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Old June 15, 1999, 09:53 PM   #1
Mark M33
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You come out from the mall and you head to the parking lot, two males are walking about twenty feet behind you, non have made a move, your car is twenty feet away and you are alone and armed. What would be your actions?
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Old June 15, 1999, 10:43 PM   #2
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n

[This message has been edited by Prichard (edited February 07, 2000).]
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Old June 15, 1999, 11:01 PM   #3
Rich Lucibella
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Do the "I forgot something" turn around. Reverse direction to mall entrance by alternate route, keeping Detroit steel between you and the subjects.

Once you're behind them, make the decision to continue or return to car.
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Old June 16, 1999, 09:44 AM   #4
Anthony
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I'm with you Rich. Using the cars as cover is a very important tactical concern.

Increasing the distance between yourself and the possible assailants is also prudent. Distance favors the trained marksman.

Also, scan the area for possible allies waiting to pounce from a hidden position or outflank you.

Personally, I like to walk to the car with my hand resting on a Smith & Wesson Model 640 Centennial in my pocket that I carry as a backup. If surprised by an assailant, I can always shoot through the pocket or at least have my hand on my gun. If time permits, then the heavier caliber primary can be brought into play.

Above all, if you have the time and distance, get in the car, start it, and get moving. A moving 3500 pound car has infinitely more stopping power than anything you can conceal on your person.

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Old June 16, 1999, 10:54 PM   #5
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Given those distances and my long legs, I just increase my step rate and get into the car. The pistol comes out of the pocket as I sit in the seat. No, I probably won't get the door closed if they really mean me harm, but then I've got them approaching me from one side only, and there can be no mistake as to their intentions. The pistol becomes apparrent only when/if they approach me in my car.
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Old June 17, 1999, 09:12 PM   #6
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Seeing as 20 feet can be covered in about a second or so, the idea of having as many objects between you and them is valid.

Rich's solution is the best one. You always move to people if possible when you are ussure of the situation. GLV
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Old June 18, 1999, 12:27 PM   #7
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Rich is correct.

keep a barrier between you and the subjects...

If the give you any overt actions - draw, and take them to the pavement - either verbally, or keneticly.


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Old June 22, 1999, 10:02 PM   #8
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Time, distance and shielding. Awareness of the surroundings and being prepared takes away the surprises. Excellent discussion, sometimes minor things are ignored.M33
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Old September 28, 2007, 09:51 PM   #9
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1) Get out cell phone
2) Prentend to call police
3) Describe subjects behind you as possible fugitives you saw in a Post Office Poster
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Old September 28, 2007, 10:18 PM   #10
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Well, I don’t know about the car. I think only certain angles of a typical automobile actually offer protection. Other then that items like the windshield of heck even that paint can basically just chip into projectiles themselves, plus I don’t know of many people that get there cars with armored doors or anything.

I guess I would just take a second to evaluate my options, such as is anyone else around, or what could I maybe make it to in regards to protection such as cover, like a big cement block sometimes found around a light pole.

Lastly you could just walk away from your car, or be more direct with if they are following you. I mean if these people came to do you some real harm, its most likely going to happen regardless of what you do. Attempting to make it to your car could be bad as they might plan to use your car also... So who knows, sounds like a crappy place to be really. If you get the idea going in your head for sure that they plan to harm you, you can always take first strike I guess, with simple confrontation as a distance, preferably with maybe your hand on the gun or whatever, supplying the idea that things could go horribly wrong for whoever is coming after you might be enough to defuse the scenario, more so if they had some sort of plan that’s no longer seeming to work.
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Old September 28, 2007, 10:31 PM   #11
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I've been in this kind of situation before and seen it happen first hand to a woman in her mid 20s. I was sitting in my truck waiting for my girlfriend in the parking structure as I watched these three guys follow her. I had my hand on the door handle, and gun drawn waiting, but they all got into a silver honda shortly after..unknown if they wanted to do something.


