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Old April 15, 2011, 06:23 PM   #1
ZVP
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What does defarbed mean? (N/T)

??
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Old April 15, 2011, 06:29 PM   #2
Bishop Creek
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It generally means that the proof and date marks along with the manufactuers name have been filed off of an Italian black powder gun. Many do it to make them look more authentic.
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Old April 15, 2011, 06:34 PM   #3
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Removing all those 'nasty' Pietta stampings from the sides of the gun barrel to improve the aesthetics. ;p
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Old April 15, 2011, 06:47 PM   #4
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Do defarbed firearms hold any special value in the eyes of a collector? Or is it just for folks who enjoy reenactment? Thanks.
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Old April 15, 2011, 07:43 PM   #5
ZVP
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Thankyou!

I love the english language! Words can be made up so easilly!
OK now I see!
I've learned to just look past the Proof and Mfg marks I consider them aq nasty necessity. I just wish they'd move thebaqrrel markings under the bbl as Ruger has done! It cleans up the gun a LOT!
Thanks a lot for explaining that!
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Old April 15, 2011, 08:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Do defarbed firearms hold any special value in the eyes of a collector? Or is it just for folks who enjoy reenactment? Thanks.
No extra value. Some people, the dishonest ones, do it for profit to fool the unsuspecting who thinks they are getting a gen-u-wine Civil War or Revolutionary War gun.

Quote:
I love the english language! Words can be made up so easilly!
OK now I see!
Yep, it is just a matter of looking past the cransilstats and fibilities and you can extragragitate anything you want to in the English language.

The Doc is out now.
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Old April 15, 2011, 10:39 PM   #7
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OK, that's the meaning,
What does the word "DEFARB" stand for ?
Is it an abbreviation, a contraction, a....what ??
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Old April 15, 2011, 10:55 PM   #8
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In essence the word defarb is to reverse or undue something that is considered to be farby or farb.
To defarb is to make something acceptable that to some folks is considered to be unacceptable.


Part of the definition of the word farb:

Quote:
Farb is a derogatory term used in the hobby of historical reenacting in reference to participants who exhibit indifference to historical authenticity, either from a material-cultural standpoint or in action. It can also refer to the inauthentic materials used by those reenactors.
Also called "polyester soldiers,"[1] farbs are reenactors who spend relatively little of their time or money maintaining authenticity with regard to uniforms, accessories, objects or period behavior. The 'Good Enough' attitude is pervasive among farbs, although even casual observers may be able to point out flaws.
Farbiness is dependent upon context as well as expectations and is somewhat subjective. For example, while a "mainstream" reenactor might accept an object that looks right from a spectator perspective, a "progressive" or "hard core" reenactor might consider the object to be farb if it's not made in a historically accurate manner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farb_(reenactment)
Part of the definition of the pre-fix de:
Quote:
4. reverse the action of; undo: defrost, decode

http://www.yourdictionary.com/de-prefix

Last edited by arcticap; April 15, 2011 at 11:01 PM.
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Old April 16, 2011, 03:35 AM   #9
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Thanks Arcticap
Now I see..
So, as DrLaw explained, it's an extragragitation ??
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Old April 16, 2011, 06:43 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrLaw
Quote:
Do defarbed firearms hold any special value in the eyes of a collector? Or is it just for folks who enjoy reenactment? Thanks.
No extra value. Some people, the dishonest ones, do it for profit to fool the unsuspecting who thinks they are getting a gen-u-wine Civil War or Revolutionary War gun.

Quote:
I love the english language! Words can be made up so easilly!
OK now I see!
Yep, it is just a matter of looking past the cransilstats and fibilities and you can extragragitate anything you want to in the English language.

The Doc is out now.

You well only fool a fool by simply removing the marking from a Italian made revolver. The dishonesty is when the revolver is remarked like a original and then represented as an original. This is not a defarbed revolver, it's a counterfeit revolver. Some people have become very adapt at aging and remarking guns but a close examination well normally reveal the truth. Things like the thread pitch of screws is a dead giveaway.

