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Old June 12, 2011, 04:32 PM   #226
secret_agent_man
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I raised the issue of 327 MAG Critical Defense, or rather the lack of it, earlier in this thread. As Sevens points out, Critical Defense ammunition is weak up front. Because it does not have to waste time chasing cloth and other things out of the hollow point before expanding, it may not be weaker overall. This may also explain why Critical Defense does not penetrate as deep as other manufacturers rounds. Few of us really need the penetration the FBI insists on. But with such a small meplat, a .32 inch diameter caliber bullet needs to expand for maximum effect in a small package. The fact that Hornady claims it's new Critical Defense line of ammo is guaranteed to expand, but does not offer it in 327 MAG is somewhat troubling.
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Old June 12, 2011, 09:54 PM   #227
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With a little bit of luck, you lovers of the .327 will see something interesting shortly


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Old June 12, 2011, 10:39 PM   #228
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As much as I like the .327 .....

Quote:
Taurus also makes 2-inch snubs in .327, in varying finishes.
Apparently, they thought it was a good idea also.
....those are the folks that brought us the Taurus Judge, and they thought marketing that as a fine CCW/self defense vs. watermelons was a good idea, too .......
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Old June 12, 2011, 11:00 PM   #229
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The draw to C-D is more the bullet then the speed/velocity of the load.
Aye. I recently switched to the Critical Defense loads in my .380, and picked some up for a new (to me) S&W 642, .38 Special. It's not about velocity. It's about feeding reliability in the .380, and reliable expansion in both.
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Old June 12, 2011, 11:17 PM   #230
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With a little bit of luck, you lovers of the .327 will see something interesting shortly
If I can read between the Wild and the Alaska, I'll go out on a limb and say "levergun".
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Old June 12, 2011, 11:54 PM   #231
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"If I can read between the Wild and the Alaska, I'll go out on a limb and say "levergun".
Now that would be nice, an eight shot Blackhawk and a lever gun. Hope you are right.
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Old June 13, 2011, 09:31 AM   #232
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The fact that Hornady claims it's new Critical Defense line of ammo is guaranteed to expand, but does not offer it in 327 MAG is somewhat troubling.
I have not gotten to the bottom of the whole "exclusivity" thing. I've asked ATK if they own some kind of exclusive rights to the .327 Federal round or name and they haven't answered. I've asked Starline if they can or would build .327 Federal brass and they told me that the '08 Barackolypse still have them so far knee-deep in back orders that they have ZERO plans to even consider it due to the pure volume of other work they need to catch up on.

I pushed them again a full calendar year later and asked them if they are any closer to making .327 and Hunter Pilante told me "not any time soon" and when I asked if he was allowed to make it, he said that he wasn't aware of NOT being allowed to make it, but that they had no plans to make it.

Buffalo Bore has shown, on their website, plans to offer at least one or two .327 Federal Mag products. If they do, it'll be the first ammunition company outside of ATK to build and sell .327 Federal factory ammo.
Quote:
We plan to introduce Two or three 327 Federal and 2 or 3 32 H&R mag. Loads.
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...duct_list&c=58
This has been up there for a good long time and Buffalo Bore has recently marketed a "heavy" .32 H&R Mag load that sends a 100 grain bullet to 1,300 FPS, so is that a positive sign?
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Old June 13, 2011, 09:38 AM   #233
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Quote:
....those are the folks that brought us the Taurus Judge, and they thought marketing that as a fine CCW/self defense vs. watermelons was a good idea, too .......
Hey, Mr. "Glass half empty", I'm certainly no kind of fan of the Taurus Judge and I'm also not a huge fan of most of Taurus' products...

But if you think it's bad for this industry that some gun manufacturer has the stones to introduce products that are different than the same old established thing, I think you are nuts.

The Circuit Judge revolving carbine? The new semi-auto 9mm and .45 carbines? The idea that a major, well-known gun maker is actually taking a chance and putting out some new products in a stagnant, uptight industry is a good thing, whether you can see that or not.
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Old June 13, 2011, 09:47 AM   #234
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jimbob86, that came off a lot more personal and crusty than I had in mind. Please don't take offense at what I said.

I see your point... you may even be agreeing with me that .327 in a 2-inch barrel isn't the world's greatest idea, and using the Judge and the exploding watermelon is actually a really good example of exactly that.

