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Old April 16, 2011, 10:24 AM   #1
mnero
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This is why I have a problem with all this HD talk.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42621540


The guy shoots some poor smuck for accidently pulling into his driveway, then he barracades himself in his house and the police are forced to arrest him. Now an innocent man, looking for his friends house, is in critical condition and police officers lives were placed in jeapordy, because of the long standoff. All in the name of home defense.

For G*d sakes defend your families, but we are not served well, by obsessing on this subject. I fear too many people are sitting around, polishing their guns, just waiting for it to happen; itching for it to happen.
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Old April 16, 2011, 10:28 AM   #2
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The police officer didn't kill anyone and I suspect that behind this story is a mentally ill man, not a man who was merely a firearms and self-defense kind of guy.
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Old April 16, 2011, 10:33 AM   #3
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Maybe he was a nut, probably. You see I have a job, where occasionally, I knock on a wrong door, forget the drive way and more then once I have had a pistol put in my face or pointed in my direction. No one fired or even looked like they were really expecting to or wanted to, but it worries me, lol. I don't carry on my job. I am certain 99% of our poster are responsible and restrained in their defense of their dwellings; it is the 1% that worries me

I have posted, sevral times, how I don't trust the police; I don't, but I want to be clear: I RESPECT them for what they do and don't do(restraint is a tough and potentially dangerous thing) and I like cops just fine. The ones I know are regular guys who do a very irregular and very demanding job.
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Old April 16, 2011, 10:41 AM   #4
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I too sometimes believe that there are a number of posters who spend way to much time on the internet feeding their Walter Mitti dreams. I also believe that these folks make up a VERY Small percentage of gun owners and members of this or other forums. I also feel that some of the “scenarios” are so far out that they would never happen.

All of the above being said, I still believe that proper training and or exchanging ideas is one of the best ways to avoid a tragic situation you are referring to. So, I scan many of the posts, really read a few, and seldom do I offer advice. I take much of the advice offered here cafeteria style, I.e. look at if something looks good try it, if not move on to the next item.
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Old April 16, 2011, 10:44 AM   #5
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So because of this "article" everyone talking about HD is lumped into the crazy "get off my lawn or die" catagory?
I've had people pull into my driveway looking for some place. I have yet to fire on them. In fact, I've never even had to display a firearm. Seems to me your trying to paint us all with a pretty broad brush.
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Old April 16, 2011, 11:16 AM   #6
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I think I did give credit to 99% of us as responsible; is that really everyone. 99% means 1% i have concerns about 1 PERCENT read my post before you jump all over them; please!
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Old April 16, 2011, 02:09 PM   #7
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I'll be starting a new job May 1 that will involve visiting farmers' homes over a wide area. I plan to make sure they know I'm coming and what time to expect me. Beyond that, I'm not real worried about a confrontation arising from arriving at the wrong house or becoming lost and stopping for directions. Most rural residents are less aggressive about such things than urban dwellers who are constantly harrassed by hoodlums. That said, I would actually expect a farmer to be more actively protecting his property but less likely to blast away w/o knowing the details.
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Old April 16, 2011, 02:31 PM   #8
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I expect you'll we fine. I lived in Feyette County Ill. for awhile, in the middle of farm country. We all had shot guns, but like you said, no one is looking to shoot anyone. I always left my door unlocked there, I did live on my sisters RV camp though and it is very quiet there. Unfortunately my job requires knocking on doors in central maryland about 20 miles north west of Baltimore city
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Old April 16, 2011, 03:39 PM   #9
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"For G*d sakes defend your families, but we are not served well, by obsessing on this subject. I fear too many people are sitting around, polishing their guns, just waiting for it to happen; itching for it to happen."

