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Old April 12, 2011, 10:38 PM   #1
Daekar
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Why isn't there a 357 super magnum?

Please excuse any diaplays of ignorance here... but I was looking at the revolver calibers and wondering why there isn't a longer cased version of the 357. The bullets are wide enough to expand effectively, and I'm pretty sure there would be demand for a hunting revolver that had more power with a decent BC round. With the right brass, such a round could easily match or exceed 30-30 velocities out of a carbine and would bring larger game into reach than the 357 allows. All of this with flatter trajectory and likely better sectional density than a 44 mag.

Has somebody made this round and I just didn't get the memo?
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Old April 12, 2011, 10:40 PM   #2
Auto426
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You are looking for a .357 Maximum.
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Old April 12, 2011, 10:47 PM   #3
Andy Taylor
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Yep, .357 Maximum
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Old April 12, 2011, 10:56 PM   #4
Daekar
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Well crap, it's a dead cartridge. That's not good! Weird that they didn't fix whatever was wrong with it rather than just drop it completely. Could've been the ultimate versatile cartridge.
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Old April 12, 2011, 11:30 PM   #5
Smaug
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It died because it wasn't needed.

What can't one do with a .357 Magnum?

One can hunt deer, defend oneself, target shoot. It makes plenty of noise and fire. Why would you need more?

If you need more, there's always .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .454 Casull, and a whole mess of "mine's bigger than yours" calibers by S&W and Ruger.
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Old April 12, 2011, 11:51 PM   #6
TenRing
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The .357 Maximum would mainly contribute to more hearing loss. The .44 mag delivers more power from a larger, heavier bullet and with less muzzle blast. You can also buy excellent rifles chambered for .44 mag. Why put the .357 on steroids when the .44 is better suited for heavier shooting?
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Old April 13, 2011, 12:21 AM   #7
bamaranger
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problem

I think bill Ruger claimed that Remington changed the loading to a different powder type after their revolver in .357 Max was introduced. In any event, they were hard on forcing cones and topstraps.
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Old April 13, 2011, 12:45 AM   #8
FrankenMauser
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Quote:
I think bill Ruger claimed that Remington changed the loading to a different powder type after their revolver in .357 Max was introduced. In any event, they were hard on forcing cones and topstraps.
That's the "word on the street". However, long term owners found gas cutting of top straps would stop before it did enough damage to be an issue.

Me....
I've always been waiting for an affordable lever gun chambered in .357 Maximum.
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Old April 13, 2011, 03:18 AM   #9
Jim March
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What's not dead is Gary Reeder's 356GNR - a 41Mag shell necked down to 357, with horsepower very close to the 357Max but in a standard-length cylinder.

Getting one is "fairly easy". You go buy a Ruger large-frame SA Blackhawk with the 9mm second conversion cylinder, you send the 9mm cylinder off to Gary Reeder with about $300, it comes back in 356GNR with dies and loading data . You can also buy loaded ammo from Cartridge Performance, started by one of Gary's former employees, so it's actually a "semi-wildcat"...

You can also convert a 357 large-frame Ruger to a dedicated 356GNR, or do so to a six-shot S&W N-frame 357. In the latter case you'll get loading data that's a bit watered down as it's not quite as strong a gun...
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Old April 13, 2011, 06:46 AM   #10
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There are still a few folks shooting the .357 super mag. Brass is readily available, several custom shops reload the caliber. It shines at longer ranges, 100 to 200 yds it rings those steels with regularity. The top strap erosion is self limiting, Dan Wesson addressed it by recommending a barrel gap of .002. It slows it down but you still get noticeable cutting.


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Old April 13, 2011, 08:06 AM   #11
Magnum Wheel Man
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yep... love mine

got a Contender barrel too



no top strap issue with my "little Dan"
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Old April 13, 2011, 08:19 AM   #12
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Cool thread. I'v planed on adding a Ruger 357 Max. to my colection for quite some time. I just haven't run across one that is in good shape for the price I want to pay. If folks got more pics of anything in this cal. lets see them.
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Old April 13, 2011, 08:46 AM   #13
hartlock
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.357 maximum

