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Old June 23, 2011, 01:00 PM   #301
secret_agent_man
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gak,

I was unaware of the GA Arms 32 H&R MAG round. Sounds good to go where I go. Thanks for the info.

The problem is the unavailability of a J frame snubby chambered in 32 MAG. They quit showing up used on gunbroker some time back. I kick myself now for not having bought a couple when the guns were in production. Now I'm stuck in the 38/357 mode. That's not a bad place to be stuck in by any means, but in my average low threat/no threat situation I would prefer a smaller caliber gun with more rounds, and frequently carry a eight shot 10.5 oz. Smith 317 Airlite 22LR 2" snub with a Hogue rubber monogrip in a pocket holster. It almost isn't there.
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Old June 23, 2011, 09:11 PM   #302
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Secret Agent Man said
"The problem is the unavailability of a J frame snubby chambered in 32 MAG. They quit showing up used on gunbroker some time back. I kick myself now for not having bought a couple when the guns were in production."

Not to worry (I think). I don't have the link - but keep an eye out here for an edit of this and I'll locate and post here. Don't recall if it was here on TFL or other, but a large batch of the Smith J Airweights (hammered 431 or hammerless 432, I forget which) has surfaced--competitively priced IIRC. I'm assuming these are NOS, but like some of the recent Ruger single action "clean up" runs (incl some new special distribution .32 Mag btw), some could be "silent" new production.
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Old June 23, 2011, 09:20 PM   #303
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Face it, the .32 is the Rodney Dangerfield of pistol calibers. As BillCA pointed out the .32 is no slouch. I'm a big fan of big bores but these .32's are pretty cool.
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Old June 23, 2011, 09:25 PM   #304
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Wait...wait. The SP101 in 327mag holds 6 shots?!!! Boy that is tempting.

However I can completely see how many folks wouldn't care for it. That is the only thing (far as I can tell) advantageous over the 357. It is not really a draw to be able to shoot 32H&R and 32 long. Despite what some folks are saying, ammo isn't plentiful--at least not in the sense that 38/357 is plentiful. I for one have never or very rarely seen it for sale, and I bet it's expensive.

However, I am a reloader and I carry a SP101 concealed, so it makes sense to me to have an extra shot in a platform I'm already used to. I guess it makes sense to me that there is a only a moderate market for it, given what the other options are.
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Old June 23, 2011, 09:57 PM   #305
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Quote:
That is the only thing (far as I can tell) advantageous over the 357.
You missed! Look again. Still missing?
Have you shot one?

It's the colossal difference in felt recoil and shock to the hand, wrist and arm when you shoot it.

It's not as deadly, damaging or destructive as the .357, and one of the advantages of that is that it's easier to shoot from a small revolver than is the .357 Magnum.

Until you shoot it, it's hard to see the difference... even if we keep saying it.
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Old June 23, 2011, 10:12 PM   #306
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Quote:
It's the colossal difference in felt recoil and shock to the hand, wrist and arm when you shoot it.
Kinda like a 38+P? Hey, I would love to shoot one. Like I said, it may be a good thing for me.
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Old June 23, 2011, 11:42 PM   #307
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There may be raw, mathematical figures that dispute this, but here's what I have found. No BS, just my experience. (as such, it's highly subjective, but it's what I've experienced)

158 grain .38 Special +P from my S&W Model 60, 3-inch, J-frame

vs.

115gr .327 Federal Mag Gold Dot from Ruger SP-101, 3.06" barrel.

Energy numbers heavily favor the .327. Bullet speed is so drastically different, it's not comparable. Obviously, 27% more bullet weight with the .38, which is significant. Street data? There is none that I know of regarding the .327 Federal.

Felt recoil? More uncomfortable to shoot the Model 60 with .38 Spl +P.

Grips? Grip angle? Bore axis? Mental prep? I don't have those answers... but that's how it worked out to me. The Model 60 was my own revolver and I was quite familiar with it. The SP-101 belonged to someone else.
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Old June 24, 2011, 07:24 AM   #308
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Wait...wait. The SP101 in 327mag holds 6 shots?!!! Boy that is tempting

Huntinaz, you sorta have to read the whole thread.
(One more time)

6 round SP-101 and Taurus. 1,350fps and 450#ME


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Old June 24, 2011, 08:24 AM   #309
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Quote:
Huntinaz, you sorta have to read the whole thread.
(One more time)
Yeah I skimmed it...I fully admit I didn't read all hundred pages

Quote:
Felt recoil? More uncomfortable to shoot the Model 60 with .38 Spl +P.

