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Old April 9, 2011, 10:04 PM   #1
marks655
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Loads for 45-70 Siamese mauser ?

I recently aquired a very nice conversion (see pics). The handloading manuals vary considerably in terms of heavier loads for 'modern rifles' (beyond the Marlin levergun models). Just how much farther is what I'm interested in.

Any advice would be appreciated.
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Last edited by marks655; April 11, 2011 at 07:47 PM.
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Old April 25, 2011, 10:32 PM   #2
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Thanks everyone.....
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Old April 25, 2011, 11:04 PM   #3
mehavey
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See this string:

http://www.outdoorsdirectory.com/akf...ting/61843.htm

The comments from first-to-last (SteveInmi) echo what you will find if you otherwise Google < strength siamese 45-70 >

e.g., http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...e_mauser_45_70

Loads must be necessarily appropriate to what the community gauges to be the inherent action strength. Judging by the above, the S-M appears "very" strong.

Somewhere around here I have Vol-II of Ken Waters "Pet Loads" which discusses the Siamese in depth@p.475 & beyond. Of course it's about now that I can only find Volume-I
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Old April 25, 2011, 11:35 PM   #4
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You should also note that Sierra#5 lists their high-powered 45-70 loads as being appropriate for the "Ruger#1 ...and Siamese Mauser"

For calibration, QuickLoad thinks Sierra's Benchmark, H4198, and X-Terminator-based Max loads are 46-48,000psi.

Because QL is rumored to have trouble w/ straight-wall cases, look also at Lyman's#49 which equates the Maximum Benchmark load above to 37,000CUP

Just so we have start a forum brawl, see also < http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/psicuparticle2.pdf > for that CUP--> PSI discussion.
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Old April 26, 2011, 03:23 AM   #5
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Your Siamese Mauser is as strong as any other Mauser 98 rifle, and will take the high pressure loads listed in your loading manual. It may or may not shoot them well, but it will handle the pressure fine.
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Old April 26, 2011, 11:18 AM   #6
Bohica6284
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Nice rifle, I built on for myself back when I was in gunsmithing school and it's one of my favorites. Like other Mauser actions, the SM is super strong. Obviously any factory load is safe. I use the same loads in my Marlin 1895 as I do in my SM however the SM likes lighter bullets a lot more than my 1895. The load data you run into that is not for "modern" guns is a safety net for people who are reloading for BP guns. Mausers were always overbuilt and I have fired some very heavy loads in mine including some from Buffalo Bore. Though I have used hard cast 500 and 510 Sledgehammers....the pressures will increase with lead so I tend to stick with jackets bullets though pressures never get very scary with a straight walled case like the Gov't
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Old April 26, 2011, 11:27 AM   #7
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"Thanks everyone..... "

Relax.

Sometimes the right people just don't see a thread.

Instead of getting ******, you could have simply booted your question back to the top.
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Old April 26, 2011, 01:46 PM   #8
roberto mervicini
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Hi Marks655,
last year I started the project of making my own 45/70. After I found a bare action of a Siamese Mauser on line, with the help of a two members of this forum, they got me a .458 barrel retread and rechamber and the rest is history.
I made some cartridges using two boolits that I cast from wheel w. water cool, a 350grain gas checks, over IMR 3031 at extimate starting speed of 2000fps , the other a 405grain plain also over IMR 3031 at extimate starting speed of 1300 fps. RP case and WLR primers for both. I say extimate fps since for one reason or one other I did not manage to go and test them out at the range yet. By end june all accuracy and speed test should be completed and if you want I will keep you inform by then.
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Old April 26, 2011, 01:53 PM   #9
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Both of you have nice looking rifles!!!!!
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Old April 27, 2011, 11:58 AM   #10
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Hodgdon reloading data list the 45 70 "strong Loads" for the single shot Rugers, Browning, Winchester and the Siamse Mauser.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

45-70 Government (Modern Rifles)*: These data are for only Ruger No.1 and No.3 single shots, Browning 1885 single shots and Siamese bolt action rifles. Max pressure, 50,000 CUP. Do not use these data in either of the prior two sections of 45-70 data (Trapdoor and Lever Actions).
One of my favorite fun load is 4 150gr lead balls loaded into the 45 70 case.
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Old April 27, 2011, 03:05 PM   #11
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Holy fiddleback....