Last time I was in this situation was afew months ago. Well more like almost a year ago. There was snow on the ground. Parking lot, night time, I was wearing my heavy dress jacket, and like I always do, I take it off right before I get into my truck. This case I took off my jacket, placed it over my left arm so my firearm was exposed. The man behind me had a puffy black beanie on his head, and all black clothes, jacket. No bags comming out of the mall.

That is one thing to take notice, do these people have bags? how do they look? scruffy or clean cut? gang bangers, or business type? I always take notice to little things like that..
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Old September 29, 2007, 12:04 AM   #12
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It could be they are parked by you but just to be sure i would shoot them. better to be judged by 12 than carried by six!!!
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Old September 29, 2007, 05:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
It could be they are parked by you but just to be sure i would shoot them. better to be judged by 12 than carried by six!!!
WHAT?!?!
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Old September 29, 2007, 05:32 AM   #14
grey sky
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Two men following me ?

I post again SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. Don't be there. Please I am not trying to be antagonistic scenarios like this should be seen coming long before one is isolated in the parking lot. MyXD40 wittnessing a sheeple being separated from the herd. The girl probobly was not aware of the threat potential ,good lesson glad there was no need to intervene. I have been supprised a couple of times but its prety rare that I get that distracted anymore.
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Old September 29, 2007, 07:49 AM   #15
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Wow...a thread that was dead for over 8 years is revived!
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Old September 29, 2007, 07:59 AM   #16
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If you have a car that takes a key to unlock the door, have that key at-the-ready, but in your off-hand. I met a lady that had foiled an attack by using her car key to slash the face of her attacker, then she was able to quickly get in her car and get out of the area. The attacker was EASY to identify later!

Use some common sense! If you have the two men following you, but you also see a group of other people within reasonable distance, call out to them as if they're your friends. Something like, "Hey, I thought that you guys got lost! We're over here!" The least that will do will be to attract the attention of the group of people, in case something does happen.

No one else in the parking lot? Well, try a ruse distraction of some sort. Look into the sky and exclaim loud enough so they can hear you, "Wow! What the heck was that?", or something like, "Wow! I wonder who the police are chasing?". (This is sort of like the prank of standing on a street corner, looking intently into the sky, then look around to see how many others wondered what you were looking at). The distraction may give you enough time to get in your car, and be relatively safe.
Once you're in your car, it's a 2-ton "weapon".

More? Well, most business parking lots will have a few shopping carts strewn about. Ever think of those carts as "battering rams"? The least they could be used for would be to put about 3' distance between you and at least one of the attackers....but possibly swung around to smash against the other....or perhaps smashed up against a parked car, to cause a loud metal-against-metal crashing sound that might attract attention.

Of course, if you're carrying, most of these distractions will at least give you enough time to unholster and start computing "shoot/no-shoot" thoughts.
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Old September 29, 2007, 12:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Do the "I forgot something" turn around. Reverse direction to mall entrance by alternate route, keeping Detroit steel between you and the subjects.
This also affords you a chance to see if THEY alter their course. Yes, be wary of accomplaices, but how many thugs are likely to be there when they are going to have to split your loot?
Quote:
It could be they are parked by you but just to be sure i would shoot them. better to be judged by 12 than carried by six!!!
Great job! you just plugged two under cover LEO's or someone's kid who was dropping off his cell phone for repair.
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Old September 29, 2007, 07:23 PM   #18
kgpcr
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I posted that you should shoot them as satire. I dont even stop to think about two guys in a parking lot. i keep an eye on them if they warrant it but i am not in town where i need to worry about that. I am also not paranoid. two guys in a parking lot do not represent a threat to me. If they become a threat i will deal with it in the apropriate manner.
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Old September 29, 2007, 07:46 PM   #19
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Anyone ever wonder how these 8 year old posts come back to life?