Grips? Grip angle? Bore axis? Mental prep? I don't have those answers... but that's how it worked out to me. The Model 60 was my own revolver and I was quite familiar with it. The SP-101 belonged to someone else.
Part of that is the SP101 vs the Mod60. I've shot both, the SP101 absorbes recoil way better. I think 38+P loads feel lighter in my SP101 than standard 38 special in a Mod 60. Still, I am curios. I'ma have to shoot a 327 Mag.
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Old June 24, 2011, 11:49 AM   #310
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Quote:
158 grain .38 Special +P from my S&W Model 60, 3-inch, J-frame
vs.
115gr .327 Federal Mag Gold Dot from Ruger SP-101, 3.06"
Whereas the 158 grain Chicago load can be shot from an Airweight, the terminal results are on par with those of the Speer 135 grain NYPD load, which in turn can be fired from an Airlite.

So from a 38 Special caliber gun approximately 14 ounces lighter than an SP101 you get about the same performance.

If you need more ballistics, they are in the 327 MAG, albeit with a considerable weight penalty.

Until Smith introduces the Airlite aluminum/scandium alloy 327 MAG Night Guard J-frame alluded to by wildalaska earlier...

Now which one is on the endangered species list?

Last edited by secret_agent_man; June 24, 2011 at 11:59 AM.
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Old June 24, 2011, 02:29 PM   #311
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Whereas the 158 grain Chicago load can be shot from an Airweight, the terminal results are on par with those of the Speer 135 grain NYPD load, which in turn can be fired from an Airlite.
It's not really on the topic of .327 Federal, but I don't like considering those loads as a good choice. With an Air-Lite/Air-Weight, you're most likely going to have a 1 7/8" barrel. That means 90% of the .38 "+P" rating is completely wasted. The short barrel neuters the cartridge badly. ...And nearly any discussion of the Air-Weights (especially Air-Lites) brings up the issue of bullets crimp-jumping. What's the point of carrying 5 rounds, if your revolver will lock up on a loose bullet after the second or third shot? And, the heavier the bullet is, the more likely it is to jump crimp.

I run Remington 125 gr JHP +P ("mountain" carry) and Hornady Critical Defense 110 gr FTX ("standard" carry) in my .38 Special Lady Smith (Air-Weight). The +P pressure level is completely wasted with the 1 7/8" barrel, but was half the price of anything with a comparable bullet. In both cases, these loads have good bullet tension, a heavy roll crimp, and the bullet has a cannelure. Crimp-jump is not an issue (for me). However, I have seen the same Remington +P load jump crimp in other light J-frames. You never know. With light weight, you must compromise.
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Old June 25, 2011, 02:08 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinaz
Yeah I skimmed it...I fully admit I didn't read all hundred pages
You should page back to Post 297 and see the energy chart I posted. The .327 Federal outperforms the .38 Special (+P included) and the 9mm. It's energy is on a par with the .40 S&W, .45 ACP and midrange .357.

If you reload, the .32 caliber is a delight for the reloader. The small, straight wall case is not much different than reloading .38/.357/.44. It requires very little powder (.32 S&W, .32 S&W Long) and even the .32 H&R requires less than most .38 loads. On the .32 Longs, the cases seem to last forever due to the low pressures. .32 H&R seem to last quite a while too unless you push the loads hard.

For what it's worth, right now my S&W 432PD sits in my desk, ready to drop in a pocket if I need to answer the front door. I have confidence that it'll stop someone at those kinds of distances.
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Old June 25, 2011, 09:45 PM   #313
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my S&W 432PD sits in my desk, ready to drop in a pocket if I need to answer the front door. I have confidence that it'll stop someone at those kinds of distances
One wonders if the 327 MAG was really necessary. Certainly not in two inch guns at close range.
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Old June 25, 2011, 10:05 PM   #314
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These things happen from time to time. Someone convinces the gun & ammo makers to introduce a new cartridge and guns to chamber it.

