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Old March 29, 2011, 10:21 AM   #1
trlrnr
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what sidearm are the SEALS currently issued?

anyone know this?
I have seen h&k 45---sig226---anything they want (in that case glock ;-0)
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Old March 29, 2011, 11:21 AM   #2
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The HK is the mark 23 I think... But I could be wrong.
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Old March 29, 2011, 11:37 AM   #3
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Did I hear the Sig and in 357?
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Old March 29, 2011, 11:48 AM   #4
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Last I heard, it was Sig Sauer P226 in 9mm. Unless it has changed recently.

Marcus Luttrell specifically mentions it in Lone Survivor. (a book that should be read by every American) Luttrell is very open and honest about the current PC state of our military and their politician big brothers.
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Old March 29, 2011, 12:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
In active service (some branches limited roles)

* Mk 23 Mod 0 (Naval Special Warfare)
* Mk 24 Mod 0 (SIG P226 Navy, 9x19mm) (Naval Special Warfare)
* M9A1 (9x19mm) (USMC)
* MEU(SOC) pistol (.45 ACP) (MEU(SOC))
* SIG P229R DAK (.40 S&W) (USCG)
* M1911A1 (.45 ACP) (Army)
* Heckler & Koch HK45 (.45 ACP) (Naval Special Warfare)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...._Armed_Forces
Don't know how up to date this is but when I was in the Colt 1911A1 was issued. It's been awhile since I have been in uniform...or been able to fit in one.
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Old March 29, 2011, 12:46 PM   #6
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The mark 23 with the LAM and Supressor is the size and weight of a submachinegun......i doubt they use it.
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Old March 29, 2011, 01:11 PM   #7
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The HK Mk23 is the same weight as a 1911A1. Is that too heavy?
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Old March 29, 2011, 01:45 PM   #8
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With LAM and supressor it is almost a foot and half long and just over 5 pounds, for comparison a mp7 with stock collapsed is the same size and weight.
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Old March 29, 2011, 02:10 PM   #9
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My buddy just became a SEAL two years ago. As of then they were still using the Sig 226 in 9mm. They have those huge HK 45's but he told me nobody uses them anymore, they are almost the size of an MP5 when they have a suppressor on them. I know Delta Force uses Glocks, and 1911's to a much lesser degree.
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Old March 29, 2011, 02:12 PM   #10
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The SEALS have a wide latitude in what they can procure and use. Some are still using S&W 686's.

I shot with a couple awhile back, and they said they were currently using Sig P226's in 9mm, but that selection varied according to team and current mission.
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Old March 29, 2011, 02:16 PM   #11
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Quote:

Quote:
In active service (some branches limited roles)

* Mk 23 Mod 0 (Naval Special Warfare)
* Mk 24 Mod 0 (SIG P226 Navy, 9x19mm) (Naval Special Warfare)
* M9A1 (9x19mm) (USMC)
* MEU(SOC) pistol (.45 ACP) (MEU(SOC))
* SIG P229R DAK (.40 S&W) (USCG)
* M1911A1 (.45 ACP) (Army)
* Heckler & Koch HK45 (.45 ACP) (Naval Special Warfare)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...._Armed_Forces

Don't know how up to date this is but when I was in the Colt 1911A1 was issued. It's been awhile since I have been in uniform...or been able to fit in one.
I think the Army still uses a limited number of M10 (Sig 228) for their criminal investigative branch.
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Old March 29, 2011, 02:18 PM   #12
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Not sure but I read Marcus Luttrels book Lone Survivor and he talks of them carrying Sigs.
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Old March 29, 2011, 02:23 PM   #13
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Its mostly SIG but they will change depending on their mission, there is no one Do-it-all gun.
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Old March 29, 2011, 02:30 PM   #14
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Some of the guys I've known...

... preferred the P226 over the MK23 because the MK23 is just too bulky and heavy for most people, especially if they are carrying other gear. After all, it's just a pistol, and normally pistols aren't first line of defense.
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Old March 29, 2011, 03:22 PM   #15
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They use whatever they need to accomplish their mission. It coud be almost anything. Revolvers are good if you don't want to leave brass at the scene so the US govt. can deny anyone was there.
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Old March 29, 2011, 05:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
They use whatever they need to accomplish their mission.
Guess that pretty much sums it up. I also want to recommend the book Lone Survivor if you haven't already read it.
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Old March 29, 2011, 06:37 PM   #17
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+1 on the Lone Survivor recommendation. Awesome book!!
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Old March 29, 2011, 08:29 PM   #18
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The SEAL I know carries a 226 9mm.
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Old March 29, 2011, 08:54 PM   #19
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...and Deagles. Work the counter of a gun shop on the weekend, and you'll hear that old saw at least twice.
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Old March 29, 2011, 09:24 PM   #20
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There is the HK45C with extended mag, threaded barrel and RF ID chip in the grip that may be in use. Local store received two by accident a few months back. They were pretty sweet with the light LEM triggers.
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Old March 29, 2011, 10:02 PM   #21
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9mm sig p226 seems to be their standard issue sidearm still. I'm sure it varies somewhat depending on their exact mission or duties. Counter terrorism units probably have more latitude in what they carry.

