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Old August 25, 2011, 04:01 PM   #426
FrankenMauser
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...Finally put some rounds through the GP100 today.

What a fantastic package. The Blackhawk is great, but I think I like the GP100 even more.

I made it a stainless revolver day at the range, with the GP100, Blackhawk, and S&W 642 (.38 Special). Everything was shot side-by-side.
Both Rugers are easy to control; and muzzle blast and flash are so close I can't tell the difference (even against the wall, at an indoor range). But the 642 sure does let you know it went bang, even with average loads. With the Hornady +P stuff I was shooting in the 642, the SP101 seems comatose with hot .327s (compared side-by-side with Rem 125 gr JHP +Ps in the 642 in the past, but not today). The blast and flash are unreal, for a .38 Special. And they're supposed to be using "low flash" powders...


It wasn't the best day for accuracy testing (bad tremor day, and only 3 hours of sleep), but I was very surprised at the result.

18 yards
5 shots each
American Eagle 100 gr SP
Slow fire (approx 2 sec intervals)
Sitting

The Blackhawk was the baseline:


The GP100 was put up against it:


Yea... exactly the same group size, 1.563". No complaints here.
I could easily call a flyer for each group, but I shot what I shot. There's no point in making excuses.

All the dry firing I've done over the last few days has really paid off. I have a much better feel for the trigger, and it smoothed out tremendously (but was pretty decent, to start with).

The GP was also able to fire .32 S&W without issue. So, that's a nice bonus. I had already written it off as unlikely, due to the DA design.
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Old August 29, 2011, 11:11 PM   #427
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Alright guys,

Got a question for you who have been following this thread. I decided not to start a new thread or poll because those who pay attention to the .327 have mostly congregated here for a very long time.

So, my question to you all is this: What do you think the odds are of Ruger trying to take back some of the business headed to Bowen Classic Arms for conversion work by introducing a Single Six chambered from the factory for the .327?

I wrote to Ruger's CS folks over a week ago to ask this question (before I make the significant investment of having Bowen convert one of the old .32 H&R Magnum Single Sixes for me.) If possible I'd like to save the money and get what I need direct from the factory, but despite their promise to send me an answer within tree business days all they've given me so far is silence.

Now I'm not naive enough to think that Ruger would spill the beans to me about an upcoming release, so I bring the same question to you.

Do you think there is either the market or the will for a factory .327 Single Six? For my part I can't think of anything I'd rather see them make. It would make a near perfect camp gun and I hope they do it, and soon, but I wonder if they ever will.

Opinions?
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Old August 30, 2011, 01:24 AM   #428
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I don't think they'll do it. I think the pressure level is beyond what Ruger considers a safe threshold for the frame/cylinder. (Just an opinion, I have absolutely zero data to back it up.)

I used to be gung-ho about a Single Six in .327 Federal. ...But I have the Blackhawk and GP100, now. Although I might be able to find a way to squeeze a S&W or the SP101 into the family, I don't think I'd go for the Single Six (without having quite a bit of excess "gun money").

I mention that, because I think quite a few shooters are in the same situation. They scratched the .327 itch (with a Blackhawk, SP101, GP100, or one of the other offerings), and would have to do some work to convince themselves that they can justify the Single-Six as well.

I don't see Ruger offering one. Maybe U.S. Firearms will.
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Old August 30, 2011, 08:19 AM   #429
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I'm not sure Ruger would do it and frankly, I don't care if they do. I'm a big fan of the .32's and think the .327 will be just fine. But to me the Single Six in .32H&R is almost as good as it gets. A perfect balence between size, weight and power and recoil. It's not a big game or SD gun but it's a fun range toy and a great trail gun just the way it is. You want more power, get the Blackhawk, GP, CA, etc or jump up to the .357. I'll keep my Single Six just the way it is in .32 H&R thank you very much. I don't know what I gain by pushing the Single Six to .327.