Occasionally, we get something that performs significantly better that the standard cartridges of the day, be it in raw power, delivery platform, fills a perceived need, etc. The .44 Magnum and .40 S&W were beneficial products of such a collaboration.

If a new cartridge does not offer significant advantages over well established predecessors, however, it is doomed to failure. It may develop enough of a following to keep a few factory loads and components available, but when the gunmakers start cutting back on models offered in a new chambering- the writing is on the wall.

When the .327 debuted, I said "Huh?" I know some of you just like the guns and cartridge, but I've made it 54 years without one and just can't bring myself to feel slighted over it.
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Old June 26, 2011, 12:53 PM   #315
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Secret Agent Man said
"One wonders if the 327 MAG was really necessary. Certainly not in two inch guns at close range."

Good point...but, let's also not forget that--as the story goes--Federal did not "develop" the H&R Mag to its full potential in the first place because of the existing H&R (company) weaker designed revolvers still on the market. So, from a primary ammo manufacturer's point of view, it didn't want the liability, and knew home re-loaders would experiment if they wanted hotter loads anyway.

S-A-M, I PM'd you btw, in case you didn't see.
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Old June 26, 2011, 03:24 PM   #316
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I think that a lot of people have a skewed perception of what constitutes a "successful cartridge".

It seems that a lot of folks think that if it's a centerfire pistol cartridge and it doesn't usurp either the .38spl, the 9mm, the .380ACP, the .40S&W, the .45ACP or the .357Mag then it's a failure.

'Tain't so. I seriously doubt that Federal had any delusions that the .327Mag would become one of the top 5 or 6 centerfire pistol cartridges sold on the market.

Bottom line is that nothing went wrong with the .327Mag. It's a cartridge that some will find very attractive but that's never going to challenge any of the really common centerfire pistol cartridges for the top spot. And I think that's pretty much what Federal's forecast for the cartridge was.
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Old June 26, 2011, 03:55 PM   #317
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Best post of the thread John. +1

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Old June 26, 2011, 07:00 PM   #318
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Many opinions, most about all but the original question-

"WHAT WENT WRONG?"

I believe this went wrong as many others. The gun makers release a 'sample' gun to several shooting mag writers. They blow it up like cracker
jack or sliced bread.

Shooter (customer) runs to the gun store and asks about it. Gun store worker thinks you just smoked something illegal and says "you mean 357!!"
And looks thru a 6++ month old gun maker catalog and doint see the red hot (but cooling fast) 327. He then tells you they will probably be in in a 'few months' and customer goes home and cools off.

Had a friend try to buy one just like I describe and cooled off, also.
Brass and ammo as some posters noted were impossible to find for many months after the gun mags evaluated the new guns.
Gun was a good fit for some who dont like the recoil of a 357-younger shooters, smaller females and lots of others.
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Old June 26, 2011, 07:31 PM   #319
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"Gun was a good fit for some who dont like the recoil of a 357-younger shooters, smaller females and lots of others"

Not exactly. The .357 has a nominal chamber pressure of 35,000. The .327 is a nominal 45,000 and that Taurus snubby will make you a believer. Younger and smaller will put it down and walk away after two shots.

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Old June 26, 2011, 10:16 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarge
When the .327 debuted, I said "Huh?" I know some of you just like the guns and cartridge, but I've made it 54 years without one and just can't bring myself to feel slighted over it.
Nor do I feel slighted by a lack of owning a .40 S&W, .44 Mag or .357 Sig.
The original 10mm caught my attention, unfortunately it seemed to eat pistol frames up rather rapidly. The .357 Sig is a one-trick pony IMHO, more suitable to police agencies issuing arms and ammo. The .41 Mags I own are plenty capable for almost anything I need done. The .22's fill most small bore needs as well.

But for no particular need, I bought a 3" .32 Long and found it brought smile to my face when shooting it. That led me to buy a .32 H&R which is substantially better -- and about bottom line for defense. The .327 has promise and intrigues me.

It's not going to replace my go-everywhere 649 or the 1911's. I do suspect that with a little "box o' truth" type testing, we'll find out it makes a dandy home defense gun. Others have already found it potent on Coyotes and fox. Ruger's 7-shot GP-100 .327 looks like an ideal, albeit heavy, woods gun, able to swap out .32 longs for casual practice, .32 H&R for small game and .327 for somewhat larger critters.
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Old June 26, 2011, 10:54 PM   #321
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Okay guys. I'm struggling here. I am about to buy a revolver for ccw/fun and can't decide whether I want to go the .327 route or the .357/.38 route.