I read one of the handguns in Seal Armorys are suppressed .22 ruger mark III's.
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Old March 30, 2011, 02:47 AM   #22
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Select posts from the last 10 years at TacticalForums by Frogman. Active Duty SEAL

Here are a few select posts from the last 10 years or so by Frogman over at TacticalForums. He is an active duty SEAL and he's also done some T&E. Note the posts are dated so its not necessarily the most current up to date info.


Quote:
The SIG P226 and the MP-5N are the two most durable and longest service life weapons in SEAL Team armories. By comparison, the M4s last about 18 months before replacement. SEALs shoot thousands and thousands of rounds through all their assigned weapons every year.


Quote:
We have a few 9mm P228's for dignitary protection details. The P228's were incorporated into the Team about 2 years ago. They are both outstanding weapons. The P228 does afford a little more concealability, which is why we got them. Surprisingly the P226 is actually not too tough to hide on a muscular frame with a loose shirt or sweat shirt. Off-duty, SEAL’s get no special treatment. SEALs go get their own CCW permits if they want to pack heat in town, and quite a few do. SEALs often carry personal P226/228 SIGs away from work.
Quote:
SEALs still use SIGs. There seems to be a widespread belief on the internet that weapons changes happen very quickly in the military (or particularly in the Teams)- nothing could be further from the truth.
Quote:
We've been through this question a few times here. The Glocks haven't failed any test...they've never been tested. They do not have a positive safety lever nor are they true double action guns so the Navy is not interested in procuring them. Many SEALs have personally owned Glocks and like them quite well.
Quote:
You can’t really tell the Mk 23 story without telling parts of the Beretta and SIG story, as well. The Beretta 92F was largely the result of a specific SEAL Team urging Beretta to modify a few things with the standard 92 for the unit’s use. Things like moving the magazine release from the butt to the frame, re-shaping the trigger guard…etc. This particular SEAL Team had Beretta 92F’s before the U.S. military ever went to the “M9”. During the testing for the new U.S. standard issue sidearm SIG actually slightly outperformed the Beretta. I was told that it wasn’t chosen because Beretta slightly beat the price point over SIG. The real answer is probably a bit more complicated than that, but Beretta did eventually win . The trials lasted a long time during which life went on in the Teams…until Berettas starting failing in the SEAL Teams. I remember those days well. The Teams had a lot of loyalty to the pistol, but all of that ended when Beretta publicly accused the Teams of routinely firing “hot” ammo through the guns. Not a true statement. The Teams dropped the Beretta and were authorized to purchase an “interim” handgun to fill the bill until the ink was dry on the government standard sidearm contract. The Teams bought SIGs and began a loyalty o that system which persists even still.

It wasn’t too long before Army SOF began to sour on the Beretta. Their problem was that they already had M1911A1’s on their TOA&E. The military being what it is, you can only have one caliber of a particular type of like equipment. Army SOF began to work the issue by conceptualizing an “Offensive Handgun” different in definition and .45 ACP. This was just post Desert Storm. SEAL SIGs had been in inventory for 2-3 years and folks were starting to recall that the P226 was only an “interim” buy. Someone was caught using improper justification for a second purchase of SIGs by Congress. During the dust-up which followed Army SOF approached Navy SOF through Crane with the “Offensive Handgun” concept. The Navy could take the lead on the project and if it came off both the Army and Navy SOF would enjoy a new .45 cal handgun. The “Offensive Handgun” project felt the influences of many opinionated pistoleros. A long list of features was drawn up.

Eventually both Colt and HK submitted Phase One Prototypes for endurance testing. I was actually one of the SEALs who had to fire 30,000 rounds through a Colt and HK pistol over the course of a week in 1994 and document every failure. Not as fun as you might think.

We also took the revamped (Phase Two) prototypes to Rogers’ Shooting School for testing (that was fun) in early 1995. I and several other SEAL Team “bullet heads” went to the testing with malice in our hearts not only for the gun but the very concept of the gun. Our intent was to shoot it better than anyone else and then slam it in the critiques.

The gun grew on us haters. That simple. It was dead accurate, big- yes, but manageable. With a suppressor on it is unlike any other handgun.