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Old August 30, 2011, 12:21 PM   #430
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LK, I can't entirely disagree with you. My .32 "Vaqueritos" are some of my very favorite sixguns just they way they are. OTOH, I admit I've ballyhoo'd a long time exhorting Ruger to "do the right thing" with a .327 SS,...I'd probably bite if only to save face ...and I think it'd make (even more of) a humdinger of a trail gun. It just might finally put the .327 over the top in achieving "legitimacy" among the broader gun buying public. I also see more .327-anything as a good thing, if only to help keep the sometimes just smoldering.32 H&R fires burning out there also!



I've been reluctant to send my .32 H&Rs off to Bowenclementshartongallagherland, not only due to cost which admittedly has been primary, but also like you, I think they're pretty near as perfect a blend of handiness, balance, POW and charm just the way they are.

Despite Bowen's (et al) confidence in the .327 conversion and hence the SS frame (which I also have full confidence in), I think Ruger may feel it's touchy enough--in their corporolegal minds--to let the conversion boys be. I think it might be more likely we'd see a special Lipsey's run of six or seven shot .327/.32-20 convertible NVs and Flattops--like USFA did a year or so ago with their regular Single Action--just to give us addicts something new to play with. That too would be sweet. Ya never know though, they finally (finally) came around with the .44 Special.
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Old August 30, 2011, 12:46 PM   #431
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Excellent thoughts, gentlemen. Thank you for sharing them.

I'm intrigued by the idea that the Single Six in .32 H&R Magnum may already be the perfect small game/trail gun and that we should all leave well enough alone. I've certainly had similar thoughts recently, especially when looking at the prices of doing a conversion.

Although, to be "as good as it gets" in a trail gun I think it would definitely have to be shooting reloads, not the Ten-X and Ultramax stuff that's available out there now. I'm just not sure how a 78 grain bullet moving at 650 fps qualifies as a "Magnum" round...but I digress.

What I really wanted to say, or rather ask, is this: Supposing that Ruger is not going to introduce a .327 Single Six, which appears likely, what are the odds of them re-introducing the .32 Single Six? Would they risk doing that if it had a tendency to pull attention, and sales, away from their big marketing campaign of the three current .327 models?

Thanks for your thoughts and your patience.

Oh, and gak, are those wood grips factory? I thought the little "Vaqueritos" all came with the fake ivory. Very nice.
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Old August 30, 2011, 01:24 PM   #432
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Threedogdad said:
"Oh, and gak, are those wood grips factory? I thought the little "Vaqueritos" all came with the fake ivory. Very nice."

Thanks Threedog. They're current factory Rosewood laminates for XR3 Red (Old (large) Vaquero, Blackhawk, Single Six)--not on website but on inquiry (NH office) can get.

The Vaqueritos came with a variety of grips. A lot of the XR3 Red-framed guns (like most I've had) were the standard plain Ruger Walnut or Rosewoods--I forget which. A lot of the short-framed (aka short XR3 Red or KXR3?) ones were the faux ivories IIRC. Contrary to popular myth, Ruger built "Vaqueritos" with both the standard and short grips, often sold side-by-side confusing a lot of buyers. It's true, for awhile, the short ones predominated.

Another tidbit: For a long time now, Ruger's also been mis-describing a similar set of silver/black wood (or some such) laminate XR3 Reds on their website that ARE also available for the Single Six (and hence large framed Vaqs and BHs). I haven't looked the past two weeks, when I re-informed them of their ongoing goof,...but they had been describing them as "Single Six only with square triggerguard and 10 inch barrel" or some such. No such factory Single Six exists with that combination, and they acknowledged that. Hopefully they've finally corrected. Nice set of grips anyway.

Last edited by gak; August 30, 2011 at 01:36 PM.
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Old August 30, 2011, 02:08 PM   #433
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I had to laugh when you said, "their big marketing campaign of the three current .327 models..."

I think Ruger would be more likely to re-introduce the .32 H&R Single Six than to introduce a .327 Federal Single Six. And I don't think they are likely to do either.