Sorry if my post comes off as harsh or obnoxious.
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Old June 13, 2011, 01:06 PM   #235
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Quote:
a "heavy" .32 H&R Mag load that sends a 100 grain bullet to 1,300 FPS
That's a huckleberry right there at 375 ft-lbs of ME. It certainly would compete head-to-head with the 38 Special. Smith could see some some significant market demand for the discontinued 431PD and 432PD two-inch J frames with a round like that available.
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Old June 13, 2011, 02:28 PM   #236
FrankenMauser
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For anyone else wondering, here are the velocities for the Buffalo Bore "Heavy" .32 H&R load:
Code:
Below are real world velocities shot from stock over-the-counter, revolvers.

1366 fps - USFA Sparrow Hawk 7.5 inch barrel
1340 fps - Ruger Black Hawk 5.5 inch barrel
1187 fps - Ruger SP101 3 inch barrel
1054 fps - Taurus Ultra Light 2 inch barrel
Not too shabby, in the short barrels. ...But not impressive in the longer barrels. I'm still glad they're putting something different on the market, though.


But, this is a good example of why it pays to reload for this (these) cartridge(s). I can duplicate that load for less than $8 per 50 rounds (Assuming it's a Hornady XTP). From Buffalo Bore, 50 rounds would run $66.65.
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Old June 13, 2011, 02:46 PM   #237
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Quote:
9mm

Quote:
I like a .357 revolver, because it can shoot BOTH .357/.38 ......

The .327 can shoot .327mag, .32 H&R mag, and .32 Long .....
Thank you for the education!

Well maybe its not worthless as much now... It can shoot more calibers than just one
Actually the .327 Federal magnum, the .32 H&R magnum and the .32 Long are all the same caliber. That is why you can shoot them from the same gun. They are all .327" or .327 caliber.

They are, however, different cartridges.
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Old June 13, 2011, 02:54 PM   #238
secret_agent_man
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My Bad

The BB 32 H&R MAG clocks in at 247 ft-lbs. ME from a two inch barrel. Still, not too shabby when you consider the extra round compared to a 38 Special J frame. The 32 H&R MAG became very popular in southern Michigan after the round was introduced. Never could figure that one out, except that in northern Michigan bears mandate more caliber while in southern Michigan (read Detroit), it's mostly people you have to worry about.
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Old June 13, 2011, 06:50 PM   #239
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Quote:
Actually the .327 Federal magnum, the .32 H&R magnum and the .32 Long are all the same caliber. That is why you can shoot them from the same gun. They are all .327" or .327 caliber.

They are, however, different cartridges.
Be very careful when you try to come off like an expert... not a dang one of those cartridges is .327". Matter of fact, I don't actually know of any chambering out there that is .327".

All of these cartridges are .312".
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Old June 14, 2011, 03:52 AM   #240
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Quote:
Be very careful when you try to come off like an expert... not a dang one of those cartridges is .327". Matter of fact, I don't actually know of any chambering out there that is .327".

All of these cartridges are .312".
Hello Sevens
You are correct here... perhaps the O.P. was thinking about Chevrolet.. They made a 327 small Block engine that was also awesome... Early S&W hand guns have trouble grouping well with Bullets of diameter's of .0312"-.0313". Mine Prefer bullets of .0310" being my 1904 single shot target pistol chambered in .32 S&W caliber the baby of the .32 rounds and my 1925 Regulation Police revolver which is chambered in the .32 S&W Long Caliber, so that is why I re-load for them all to get the most accuracy out of them on paper. S&W Needs to get their act together and Offer this round in a K-Frame gun with a barrel length of at least 4" to make the velocity shine. That very reason was why I had my Older Model 16-4 .32 H&R Magnum caliber gun converted to the new Federal .327 Magnum round and never looked back. I would be willing to bet if S&W brought back the Model 16-4 as the new model 16-5 chambered in Federal .327 Magnum there would be a waiting list of buyers for it... Long Live the .32 round and those of us that undestand just how accurate and promising it really is ! Hammer It
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Old June 14, 2011, 08:31 PM   #241
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The .32 Mag wasn't that big of a hit, why would a large number of people run to the .327? If more power was needed, there are lots of other cartridges around already. The .357 Magnum comes to mind. Ruger came out with the .32-20 in the Blackhawk, I bought one, and tried hot loading it as much as I could. It wore out brass faster than the .327 would probably wear out, but performance on groudhogs was as good as the 9mm 90gr JHP's (with the Hornady 85gr XTP). Lead bullets in the Ruger .32-20, even at peak loadings, did not smack groundhogs as hard. I'm sure the .327 has potential for varmints, and it remains to be seen if this niche will keep it alive.