First off, a little about me:

-Reloader
-Caster
-Not recoil sensitive, but I get my hoots from hitting what I'm aiming at, not making my hand go numb
-I like unique stuff :]
-Looking at the taurus 327, 2"

I know .357 is the practical choice, but the .327 intrigues me. In my imagination, I would be able to load up or buy the hot defensive .327s for carry, but plinking with .32 sw longs would be pretty hand-friendly, no? How are the .32 mags, recoil wise? I doubt I'd shoot many of them, but I'm just curious where they fall between the ultra low pressure(sw longs) and ultra high pressure .327 loads that gun of that chambering could handle. How is brass life of the three cartridges? Any chance of brass/loaded ammo being available any time soon?

Now, for comparisons sake, would someone mind describing the recoil characteristics of the following cartridges (maybe just rank them?) available to be fired in either a .327 or .357 of the same size, such as a taurus 605 vs 327. I'm thinking the .327 is probably snappier than the .357 due to the increase in peak pressure, but I'm also wondering how .32 sw long or .32 hr mag loads compare to .38 plinking loads.

-32 sw long
-32 hr mag
-327 fed mag
-38 spl
-38 spl +p
-357 mag

I'm just trying to get a gun that will do it a lot of different tasks and it seems like the .327 is up to that standard, it will just take more leg work to get my loading/casting setup than it would for .357.
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Old June 26, 2011, 11:25 PM   #322
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The .32 H&R's noise and recoil is about where you might expect - half way between the .32 Long and.327. Definitely enough pop to let you know it's "no .22 anything" or one of the lesser .32s, but still less sturm und drang than the average 158 gr .38 practice load. Dollars aside, you can shoot the H&R virtually all day by comparison. Try just part of an afternoon with a Detective Special shooting "standard" cast/SWC. Not that fun. (Obviously escalate that observation with virtually any .357). Not so the H&R, whether 85, 95 or 100 gr. Of course out of the Airweight, the warmer the load, the less apt you are to just "plink" with it,...but, the warmest .32 (but no experience with BB's new offering) is a pure delight out of a 4-3/4" Single Six. I would expect a similar response--but a bit more noise and kick--out of even a shorter barreled SP101, whether chambered "discretely" (ie, at most) for H&R or the .327 chambering.
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Old June 27, 2011, 05:00 AM   #323
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Quote:
First off, a little about me:

-Reloader
-Caster
-Not recoil sensitive, but I get my hoots from hitting what I'm aiming at, not making my hand go numb
-I like unique stuff :]
-Looking at the taurus 327, 2"


Hello Catzor
You have all the qualities in Place of a Person Begging to own & shoot the Federal .327 Magnum. I must warn you though that this round in a 2" snub Air-Weight style revolver will ring your bell. It's recoil in a short barrel light weight revolver is very pronounced as my S&W Model 431 chambered in .32 H&R Magnum will sting your Palm and make your Middle finger sting from it's recoil when firing it if it is hand loaded with my own Loads....so I can only Imagine what it would be like to fire the Federal .327 Magnum in a 12 OZ Gun... Hammer It
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Old June 27, 2011, 06:55 AM   #324
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Quote:
If a new cartridge does not offer significant advantages over well established predecessors, however, it is doomed to failure.
I'll amend my above statement to "doomed to obsolescence".
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Old June 27, 2011, 07:34 AM   #325
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Quote:
I'll amend my above statement to "doomed to obsolescence".
Well good thing the .32's have it all over the .38S and .357 in small frame revolvers (including the Single Six). Of coarse, according to you the small frame revolvers are now obsolete since they offer no significant advantage over semi auto pistols right? Yawn.

Quote:
Definitely enough pop to let you know it's "no .22 anything" or one of the lesser .32s, but still less sturm und drang than the average 158 gr .38 practice load.
A very good description of the .32H&R. When you fire off 6 rounds it just brings a smile to your face no matter if you prefer big bores or .22's. Easy to hit with and you will definetly get the feeling it's not some toy.

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