Simply put, bottom line... Ruger has bigger fish to fry. At this point, I truly feel fortunate that they continue to produce the three .327's that they make now. Almost all of these big gun makers are in business to make a killing with huge sales. I believe Ruger thinks that the .327 very much missed the hoped-for target with sales... thanks in large part to the effort of Federal/ATK and the timing for the intro of it. (the Barackolypse did a heap for gun and ammo sales, but it royally hurt the .327 Federal with it's timing)

Ruger is focused on things like the SR9, SR40 and SR-1911. The other stuff gets produced because the machinery is in place for it and it doesn't hurt them to produce and sell it.

To come up with something new... or to re-intro something old... either of which is based on the "outlook" of the .327 Federal Magnum is probably not something that the board of directors would approve at any meeting. There's just not a huge slew of dollar signs attached to the project.

Sorry if my take is pessimistic.

But from what I've heard on here and in person from folks who have worked with Hamilton Bowen (and I gent I met at a local range who knows the man personally), you should not keep losing sleep over whether or not it's worth whatever investment you have considered. In my opinion... any Ruger you send to Bowen is going to come back a HELLUVA lot better than it could ever come out of Ruger.

DO IT.
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Old August 30, 2011, 02:10 PM   #434
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Quote:
It wasn't the best day for accuracy testing (bad tremor day, and only 3 hours of sleep), but I was very surprised at the result.
Show off. Eighteen yards, with tremors, off hand, one group with a totally new-to-you handgun, and you shoot inch & a half groups?

Or was this rested shooting?

If you shot it standing, unsupported... most folks can't pull that off.
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Old August 30, 2011, 04:16 PM   #435
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Show off. Eighteen yards, with tremors, off hand, one group with a totally new-to-you handgun, and you shoot inch & a half groups?

Or was this rested shooting?

If you shot it standing, unsupported... most folks can't pull that off.
Oh, no. It was rested. Standing, off-hand, in their terrible lighting, with tremors, and tired eyes... I would have had issues just hitting paper.
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Old August 30, 2011, 04:48 PM   #436
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Can you detect any appreciable difference in muzzle blast when firing .327 rounds from the 4 inch GP-100 barrel vs. the 5.5 inch Blackhawk barrel?
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Old August 30, 2011, 09:29 PM   #437
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Can you detect any appreciable difference in muzzle blast when firing .327 rounds from the 4 inch GP-100 barrel vs. the 5.5 inch Blackhawk barrel?
I couldn't detect even the slightest difference in flash (indoor range) or blast (and I was on the last lane, next to a wall). I tested 4 or 5 different reloads (.32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R), and the one factory load: AE 100 gr SP.

I am running low on 85 gr Hydra-Shoks and 115 gr Gold Dots. So, I couldn't bring myself to shoot any just for comparison (even though I took them with ).


As a side note: I was hoping for 25 yard testing. ...But all the lights were shot out, except three at about 7.5-8 yards, 12 yards, and 18-19 yards. Anywhere else, and I could barely see the target. (I won't be going back there, even though I have a free 60 day range pass, with unlimited use. )

I'm trying to get my hands on some of the 85 gr AE stuff, but I want to get it locally. If I can track some down, I'll try another indoor range that I have some range passes for (from the Blackhawk's purchase). With the upcoming cross-country move, I can't find the time to drive to my normal shooting locale (middle of the desert).
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Old August 31, 2011, 06:03 AM   #438
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Quote:
I'm trying to get my hands on some of the 85 gr AE stuff, but I want to get it locally. If I can track some down, I'll try another indoor range
Hello FrankenMauser
I have loaded some more 90 Grain Sierra Sport's Master bullets using 10.5 Grains of Accurate Arms # 7 Powder and a CCI 350 Small Magnum Powder. That was the load I used to Harvest my Large Bob Cat with, and I will set up my Chrony Meter at the range today to clock it. I will Post the results here later on for those Interested in it. The last I Loaded like this produced a Hole hole cluster at the 25 Yard line off my sand bag, I am hoping these will work the same, if my eyes and nerves are steady enough today... Hammer It
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Old August 31, 2011, 06:17 AM   #439
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Threedogdad said:
"Although, to be "as good as it gets" in a trail gun I think it would definitely have to be shooting reloads, not the Ten-X and Ultramax stuff that's available out there now. I'm just not sure how a 78 grain bullet moving at 650 fps qualifies as a "Magnum" round..."