This one does merit a good question though. How often do we actually notice things in a parking lot? Sure, in most places there will be a lot of people in a very wide open area which makes attackers less likely to engage. But how often are we alone in a parking garage? Lots of nooks and crannies for people to hide and do bad things to you.

In the senario described, it would be enough to put a few blips on my radar. Should I feel these two are causing "more suspecion" than I usually assign people, I would initate some tactics:

If possible, start weaving through the cars. If you're in a lot with several isles, cut between two cars and get to the next isle. Check to see if they follow. If they do, cut back to your original path. If they follow you here, my situational goes from Yellow to Orange.

Now, stop and make it known you are aware of their presence. My preferred method is to stop and tie a shoe. You can pivot 90 degrees, which puts them in your pereferal vision, then kneel down and tie a shoe. Look at them as your tying, just long enough to seem casual but let them know you see them. Make eye contact. You can also play along with your isle jumping and just act lost for a min. Spin around and look at them as you search for your vehicle. This could easily be enough to make them disengage you if you are a target for them.

Ah. That feels better. Haven't "Internet Commando"ed in quite a while
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Old September 29, 2007, 09:23 PM   #20
Tanzer
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Quote:
I posted that you should shoot them as satire.
Fair enough, but you might want to make your satire more obvious. Smileys or something. That really sounded like you meant it.
Also, not to preach, but jokes can be taken out of context. If you find yourself in court for a legitimate SD shooting your eyes will pop out when the prosecuter brings records into evidence:
Quote:
Quote:
It could be they are parked by you but just to be sure i would shoot them. better to be judged by 12 than carried by six!!!
Now you have some 'splainin' to do.
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Old September 29, 2007, 10:08 PM   #21
kgpcr
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Good point Tanzer. A smiley would have made that obvious. I just dont see how two people in a parking lot pose any threat at all unless you are in a place you dont belong. i get a big kick out of the internet commando's and all the "tactical" talk that goes on. if you are worried about them take a turn in the parking lot and see if they follow. If they do head back to the store. Not a situation that needs alot of "tactical" thought unless you are paraniod of every one and every thing.
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Old September 29, 2007, 10:12 PM   #22
MyXD40
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This reminds me of when I walked into the bank with my big black puffy jacket, and a ski mask on. Man everyone was FREAKED out!!!! (True story)
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Old September 29, 2007, 10:20 PM   #23
ghalleen
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Quote:
1) Get out cell phone
2) Prentend to call police
3) Describe subjects behind you as possible fugitives you saw in a Post Office Poster
You're going to do this because two guys are walking behind you???

As far as I can tell, neither of them have done anything menacing. Just two guys walking behind you as you leave the mall. Probably no big deal. I'm mean, this describes half the times I've been at a mall.

Stay aware, as always, and be prepared to act if it's not innocent behavior.
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Old September 29, 2007, 10:24 PM   #24
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It's kinda hard to not look suspect when you're walking, and two guys are walking BEHIND you..wouldn't you have to turn around in order to see them? are you watching them?

I always watch reflections in the car windows
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Old September 29, 2007, 11:31 PM   #25
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We've gotten off topic. Rich's suggestion is valid whether done precisely or not. Others have suggested alternate methods - shoe lace routine etc. The way I see it, the idea is the same. CWP means dropping "Condition White" 99.9% of the time. We are thrust into the responsibility to think. The macho stuff is for chumps - period. You remember that death is attached to your hip. You take care to figure out your situation. You remember the rules about knowing your target and what is beyond, and you keep your wits about you. Tactical metods are employed here - good thread. You need a brain here. The last thing you want is to shoot a groom to be who just bought an engagement ring and has it in HIS pocket so no one targets him. He may seem uneasy because he just dropped half a year's salary.

Kgcpr - sorry man, I'm quitting smoking. Right now, I could roll up some dead grass out back, roll it in toilet tissue, and light it up. Chewing this d*mn gum has the same effect as a fart in a windstorm.
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