I have used the .357 super mag, as those of us in IHMSA like to call it, and
it is a wonderful round. It is good at 200 meters for the 50 lb rams and will
take them over with ease, with the correct bullets. The problem with the
round was the light bullets loaded in factory rounds. The cartridge was not
designed around the 158 grain factory load, but was meant for 180 grain
and above weight bullets. And, loaded with the correct bullets and powder
charges, alot of loads exceed the power of the .44 magnum.
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Old April 13, 2011, 08:49 AM   #14
TJH3781
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Pachmayr Dominator in 357 Max.
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Old April 13, 2011, 09:02 AM   #15
TJH3781
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http://www.bellmtcs.com

The link is a good source for 357 Max information. The site has alot on it, so you need to pick & choose your area of interest.
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Old April 13, 2011, 04:57 PM   #16
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It should be noted that .357 Maximum and .357 SuperMag are not the same cartridge.
.357 Maximum has a 1.605" case length
.357 SuperMag has a 1.610" case length (as do the .375 .414, and .445 SuperMag cartridges).

Edit:
I should add that there was another .357 caliber cartridge called a .360 Dan Wesson, case length is 1.41".

Last edited by wdelack; April 13, 2011 at 05:13 PM.
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Old April 13, 2011, 05:15 PM   #17
Clifford L. Hughes
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Daekar:

The reason that the 357 maximum was dropped is because it eroded the Black Hawk's top strap just above the forcing cone. A Thompson Contender would handle this round but I don't think that ammo is being manufactured now.


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Old April 13, 2011, 05:27 PM   #18
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There is. Its called a .44.
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Old April 13, 2011, 06:16 PM   #19
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I think some gunsmith modifed the Marlin 1894 .357 Magnum to shoot Maximums.

Sure wish Marlin had taken up the idea. I bet it would outdo the 30/30 at closer ranges.

Deaf
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Old April 13, 2011, 06:27 PM   #20
laytonj1
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Quote:
It should be noted that .357 Maximum and .357 SuperMag are not the same cartridge.
.357 Maximum has a 1.605" case length
.357 SuperMag has a 1.610" case length (as do the .375 .414, and .445 SuperMag cartridges).
How much of a difference does .005" really make? Were there internal differences?
My Dan Wesson model 40 is labeled both. SuperMag and 357 Maximum, depending which side of the barrel you look at.

Jim


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Old April 13, 2011, 06:34 PM   #21
laytonj1
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Quote:
What can't one do with a .357 Magnum?
Knock down heavy steel rams at 200 meters reliably.
The 357 Maximum was designed for silhouette competition were you needed a really flat shooting cartridge with enough power to knock over the rams without the recoil that would come with a 44 magnum.

Launching a .357" 180gr. to 200gr. bullet at ~1500 fps was the perfect solution at the time.

Jim
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Old April 13, 2011, 06:39 PM   #22
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"...Weird that they didn't fix whatever was wrong with it..." Stuff that doesn't meet the sales projections gets dropped regularly. Costs too much to fix.
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Old April 13, 2011, 09:34 PM   #23
ltc444
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I worked for a former VP for Smith & Wesson. He explained that the 357 Max caused excess errosion between the cylinder and the barrell.

Dan wesson with its adjustiable barrell was the only design which could deal with the errosion problem. According to him S&W expermented with the round and could not eliminate the problem.
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Old April 14, 2011, 08:19 AM   #24
hartlock
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Well, Ive been using my Mark 40 Dan Wesson, with 8" barrel for over 21
years in IHMSA competition, and guess what? My top strap isnt cut through
yet! A lot of this nonsense started when certain members of the gun press,
such as the late Bob Milek, got their panties in a was because none of them
were consulted in development of the round. Milek was an incessant critic
of this cartridge. I had a Ruger 10" barreled revolver that I started with, it
now belongs to another silhouette shooter buddy of mine, and he is still
shooting it. This whole business of the top strap cutting is a non-issue. It
goes so far, and then stops.
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Old April 14, 2011, 02:04 PM   #25
wdelack
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Quote:
How much of a difference does .005" really make?
Do know, will a SM cartridge chamber in a revolver that is marked for Maximum only?

Quote:
This whole business of the top strap cutting is a non-issue. It goes so far, and then stops.
Agreed. The top strap cutting and forcing cone erosion had more to do with light weight bullets being pushed at very high velocities. This is not what the Max and SM were designed for.

Quote:
My Dan Wesson model 40 is labeled both.
So is mine...

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