Threedog, in the .32 H&R there's also Georgia Arms' very nice 100 gr JHP @ 1100, as well as an also nicely warm 100 gr RNFP--using new brass, averaging mid $20s (between the two) for box of 50 (+ shipping). Only problem--sporadic availability. After a two years hiatus due to component shortages, they were finally able to run some more fairly recently, but last I looked were subject to shortages again. Still, that re-start was a good sign and it's worth a regular check-in with them. Also Buffalo Bore (and someone else--escapes me) just came out with some very stout H&R JHP--but pricier than GA.

EDIT--an online check today shows GA's .32 H&R 100 gr JHP available. The RNFP is what's out due to components. I beleive this is what I must have seen earlier and not the JHP.

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Old August 31, 2011, 04:19 PM   #440
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I have loaded some more 90 Grain Sierra Sport's Master bullets using 10.5 Grains of Accurate Arms # 7 Powder and a CCI 350 Small Magnum Powder. That was the load I used to Harvest my Large Bob Cat
Good to know.
I can't find the Sierras any where, and cancelled my back order. I really want to try some, but grew tired of the perpetual procrastination. A sampling of the responses to my calls...
Spring 2010: "We hope to run them in the summer, but don't have them scheduled."
Summer 2010: "We'll run them in the Fall."
Fall 2010: "We'll run them in the Spring."
Spring 2011: "We hope to run them in the summer, but don't have them scheduled."
Summer 2011: 'We have no idea when we'll pull our heads out, and get those bullets on the production schedule.'


That single bullet is going to burn me on Sierra products, as a whole, if they don't get some to distributors.
They think it would be a low-return production run. But, if they ran 500,000 bullets... They'd sell out in less than 90 days. (I'd put money on 80% of vendors being sold out in less than 30 days, if they started shipping this Fall or Winter. Make it 45 days, if they ship in the Spring.) If they ran, say, 2 million, it might actually hold them over for a little while, while appeasing the .327 addicts.
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Old August 31, 2011, 05:26 PM   #441
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Sporadic availability of reloading components seems to be a recurring theme with this cartridge.

I recently picked up a box of 500 of the Rainier 100 grain FP plated bullets and several hundred pieces of new brass, but everything was completely sold out the next day when I was considering buying more.

It's frustrating and almost, not quite, but almost, enough to make me want to start casting my own. The only bullet I see on the shelf with any reliability is the 85 grain XTP, but I don't want to pay 17 cents per round just for the bullet of my reloads. Sort of defeats the purpose of reloading.

Has anyone tried any of the 120 grain lead bullets from Missouri Bullet Co? They always seem to be available?
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Old August 31, 2011, 05:43 PM   #442
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Seems to me that while there is demand, there isn't (or hasn't been thought to be) enough demand to 'tool up the production line' on the ammo or the components thereof. As long as the ammo is scarce, people won't warm up to the caliber, cutting off the the very demand. It seems to be a 'wicked little circle' until the "ammomeisters" take a chance on a very promising cailber.
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Old August 31, 2011, 05:54 PM   #443
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Good point, warrior poet.

I'd also like to point out that your post just now was your 327th post on this forum. A particularly appropriate number for this thread.
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Old September 1, 2011, 03:21 AM   #444
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The only bullet I see on the shelf with any reliability is the 85 grain XTP, but I don't want to pay 17 cents per round just for the bullet of my reloads. Sort of defeats the purpose of reloading.
Believe me when I say that I hear your frustration and I feel it as well.

However, it's not THAT bad. I'm paying about the same for the 85s and 100gr XTPs... I find them between $14 and $17 per hundred, then I pay sales tax on top of it.

But while it sucks to pay that much, let's not go all crazy and make it sound like it's not still freakishly cheaper than factory .327 Federal Mag. I mean... what's the cheapest you've EVER seen a box of the American Eagle ammo in .327?