How am I to infer 99% to 1% out of that statement? 1% equals "Too many people...", I was unaware of that. Furthermore, how am I to get a "sane" home defense lesson out of the listed article? Some unstable guy goes batpoop on a random stanger, and HD discussion is somehow called into question?
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Old April 16, 2011, 03:49 PM   #10
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If you had read post #3 you would have not needed to infer. It could not be more explicitly written. Your comment was posted after that. As for HD dwelling on tactics is not very helpful. A reliable weapon, a basic exit plan(if practical, in many houses it just isn't, especially apartments), good nerves and aim and lots of range time is all you can realistically do, unless you are a police officer or a commando or someone else who is forced to face dangerous situations in order to do their jobs.
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Old April 16, 2011, 04:36 PM   #11
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What a tragedy.

Both the linked article and this thread.
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Old April 16, 2011, 05:01 PM   #12
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Any time you go on somebody's property uninvited, you should be wary. It just makes sense. You should also expect some percentage of homeowners to show you a firearm while they ask you to explain your trespass.
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Old April 16, 2011, 05:20 PM   #13
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yeah I never got too upset the few times I have been greeted by a weapon; I left, well I did every time but the one time I had the right place. Now greeting someone you are expecting with a loaded 44 revolver is just plain rudebut I got over it.
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Old April 16, 2011, 09:59 PM   #14
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I am more afraid of some of the keyboard commandos here far more than i am of the bad guys. Some people on the board are paranoid and that scares me. They precieve everything as a threat and are armed. Some of them with 3 guns and a boat load of ammo. I never carried more than my M-16 and a .45 when i was in the Marines in a war zone
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Old April 16, 2011, 10:03 PM   #15
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Well living in an apartment complex is an interesting deal for me. Strangers knock on my door ALL the time. I actually on one occasion was standing naked in my living room (getting boxers out of the dryer...I don't about anyone else, but when it is winter time nothing beats a fresh pair right out of the dryer..oh all of my roommtes were gone as well), and the door was flung open by an "intruder" who turned out to be a VERY sexy female I had never seen in my life. She was told she was roomming in MY aparatment, but she had the number off and was the level above me. Yes my upstairs neighbor who I see all the time has seen me in nothin but what God graced me with upon my birth.

Lesson there is a)lock the door lol. b)dont stand naked in the living room c)mistakes can happen.

But on a serious note the situation all depends on HOW the person enters the area and MOST people on this site probably know that. But not everyone does and I am sure you know that.

@KGPCR:
I understand, but don't mistake being well armed for being crazy lol. I plan on owning as many guns as a wife allows(so basically how many lies about the price can I get away with and how many excuses I can make up lol), but I will only be relying on the trusty 870 and my 9mm for self defense. Everything else is for play.
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Old April 16, 2011, 10:46 PM   #16
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Here's a little piece of advice. If your not invited, stay off other peoples property. Most do not like supprise guests or uninvited strangers.

Jim
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Old April 17, 2011, 06:37 AM   #17
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If you are a door to door salesman then you gotta expect grief. No one likes cold-call door to door.

If you’re calling on leads you need to get directions before hand. Get house description and what kind of car is parked outside, if one is. Of course, you should know the correct address.

Don’t get too upset about things you read in some forums because we have a lot of who I believe are Forum Ninjas who would probably pee their pants in a real show down. Although TFL seems to have a more reasonable group of participants. I don’t see a lot of Forum Ninja talk on this site—some at times.

As for the article in the OP, it’s a bit dicey to pull into anyone’s driveway at 9:30 PM and not know where you are. If 9:30 PM is your normal visiting time then you had better know where to go or change your visiting hours.
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Old April 17, 2011, 06:44 AM   #18
Vt.birdhunter
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Quote:
This is why I have a problem with all this HD talk
I dont understand, some loony opens fire without provocation, and this has to due with HD discussions here because.........?

Please dont throw the rest of us into the same category as the shooter in question.