Both of those rifles have some gorgeous wood on them.
Absolutely gorgeous...


Yes, I'm jealous.
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Old April 27, 2011, 03:07 PM   #12
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Oh, and if I'd seen this posting back when it was first posted, I would have recommended you take the heaviest load listed in a good manual and go with it. I imagine the action can probably take it, from what I've read about their strength.
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Old April 27, 2011, 03:25 PM   #13
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I remember these guns,,,

Back in 1976 the Rod & Gun club at my Air Force detachment got three of these in,,,
Man they were some of the most massively heavy rifles I've ever hefted.

In fact I started a thread about them several months back,,,
No one could tell me anything about them though,,,
Possibly because I thought they were Chinese.

Old brain cells fail me every now and then.

Anyways, one of the gun mags ran an article about reloading for them,,,
They toasted a Marlin with a load the mauser easily handled,,,
They tried and could not blow one of them up.

One of the R&G members dropped an elk with one of them,,,
He had loaded some "hot" rounds that the Mauser handled very nicely.

Just anecdotal musings,,,
But I did enjoy finally knowing what those rifles really were.

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Old April 30, 2011, 08:24 PM   #14
marks655
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timing



Thanks for the replies. Was it the 'frowning face' that brought in these posts?

I am sometimes impatient. I have always been that way, but it has become more of an issue during the past few years because I have acute myelogenous leukemia and am undergoing a 2nd stem cell transplant May 3rd. The hourglass may be running low and I hope to get a few extra trips to the range over the next few months.

Thanks again for the replies - and if it looks like this transplant isn't going to work I will likely list this mauser FS (OH) on the TFL for-sale forum.
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Old April 30, 2011, 08:26 PM   #15
marks655
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Roberto - that's a really sharp looking rifle you built. And yes, am interested in loading data and ballistics you are willing to share.

- thanks
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Old April 30, 2011, 08:39 PM   #16
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Very Nice!!!

I had one in 348 Winchester that I traded in a bout of utter stupidity.
Mine also had a classic stock like yours; Fajen I believe.
The wood had about the same figure & would be very expensive to buy today.
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Old May 2, 2011, 05:43 PM   #17
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marks655.... sorry to hear about your illness. Hopefully the next treatment will do the trick.
Prayers sent...
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Old May 2, 2011, 05:52 PM   #18
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Good luck, Mark.
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Old May 2, 2011, 09:03 PM   #19
marks655
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Thanks for your kind posts.
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Old May 2, 2011, 11:37 PM   #20
roberto mervicini
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Mark, best wishes for your treatment.
With pleasure I will PM you the results of my test as soon as I will be able to go to the range.
Best Regards,
roberto
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Old June 27, 2011, 01:50 PM   #21
roberto mervicini
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finally got around to perform the fire test

Hi, last week I finally fire the gun... nothing to brag about but for the service I will ask to perform is just fine. ( I will hunt bears over bait from 25 to 75 yrd in our woods ) Also by playng with the cartridge O.A.L. maybe I could tight up the group further.
I selected IMR3031 as propeller and the best performance with 350grain wheel w. gas checks boolit was with 54.0 and 55.0 grain load. ( Average speed at 12 ft. from the muzzle was 2230fps.)
The top group is the 54.0grain, aiming at the center of the bull, the lover group is the 55.0 aiming at 6 o'clock of the big red bull
Also test with good results 405 boolit, plain base same powder 42.0 grains load (average speed 1370fps )
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