I've seen the stuff as cheap as $26 a box of 50. I've also seen it (3 weeks ago!) for $35 a box at a gun store.

Now even when I pay $18 a box of for the slugs...
And if I price one single pound of powder at $24 (and I don't pay that much for powder)
And if I price my primers at $40/1000 like many shops sell them at (I buy in bulk and pay much less)

...then I'm still looking even with those exorbitant component prices at like $13.00 per box of 50.

And because I buy my powder and primers in bulk, I can roll a box of 50 rounds of .327 Federal, with 85gr XTPs pushed by Alliant 2400 and lit off with CCI small rifle primers for $11.50.

So really, I am with you on the silly cost for component bullets, but we simply can't get goofy over the economics even if we are angry and annoyed with the prices we face.

Fact is, this is a hardly-used component bullet size. Like anything, if they don't make and sell a hundred billion of them for the lion's share of their sales, it's simply going to cost more.

And it's a helluva bullet that we are getting. And it needs to be when you consider the pressure we are putting on it.

The prices -- they hurt. But until you can show me a box of American Eagle for well under $15 for 50, please don't tell me that it defeats the purpose of reloading. It's really not even close.
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Old September 1, 2011, 04:22 AM   #445
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I'm with you on the argument, Sevens. Although I feel the XTPs and Gold Dots should be cheaper, I am still willing to pay what dealers are asking. I haven't seen them beyond $16 / box in the last year. Even at $8 worth of bullets per box of reloads, it's a helluva lot better than factory ammo.

As for your question (just to continue supporting my argument of .327 ammo not being any more expensive than .357):
Quote:
But while it sucks to pay that much, let's not go all crazy and make it sound like it's not still freakishly cheaper than factory .327 Federal Mag. I mean... what's the cheapest you've EVER seen a box of the American Eagle ammo in .327?

I've seen the stuff as cheap as $26 a box of 50. I've also seen it (3 weeks ago!) for $35 a box at a gun store.
Even the over-priced shop I shot the GP100 at had .327 AE 100 gr SPs for $26 / box. In the last month, I've seen it on the shelves of two other shops for $23 / box. Right now, every .327 factory load I can find on the shelves of my local dealers is cheaper than a comparable load in .357 Mag, by $3-5 for 'standard' loads, and $5-20 for SD loads.


Based on the current price of components I am using for an 85 gr XTP (purchased in bulk at $13 / box) on top of 13.5 gr Lil' Gun, I am loading for $9.83 / box. Sixty percent cost savings is nothing to balk at. It may not be the $40 per box savings I can attain with certain "premium" rifle loads, but it sure does beat buying only factory ammo. I can shoot 1,150+ rounds of my reloads for the cost of 500 rounds of factory ammo.
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Old September 1, 2011, 08:28 AM   #446
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Quote:
I can roll a box of 50 rounds of .327 Federal, with 85gr XTPs pushed by Alliant 2400 and lit off with CCI small rifle primers for $11.50.

I hear you. And agree with your numbers. And agree that $11.50 is well below half the cost of factory ammo. No argument from me there.

Problem is, my son and I fired off nearly 2,000 rounds of home grown 9mm during the month of August. Using Berry's bullets, bulk powder, etc. we made them at a little under $6 a box. Wisely or not, that's the standard I think I should be able to meet loading any of these small diameter .32s as well. They are smaller, weigh less and therefore, at least in my mind, should cost less.

But that's not what I'm finding so far. The box of .32 caliber Rainier plated bullets I bought recently cost far less than XTPs, for sure, but still more than I pay for 9mms. Maybe it's not a fair comparison. I know I'm being petty and that it's not very reasonable to complain about this, given how many factories are ramped up to make 9mm components, economies of scale and all that.

It's just that I've been hoping more companies would get into the .327 Fed bullet making business and drive prices downward. There doesn't seem to be a lot of rush to do so yet. Maybe it's because the .327 is such a high velocity round that cast lead and plated bullets aren't ideally suited for it like they are in the .32 H&R. Maybe I'm simply too impatient, but we're four years into this now and still only three or four overpriced factory loads and very, very little in the way of plinking level components. I know...too impatient. Give it time. But it's Thursday and I probably just need something to grumble about.

