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Old April 8, 2011, 08:59 AM   #1
GregInAtl
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Shipping handguns no FFL

I am thinking of selling a gun on gunbroker.com, it states that if the seller does not have an FFL they have to ship it UPS Next Day Air (Fed Ex and USPS will not ship handguns)

Several questions:
  • How do you go about shipping UPS. Do you have to take it to a UPS terminal or can you take it to a store, e.g. Mailboxes, Office Depot
  • How much is it likely to cost (approx)

Here is a link to the shipping rulles listed on gunbroker:http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/Sup...spx?faqid=1118

If there are any other ways to ship, I am open to suggestions
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Old April 8, 2011, 09:03 AM   #2
Jimmy10mm
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I had to ship a handgun back to Sig for repair. They sent the UPS mailing label but here in FL I did have to take it to the main UPS center rather than drop it off with a driver or at a UPS store. I also was required to tell them that the parcel contained a handgun. UPS regs IIRC. If I was shipping a handgun sold on GB and mailing to an FFL holder I've been told that all I would need to do would be to include a xerox copy of my driver's license but I'm not sure about that.
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Old April 8, 2011, 09:20 AM   #3
Hunter2678
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USPS wont ship guns at all, even to an FFL for "repair" ?
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Old April 8, 2011, 09:25 AM   #4
Don P
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USPS will ONLY ship long guns. No hand guns at all. UPS and FEDEX for hand guns is next day air. If YOU do not have a FFL you cannot sell out of state. You will have to use a FFL to do the transfer and some FFL's will not accept firearms from non FFL holders.

Quote:
USPS wont ship guns at all, even to an FFL for "repair" ?
Most manufacturer's who pay for shipping will use UPS or FEDEX.
Personally I would use one of the 2 shippers mentioned and not even try to use the USPS.

I know for a fact that FEDEX WILL ship handguns because I have used them twice for shipping hand guns.

If you use UPS YOU MUST go to the hub. UPS stores will not take firearms for shipment.
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Old April 8, 2011, 09:29 AM   #5
woad_yurt
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Quote:
If YOU do not have a FFL you cannot sell out of state.
Incorrect. He can too sell out of state just so long as he ships it to a license holder, to either a dealer or C&R holder, depending upon the weapon itself.

UPS stores are franchises and the franchise owner can decide whether or not they'll do guns. If you go to an actual UPS or Fedex center, just tell 'em that it's a gun. Put a copy of the recipient FFL in the box and bring another copy with you. In case they want to see that it's going to a dealer, you won't have to open the package.

While it is company policy to ship handguns the most expensive way, it is federal law that you must tell the carrier that there's a handgun in there.

It costs approximately $45, give or take. It depends upon the weight. For me, it's always been in the low forty dollar area. Charge 'em for insurance, too, as UPS only covers the first $100 of loss w/o it.
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Last edited by woad_yurt; April 8, 2011 at 09:41 AM.
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Old April 8, 2011, 09:31 AM   #6
Don P
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Quote:
He can too sell out of state just so long as he ships it to a license holder.
As I also stated some FFL's will NOT accept shipments from non FFL holder.

I stand corrected on the shipment of handguns, they must be sent to a FFL 01 holder.
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Last edited by Don P; April 8, 2011 at 09:38 AM.
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Old April 8, 2011, 09:35 AM   #7
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Sending my HK in to Bill Springfield for some work to be done on it tomorrow, dont wanna do the UPS hub either....sounds like FedEx is the way to roll.

Don, did you tell the FedEx folks outright that your parcel contained a gun?
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Old April 8, 2011, 09:37 AM   #8
Mike Irwin
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Don is correct.

My FFL in Virginia will no longer accept handgun shipments from non-FFL holders.