Quote:
I still believe that proper training and or exchanging ideas is one of the best ways to avoid a tragic situation you are referring to
Darn right, chance favors the prepared mind.
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Old April 17, 2011, 08:33 AM   #19
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Leaving one's house to fire on someone who did not present a viable threat is not home defense, not self defense, and not defensible in any way. Discussions on this forum, and current laws governing the use of firearms, make it clear that responsible ownership and use of firearms preclude such actions.
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Old April 17, 2011, 09:20 AM   #20
mnero
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I don't think it is reasonable to assume this person was unstable. He may well have been, but the odds would actually support a more mundane explination. He was drunk or just very anger over a non-related problem or just a 'hyper-vigiliant' person. These are far more common then a mental illness so extreme that you would lose your sense of reality or what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'. So my problem is the 'hyper vigiliance' we had one poster who suggested he puts his hand in his 'gun pocket' any time he is near someone he doesnt know. I doubt the poster is unstable, but really would any of you feel the need to clutch a weapon because you were near someone you don't know? If so then you may well be the next 'nut job' that we read about. I assume as I have already posted that 99% of us would not feel the need to clutch a pistol just because we were talking to a stranger! So maybe you all see my concern now? You don't have to be crazy or 'evil' to make the mistake the person in this article did.
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Old April 17, 2011, 09:28 AM   #21
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Jim I wish I could, but my job demands that I disobey your otherwise very prudent advice. My advice is to read the post by the fella that survived combat with nothing but his M-16 and a .45 semi-auto pistol. I made it with just the pistol, medics don't get m-16, especially navy corpsman. It has been my experience that the Navy doesnt trust us 'sailors' with too many small arms To the guy who wants to own as many guns as his wife will allow; me too!~ I love to collect, expecially lever action rifles, and I love to shoot! I wish I could buy near every rifle I see, but like you said there is the wife to consider LOL
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Old April 17, 2011, 09:35 AM   #22
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Quote:
You don't have to be crazy or 'evil' to make the mistake the person in this article did.
Crazy, of ill intent, poor training, poor discipline, insufficient knowledge of firearm laws, all combine badly with guns. The discussions that take place on forums like this are, for the majority of the participants, part of the educational process that decreases the risk of such things happening. It seems to me that your problem should not be with "HD talk" but perhaps with people who do not talk and think about responsible use of firearms in self defense.
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Old April 17, 2011, 09:40 AM   #23
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tailgator; you are right! The title of this post was poorly chosen. Discussions on the subject can only serve to illustrate the positive and negative aspects of this topic. If it weren't for my job I doubt I would be so concerned. I can't imagine having to do what the police and other goverment agents have to do as part of there job; they must have better nerves then me
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Old April 17, 2011, 09:52 AM   #24
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Here's a little piece of advice. If your not invited, stay off other peoples property. Most do not like supprise guests or uninvited strangers.

Jim
Brother, you ain't kidding.

I did 12 years as the investigator for a prosecuting attorney and one of my duties was to locate, run down and serve 'reluctant' witnesses, who local deputies/process servers had failed to serve. This job took me everywhere from the ghettos of KC and St.Louis to 'deliverance country'. On a couple of the latter I discovered that the locals not only knew where these people were, they just flat weren't serving them. So I went alone, on the authority of a special process server appointment (good statewide) and only called the locals when things went to hell in a half-second.

In the worst areas, I learned to get in and out before 0900. Usually by the time they figured out what happened, I was already six miles down the Interstate
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Old April 17, 2011, 10:25 AM   #25
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I carry all day and have a gun on a nightstand at night, what I do not understand is why anyone answers the door at all? Unless it is a fireman or a policeman in uniform on my doorstep or a neighbor or family or friend or some little kid with parent selling girl scout cookies or boy scout popcorn, I never answer the door, I just figure it is someone up to no good with something I don't want or need. I would not shoot anyone unless they broke into my home.

I also never answer the phone, unless I recognize the number or they leave a message and I am interested in talking to them, I never answer the phone.

I also never answer or even open unsolicited or suspicious emails.

After surviving Nam I no longer go looking for trouble.
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