I know of at least one gunsmith that specializes in defarbing and remarking civil war period fire arms. It's very well done, very expensive and is marked as a defarb. These fire arms can command a price manyl times higher than the MSRP.

I've sold a few of the revolvers I have defarbed, advertised as defarbed I received about twice what a non defrab would have brought.

Some people just do not like the bill board appearance and are willing to pay extra for a defarb. Uberti has got better at putting most of the bill board on the bottom of the revolver, major improvement in appearance.
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Old April 16, 2011, 08:32 AM   #11
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I was just mentioning it for a fellow who did not know the meaning. I know that some defarb for the sake of defarbing, but I was not lumping you into the dishonest category there, MCB.

The Doc is out now.
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Old April 18, 2011, 04:25 PM   #12
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The term "farb" is now ancient among reenactors. It comes from the statement that goes, "Far be it for me to comment on someone else's equipment, but..."

"Far be" = Farby. Something is said to be "farby" if it is inauthentic. To de-farb something is to make it appear more authentic.

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Old April 18, 2011, 04:35 PM   #13
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Here are a couple of my defarbed revolvers:





To the uninitiated, they appear to be originals - but to the knowledgeable, they are far from it
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Old April 18, 2011, 06:47 PM   #14
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Fingers I don't care what they call it. I think your pistoles look grate. as long as someone isn't pulln the wool over your eyes selln a pice it makes the gun look authentick and that's good.Thanks for the pics.
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Old April 18, 2011, 07:37 PM   #15
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I don't study the field but even so, I have seen two rather obvious fakes being passed off as originals. One sold high at an auction. The other was on a gun show table.

The expert's defarb is the amateur's fake.

I was once told that if I did not know enough to sort out the fakes and reworks, I should save my money. The collectors and speculators see no reason for the seller to accurately describe his merchandise.
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Old April 18, 2011, 09:34 PM   #16
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"Farby" also means historically inaccurate. For example, using a Zouave rifle.
Although they are period, there is NO evidence they were ever issued to anybody. And yes, polyester or at least non-wool uniforms, "kepis" with shiny brims, post Civil War insignia, etc. At one RevWar I kidded one reenactor, he did a pretty good rifleman's impression but he had a percussion cap rifle.
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Old April 19, 2011, 07:00 AM   #17
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The difficulties of reenacting make real life simple and easy, sort of. I've often wondered if reenactors feel the urge to "progress," in the sense that the original people did. In other words, the world in 1865 was not the same world as 1861, no more than 1945 being the same as 1940. Things change, including fads and fashions, equipment, and so on.

While I doubt there is particular collector interest in replicas that have had importer's marks removed, there is some interest in replica firearms. Remember, the first guns that might be called replicas appeared in the 1950s, well before the Civil War thing. Great Western was producing Single Action Army revolver copies with some improvements quite early. There were rumors of updated Remington double derringers, too, but I don't know if any of them ever made it to market. This was at a time when a lot of things we weep for now were still available down at the local gun emporium, if you could afford them and if they actually had any. Things like Colt revolvers, all those S&W large frame revolvers, Winchester lever actions (all pre-64, too) and even Savage lever actions.