He started that up some months ago. I'm not sure why.
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Old April 8, 2011, 09:41 AM   #9
Don P
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If I remember correctly Playboypenguin had this problem some time back.
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Old April 8, 2011, 09:47 AM   #10
carguychris
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Quote:
How much is it likely to cost (approx)
Since nobody has addressed this yet, $30-$60 is typical, and it's substantially more to or from AK and HI. This is the reason some GB sellers only commit to a shipment price to the CONUS and have a disclaimer for AK and HI.

Hint: If you ship UPS, ask for the "Next Day Air Saver" service, you'll save a few bucks and the only difference is that they don't guarantee delivery before 12pm.

Make sure you check the "Adult Signature Required" option, otherwise the driver may leave the package on the recipient's doorstep if he/she doesn't answer the door.

FWIW when cost is considered, shipping it yourself versus doing a dealer transfer may be a wash. Almost any handgun will fit in the "medium" USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Box and ship anywhere in the USA for $10.95. A transfer plus $10.95 may be less than the UPS or FedEx shipping cost, and it may also be more convenient than reaching a shipping location that will accept firearms.
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Old April 8, 2011, 09:58 AM   #11
Don P
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Quote:
Almost any handgun will fit in the "medium" USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate Box and ship anywhere in the USA for $10.95. A transfer plus $10.95
From the ATF (18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3) 922(a)(5) and 922(a)(2)(A)
Handguns are not mailable. A contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

Page 178 of the Federal Firearms Regulatios reference Guide.
FYI you can obtain a copy of the regulations for FREE from the ATF's web site at www.atf.gov. Just go to publications and fill in the needed info.

Quote:
Don, did you tell the FedEx folks outright that your parcel contained a gun?
Yes I did and the woman at the counter said and I quote "fine no problem" and federal law states that the shipper MUST notify the carrier that the shipment contains a firearm. Also the package is prohibited from being marked that a firearm is inside.
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Last edited by Don P; April 8, 2011 at 10:04 AM.
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Old April 8, 2011, 10:26 AM   #12
AH.74
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Quote:
USPS will ONLY ship long guns. No hand guns at all.
Technically this is incorrect. FFL holders may use USPS to ship handguns.
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Old April 8, 2011, 10:30 AM   #13
carguychris
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Quote:
From the ATF (18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3) 922(a)(5) and 922(a)(2)(A)
Handguns are not mailable. A contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
I was talking about dealer transfers in my previous post.

FFL dealers, pawnbrokers, and manufacturers can legally mail handguns; unlicensed individuals and C&R FFLs (licensed collectors) cannot, unless the handgun in question is a legal antique (which is another topic unto itself).
Quote:
...federal law states that the shipper MUST notify the carrier that the shipment contains a firearm.
Actually, if you read the law carefully [18 USC § 922(e)], that's not what it says.
Quote:
It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped...
<emphasis mine>

The underlined part exempts shipments to most FFLs under almost all circumstances.

This provision of federal law is usually only an issue if an unlicensed individual is legally shipping a gun to another unlicensed individual, which may occur for an otherwise legal in-state purchase, or when sending a firearm to an out-of-state location for later pickup by the sender so he or she doesn't have to carry it while traveling. (In the latter situation, the shipment is legal if the recipient does not open the package.)
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Old April 8, 2011, 10:45 AM   #14
GregInAtl
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Everyone

I just talked to a UPS store close to where I live and he said that no UPS stores are allowed to ship firearms and that I would have to take it to a UPS hub. I then then called the UPS customer service number (I just got off the phone with them) and they told me that to ship a handgun the shipper has to be one of the following:
  • Licensced dealer
  • Licensced collector
  • Manufacturer
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Old April 8, 2011, 10:57 AM   #15
carguychris
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Quote:
I then then called the UPS customer service number (I just got off the phone with them) and they told me that to ship a handgun the shipper has to be one of the following:

* Licensced dealer
* Licensced collector
* Manufacturer
The customer service rep does not fully understand the UPS regulations. I think he or she is confusing the sender with the recipient.