Montana Gold...are you listening?
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Old September 1, 2011, 09:08 AM   #447
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Hello
Deer season is approaching Fast, so I hand loaded some ammo for my S&W Model 16-4. Hamilton Bowen Modified it from it's .32 H&R Magnum Cartridge Factory form, to it's new Federal .327 Magnum cartridge a couple of years ago. I harvested a large Tennessee Bobcat with it in the Past, but now I want to try it out on Deer. I loaded a Round that has Proven it's accuracy Potential in the past and it shined again for me. This load consists of a Sierra 90 Grain Sport's Master Bullet with a Hollow Point design. I used Accurate Arms # 7 Powder dispensed at 10.5 Grains and a CCI-350 Small Pistol Magnum primer with an AOL of 1.500" and heavy crimp. I also Put together a Heavy Target Load using a Rainier 100 Grain Hollow point bullet & Hornady HS-6 Powder dispensed at 7.7 Grains with a Standard Winchester small Pistol primer and medium crimp. I took my Chrony velocity meter with me to the range and set it up to see exactly what these two loads were clocking. The velocity of the 90 Grain Sierra Sports Master bullet's showed to be 1630 F.P.S., while the Rainier bullet Target load showed to be a consitent 1350 F.P.S. The Sierra Bullet load extracted fine and showed to have Moderate medium flatness to the primers. The Rainier Bullet load extracted fine and showed milder primer flatness. Both Load's were shot from a Plastic Pistol Rest as shown at the 25 Yard line and I was Pleased with the accuracy of Both Loads. I feel I could increase the Sierra Load some more with out pressure issues, and will do so my next trip to the Range.The spent Cases showed to be super clean in nature as far as the powder used being the Accurate Arm's # 7 Powder, but the Hodgen HS-6 showed some soot to it's spent cases. I retrieved the slugs shown by the targets they were shot with, and as you would suspect the Sierra 90 Grain Hollow point bullet expanded Very much compared to The Rainier copper flashed hollow point bullets. I will work some more with the Sierra Bullet load to see if increasing it's velocity help's or hurts the accuracy. The Load information I have shown here was from my Past experience of working up the Federal .327 magnum cartridge. Loads of this nature or velocity should be shot from a Heavy frame Gun as my S&W is, for those that would like to work on their own loads I can't express enough caution when working with this round, start at least 15% lower than what I have shown here and pay close attention to high pressure signs as you slowly work up with it. In other word's, I aint Responsible if you Blow up your gun or hurt Your self load this round carefully starting lower and working up to Maximum Level's....




The F-1 Chrony bullet Trap Meter set Up and a Pistol Rest in Position










The Six shot Results from the Sierra 90 Grain Sport's Master bullet load










The spent Cartidges of the Sierra Bullet load showing medium to heavy flatness to the primers













Four Sierra 90 Grain Slugs recovered from the Dirt Berm behind the Target stand's. A Special note while looking for these slugs I passed by Many .357 and .45 ACP Bullets in the Dirt. I could only find Four Sierra slugs as I dug 10" in the Berm Dirt for them













This Target was also Six shot's at the 25 Yard line using the Rainier 100 Grain Hollow point Bullets. It's accuracy was very close to The Sierra bullet load










These are the Rainier Hollow point 100 Grain Bullet's that I found in the Dirt Berm. Note they kept most of their actual weight when recovered compared to The Sierra bullets these seemed to hold up better but did not expand near as much. They too were far past any other slugs I found in the dirt berm being .357 & .45 ACP slugs




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Old September 1, 2011, 03:05 PM   #448
Sevens
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Quote:
Wisely or not, that's the standard I think I should be able to meet loading any of these small diameter .32s as well. They are smaller, weigh less and therefore, at least in my mind, should cost less.
Sorry, but it's flawed. This is not how mass production works in any industry.

Example: .25 Auto, .32 Auto, .380 Auto.
Which of these is as cheap as factory 9mm auto ammunition?