It was finally issued around 1996 or so. I used it in winter warfare a lot, for over the beach work and diving. I preferred my SIG for assaults. Later in my career I did a lot more diving and over the beach work. The Mk 23 was awesome at that stuff. It is the best weapon to have in a hide site when lying up with a Team in a concealed position. You can bring it to bear day or night on anyone sneaking up on you. It is accurate even after blowing through your hide site material, the suppressor is pretty quiet and the LAM lets you get away with a lot. I used it and trained many other SEALs to use it very capably. The SEAL Teams that did not dive as much as, say, SDV Teams neglected their Mk 23’s. The Mk 23’s strengths were not as obvious to those guys who weren’t swimming and diving all the time. Last year a message came out to turn in all Mk 23’s to Crane. At least one SDV Team flatly refused. A few other Teams suddenly decided they should keep a “few”. So those at NAVSPECWARCOM who had sent the message in the first place restricted the expenditure of .45 ammo, instead. SDV Teams now have Mk 23s but no ammo allowance. They even ordered S&W 686’s from Crane to outfit their guys because a SIG will not survive a long dive very well. I know of a handful of guys who have taken their issue Mk 23’s overseas since the ammo cut-off because they know they can get the ammo there and have actually carried them in missions far from the water.

That’s the story in nutshell. What else would you like to know?


Quote:
To answer your questions, yes, the Mk 23 was nicely executed in that way. Even the magazines could survive a long night at sea.

The answer to your second question is far more disappointing. For 20 years I've seen weapons upgraded in the Teams. The policy for upgrading to new weapons was the same as it has always been for rotating SEAL platoon deployments. You did not send back the old until you received the new on site, where it mattered.

However, there was a historic paradigm shift last year when NAVSPECWARCOM ordered the withdrawal of Mk 23's from SEAL Team armories before a suitable replacement was on site. This marked the first time I can recall in 20 years that a weapon system was removed from a SEAL's inventory without there being a suitable replacement delivered first since the Stoner M63 series of machine guns was removed in the 1980's. It was roughly 20 years that SEAL Teams went without a 5.56mm LMG after that fateful decision. I wonder how long our guys will go without a suppressed maritime mission capable pistol.

Before the Mk 23 we had suppressed .22 cal Ruger Mark II's AND 9mm Hk P9S's. Once the inventory of Mk 23's was on site at each Team the other systems were thoughtfully sent back to Crane.

It looks like the Teams are just winging it now. It's BS, it's wrong, and as soon as someone dies because they didn't have a suppressed handgun available in the inventory it is criminal.

There are people in the NSW community who do know better. But, their voices are either being purposefully "suppressed" or they aren't speaking loud enough.

Great place to send your kids these days, isn't it?
There are rumours the MK23's were to replaced by H&K USP/C .45's with threaded barrels for suppressor. Haven't heard any confirmation if its actually happened.
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Last edited by IanS; March 30, 2011 at 02:54 AM.
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Old March 30, 2011, 07:14 AM   #23
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Great post Ian. Nothing beats cold hard facts straight from the horses mouth.
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Old March 30, 2011, 07:18 AM   #24
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I worked with the Seals in 1985. Back then each seal was issued a Sig 226 and a S&W .357 revolver. Someone posted that it was a 686, and I think that might be right. I can't imagine that the HK is the only handgun they issue these days, given the size of the thing.
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Old March 30, 2011, 10:32 PM   #25
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US Navy SEALs; DickMarcinko.com, sidearms...

I posted a message here last night that have been cut off due to a wifi issue.

To my limited knowledge, US Navy SEALs in the "Teams"(even #s US east coast, odd #s west US coast) carry a number of different pistols & weapons based on the mission(s) or deployment requirements.
In general the SIG P226R 9mm, the P228/M-11 9mm compact, the Kimber alloy frame compact 1911a1 .45acp & the big HK USSOCOM Mk 23 .45acp are used a lot.
The US Navy SWCC or specwar combat crewmen; the special boat crew members who transport spec ops units by watercraft use the M-11 compact sidearm & the HK Mark 23 .45acp. The USMC Special Operations Command issued the big Kimber Desert Warrior 1911a1 pistol but that may have changed.
The CAG or Combat Applications Group & the Navy's elite DEVGRU(Development Group), the counter-terrorist unit use the Glock 21 .45acp, the 1911a1 .45acp & a few new HK45 compact .45acp pistols for PSD(bodyguard details) or covert ops.
The standard M9 9mmNATO is also used by spec ops but not that much.
The S&W .357magnum revolvers were common in the 1960s/1970s/1980s. The Teams used custom black coated revolvers for water-borne operations; oil rigs, ships, piers, etc.
For more details read Rogue Warrior, First SEAL, Combat Swimmer, or Red Cell. Former SEAL officer; Richard "Demo Dick" Marcinko can offer a lot of insight. www.DickMarcinko.com .

If you have the time and are in southeast FL, visit the US Navy SEAL/UDT museum in Fort Pierce.
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