Last edited by Sharpsdressed Man; June 14, 2011 at 09:46 PM.
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Old June 14, 2011, 08:46 PM   #242
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The .32 Mag wasn't that big of a hit, why would a large number of people run to the .327? If more power was needed, there are lots of other cartridges around already. The .357 Magnum comes to mind...........
At least put some effort into reading part of the topic, before you post to a 10 page thread.
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Old June 14, 2011, 09:23 PM   #243
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Quote:
Why not the .327?
Seems like a good caliber. And I truly like the 6-shot capacity in a compact revolver. But I already have handguns in the following calibers:

22LR
380
38spl
9mm
357magnum
45acp

So, two things hold me back from the 327...

1. I already have more than enough different ammo types to stock up for. I'm not going to add 10mm or 40s&w or 327 or anything else.
2. I have NEVER seen a box of 327 ammo on the shelf of any gun shop I've been in.
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Old June 14, 2011, 09:53 PM   #244
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I've been very interested in 327mag since it came out and I've been hoping that it would get to be popular because it seems like it has so much potential. The only thing keeping me from buying it is that I don't want to get stuck with a gun I can't get ammo for. If its popularity grows, I'll probably get one. I guess I'm a perfect example of there being a willing customer base, just not enough marketing.
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Old June 16, 2011, 09:01 AM   #245
Sevens
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Long overdue discussion on .327 Federal handloading data.
We've had some discussions and sharing in the past... but not for quite some time. I'd love to get everyone's input and ideas shared in this thread.

Please visit:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454312
...and share what you've done with .327 Federal at the load bench!
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Old June 16, 2011, 09:32 AM   #246
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32 H&R MAG Wadcutters



Been wondering when somebody would do it. 130 grains of hardcast wadcutter @ 1133 fps/3- inch barrel cranking 370 ft-lbs ME. That's got to be bad to the bone. Do you really need the expansion of hollowpoints with this bad boy in the chamber?

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=270
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Old June 16, 2011, 11:51 AM   #247
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"If I can read between the Wild and the Alaska, I'll go out on a limb and say "levergun".
Now that would be nice, an eight shot Blackhawk and a lever gun. Hope you are right.
Ahhh! Drool!
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Old June 18, 2011, 10:43 PM   #248
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Loading 32 H & R Mag to 327 Fed Mag pressures

If they were going to be fired in a gun chambered for .327 Fed Mag, would it be safe to load 32 H&R Mag to similar pressures? There have been comments and maybe even threads that talked about loading 38 Spec to 357 mag pressures, because it is the difference in the gun, not the case, that dictates safety limits.

Since 32 H&R Mag brass is more readily available, it could be a work around means of a shooter getting some fairly good performance out of a 327 Fed chambering, like the SP 101, or the Ruger New Model Blackhawk.

I understand that this may be conjecture on the part of anybody that responds, and since I have loaded 38 cases to fairly hot levels, it is my responsiblity if this comes to an unhappy conclusion for me.

I looked really hard at an SP 101 in 327 Fed and can't get that out of my feeble mind. The one thing that got in my way was the availablity of brass.
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Old June 18, 2011, 10:51 PM   #249
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There's a difference in case capacity and probably a difference in the construction of the two cases which would affect the strength of the brass.

You wouldn't want to use .327Mag loads in a .32H&RMag case unless the cases are identical in capacity and strength.

Assuming that the case strength is similar you could reduce the .327Mag loads to compensate for the reduction in case capacity between the two cartridges and get roughly similar performance.
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Old June 19, 2011, 12:10 AM   #250
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As John pointed out, the case capacity of the two cartridges (.32 H&R vs .327 Fed) is different enough to make quite an impact. "Full House" loads in the .327 really are "full". With almost all hot or max loads I have tested, the case is full of powder. You simply cannot get that much in the .32 H&R case. You might be able to reach similar pressures, but the .327 should always provide better velocities (provided you have a barrel length appropriate to the load).

With a short barreled handgun, hot .32 H&R loads should be good enough for most shooters. (There's no point in pushing into .327 territory with the loads. Hot .32 H&R loads give similar enough performance in short barrels. {in my opinion})
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