I am a C&R licensee and I have shipped handguns via UPS before, as have numerous other C&R licensees and nonlicensees on this forum.
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Old April 8, 2011, 11:02 AM   #16
GregInAtl
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Quote:
The customer service rep does not fully understand the UPS regulations. I think he or she is confusing the sender with the recipient.

I am a C&R licensee and I have shipped handguns via UPS before, as have numerous other C&R licensees and nonlicensees on this forum.
I'll call them again. Maybe I'll get someone with a different version of the rules. Obviously, there has to be a way
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Old April 8, 2011, 11:05 AM   #17
natman
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Quote:
I just talked to a UPS store close to where I live and he said that no UPS stores are allowed to ship firearms and that I would have to take it to a UPS hub. I then then called the UPS customer service number (I just got off the phone with them) and they told me that to ship a handgun the shipper has to be one of the following:

* Licensced dealer
* Licensced collector
* Manufacturer
Whoever you spoke to does not understand UPS' policies. From their website:

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res...tml?srch_pos=1


Quote:
UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States), law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law, and when such shipment complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package.
Granted it is a confusing sentence. It starts off talking about licensees of various types, but in the highlighted area it clearly states that it's OK to ship a firearm via UPS between persons not otherwise prohibited by law. This would include a mere mortal shipping to an FFL for sale or repair.
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Old April 8, 2011, 11:16 AM   #18
GregInAtl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carguychris
The customer service rep does not fully understand the UPS regulations. I think he or she is confusing the sender with the recipient.

I am a C&R licensee and I have shipped handguns via UPS before, as have numerous other C&R licensees and nonlicensees on this forum.
Ha, ha. I called UPS customer service again and got a totally different answer than before. They confirmed what you said (and others) that it's the recipient that needs to meet one of the 3 conditions I mentioned above not the shipper. So much for customer service.
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Old April 8, 2011, 11:18 AM   #19
LarryFlew
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sold a lot of handguns that I sent by UPS before I found an FFL that would do it for $20 plus actual shipping (usually the med flat rate box mentioned earlier) through USPS. Usually means it cost me $35ish with insurance vs $65 UPS next day air. Also means I no longer have to get to a UPS hub.
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Old April 8, 2011, 11:20 AM   #20
Hunter2678
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sounds like sprint customer service...you get a different answer to the same question every time you ask it.
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Old April 8, 2011, 12:12 PM   #21
GregInAtl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryFlew
sold a lot of handguns that I sent by UPS before I found an FFL that would do it for $20 plus actual shipping (usually the med flat rate box mentioned earlier) through USPS. Usually means it cost me $35ish with insurance vs $65 UPS next day air. Also means I no longer have to get to a UPS hub.
Yeah, I'm thinking the same way. I just talked to a guy with an FFL because I thought I would have to use one based on what UPS originally told me (before I talked to them a 2nd time). He charges $20 plus shipping but he doesn't have to use 2nd day air so his shipping is a lot cheaper. So, it still ends up being cheaper to pay him $20 to do it. So, I may go that route.
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Old April 8, 2011, 12:23 PM   #22
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OP - the cheapest method of shipping is to find your local FFL and have hi use his FFL to ship via the USPS - even with a fee, it will be cheaper than UPS overnight
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Old April 8, 2011, 12:49 PM   #23
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Cost-wise almost every time I have shipped any distance at all it has been closer to $60 than $40. I generally have a set number in mind when I sell handguns on Gunbroker and at that point I will split the shipping costs with the buyer. Makes it a little more palatable for someone who has to pay shipping then the transfer fee from an FFL also. Can really add to the basic cost and things like a nice Ruger become too expensive to buy online - you just mosey over to the overpriced shop...
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Old April 8, 2011, 01:49 PM   #24
Hunter2678
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Just shipped my pistol off to Bill Springfield via Fed Ex overnight priority (required)...$75 (with insurance)....... OUCH!!!
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Old April 8, 2011, 03:53 PM   #25
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I had my H&K P7 shipped two weeks ago to H&K factory in Columbus GA, it was $63, so I do feel your pain.
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