Gun magazines (which were a new thing) had occasional articles about someone producing copies of Civil War revolvers and how collectors would beg them not to. So concerns about fakes have been around as there have been collectors, if not before. Beware of imitations and copyright infringements.
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Old April 19, 2011, 07:08 PM   #18
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Part of the fun of reenacting-for me at least-is getting the details right.
A fellow RevWar reenactor pointed out to me that some of the "hardcore" types who go shoeless and wrap their feet in burlap are farbs because burlap wasn't introduced until 1840 or so. WWII uniforms changed rather markedly in
4-5 years-look at a photo of troops in field uniforms from 1941 and compare it with one in 1945. They changed very markedly when I was in the Army 1967-1971. When I enlisted in 1967 the long sleeved khaki shirt worn with a tie and shoulder patches had just been declared obsolete, we wore short sleeved khaki shirts with no shoulder patches. My BCT cycle still had the black and gold US Army over the left pocket but subdued name tapes over the right, some of the cadre just back from Vietnam proudly wore their sundbued insignias including chevron on the sleeves, when I got there we wore pin on rank insignia on our collars-and not when we were in the field. By 1969 subdued insignia and patches were Army wide standard.
In the case of Civil War reenacting, getting correct New York State buttons-i.e. Civil War and not later vintage- brought gladness to the hearts of reenactors who did New York impressions.
And those of us who have served know that in the military you use what they issue and not what you'dlike to have.
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Old April 19, 2011, 07:49 PM   #19
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I started reenacting back in 84, did many time periods since then, I haven't done any reenacting in a little over 7 years now. I'll take de-farbing serious when the "gotta have it perfect" and the "those stampings ruin my experience" crowd tell the ATF to kiss their a** and defarb their Uberti 1860 Henrys for civil war reenacting and 1873 Winchesters for CAS . I mean if it really is that big a deal then why stop with a 58 caliber 1863 Springfield, I mean the model 1860 Henry is actually an older more antiquated model, by 3 years anyway LOL

I do know the legality here but I'm just saying, I bought my first Uberti Henry in 88 or 89 and potrayed the 7th Ill who came thru and fought all over my area. The Uberti was serial number 00035 and if it had been legal I still wouldn't have paid someone to grind off the factory markings.
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Old April 19, 2011, 11:27 PM   #20
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Well I certainly learned a heck of a lot from this thread!
Thanks for the education guys! I now understand the origonal question and a lot about reenactors!
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Old April 20, 2011, 06:32 AM   #21
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I remember the time in the army when you had to get your long sleeve khaki shirts shortened and when subdued sleeve insignia came in. Then later, in the National Guard, rank (if you had any) insignia was on the collar of your fatigue shirt, but I was out before the wash and wear fatigues were issued.

Mostly the thing in "real life," especially in the army, is to have the latest thing. Motion pictures, on the other hand, when depicting current events with regards to the military, especially foreign military, sometimes are a little behind the times because of the very real shortages of up to the minute gear. That's why the Germans in movies made during WWII sometimes had World War One helmets.

For most of us, there hasn't been a movie that show much of what the army was like when we served, if any movie ever did. There were parts of "We were soldiers once" (is that the right name) that were so correct and familiar that it was a little disturbing. I never saw "Gardens of Stone" but I think that was the right time period for my army experience.

A lot of historical periods are very interesting to me and I'm only thinking of ones in the last 250 years in this country. But hardly all of them had anything to do with war or the military. I don't think anyone re-enacts the Gold Rush of 1898--or 1849 for that matter. But those periods, brief as they were, are fascinating and there is some firearm history in there somewhere, too.

One of the interesting things about the British Army is that although they keep introducing new things, they never seem to stop using the old things. Supposedly windproof smocks in tan were issued for the Gulf War that had been manufactured in WWII. Probably just a rumor.
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Old May 15, 2011, 10:05 PM   #22
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I was always taught that FARB stood for " Foolish and reckless B'strds" No care for historic accuracy etc. To make as accurate as possible is to un-FARB
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Old May 16, 2011, 06:08 AM   #23
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Sometimes reenactors use historically correct and perfectly accurate items and are unaware of some of the details, not that they necessarily need to be. After all, when the originals were being manufactured and issued two hundred years ago, that was the business of the manufacturer, not the fellow who would up with it.

For instance, canteens or water bottles used during the Revolutionary War period were mostly made of wood, not necessarily the best material for carrying liquid around in. There was little better at the time, however. The inside was generally coated with tar or pitch, or so I am led to believe. It affected the taste of the water no doubt but helped preserve the wood. I was speaking to a re-enactor a year or two at some gathering on the green in front of the governor's palace in Williamsburg a year or two ago. He was totally unaware of what was inside his canteen (other than water) but did admit it "tasted funny."

Another thing we sometimes have trouble with is the fact that most of the equipment used during the revolution (and most other wars) was essentially issued new and was not two hundred years old.
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