Afterall, each of them uses less brass to build the cartridge case, right?
Every one of these uses a smaller, lighter slug with less lead and copper, correct?
Certainly, each of them uses less of a powder charge, hmmm?

Why aren't each and every one of those cheaper than a $11 box of 9mm ammo?
It's because of the volume of 9mm that they make -- it's cheaper for every manufacturer to build, package and sell 9mm ammo because they'll sell metric tons of it. Any one of them is lucky to sell even a couple case of .25 Auto in any month.

Ever price a quart of motorcycle oil? It's like $6 or $7 a quart. Is it THAT much better than a quart of Valvoline or Pennzoil? Is it even any different?

Doesn't matter. It's all about scale.

And here, you are using a Berry's plated 9mm bullet as your example which is also flawed. Hey -- I'm a huge fans of Berry's plated. No, really. I use two styles in 9mm, .380, .40 cal, .45, .38 and their slick .30 Carbine bullet -- and YEAH, I even use some of their 71gr slugs in .32!

But you are using the example of a horribly lightly constructed plated bullet that you'd be nuts to use at 45,000 PSI in a full-bore .327 Federal Magnum load.

If you want to be realistic in your comparison, roll 2,000 rounds of 9mm using Hornady's 125 grain XTP bullet and buy them 100 at a time. In a quick search, it seems Hornady's XTP goes for about 90 cents more per hundred than their similar .312" bullet.

The other thing you can do is handload two thousand rounds of .327 Federal Magnum using the .32 cal Berry's 71 grain plated bullet. Your price will be lower than your "under $6 bucks a box" for producing 9mm.

Here's another way I can try to prove the point.

Build a car. Make sure that it's smaller than a Honda Civic. Give it less steel, less glass, less plastic, with a smaller motor, less horsepower, less weight, smaller footprint, smaller tires, smaller seats, smaller fluid capacities and make every single dimension and facet of the car smaller than a Honda Civic.

Make one of them. Hell... make a hundred of them.
Then get back to me with the cost for making them and figure out if you can beat the cost it takes Honda to make them. Take orders for them and show me your MSRP and see if you can under cut the Honda Civic and still make a profit to make it worth your time.

Unless you can make 10 million of them, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you can't pull it off.

There are countless millions of rounds of 9mm cartridges and components rolling off production lines around the clock, right at this moment. And they don't need to "tool up" to make 9mm parts and rounds.

.32 cal? They have to change a multi-use corner of the facility and tool it up to make a short run of the stuff just to produce any of it. As FrankenMauser mentioned about Sierra... sometimes, they just don't even get around to doing it. They are making a killing producing every single .224" rifle bullet they can construct. They have customers falling all over themselves to get more .224" rifle slugs.

So much that they can't seem to find the time to produce a few thousand .312" handgun slugs for the 75 guys in the world who keep shooting... talking about... and loving the .327 Federal Magnum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale
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Old September 1, 2011, 04:08 PM   #449
Billy Shears
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Sevens,

Interesting analysis, but did you even read what I wrote before you responded?

Quote:
I know I'm being petty and that it's not very reasonable to complain about this, given how many factories are ramped up to make 9mm components, economies of scale and all that.

It's just that I've been hoping more companies would get into the .327 Fed bullet making business and drive prices downward.
Quote:
Maybe it's because the .327 is such a high velocity round that cast lead and plated bullets aren't ideally suited for it like they are in the .32 H&R.

We're on the same page here. I get it. I'm just not thrilled about it. That's all.

Thanks.
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Old September 2, 2011, 02:24 AM   #450
Sevens
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I did.
But I'll say again.

There's like 75 of us who love the round. The .327 Federal is probably right near the .41 Magnum in component sales these days. Not bad, the .41 Mag has a 40 year head start. Hey, there's more of us loading and shooting .327 Federal than there are .41 AE, so at least we've got that.

I have also made a few hundred .327 Federal Mag using the BERRY'S 71 grain plated round nose and 4.9 to 5.3 grains of Bullseye. I can make those for around six bucks a box.

That's pretty close to "the standard" you think "I should be able meet."
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