Pistol felt recoil for compition

Rig Magician · March 28, 2011, 09:09 PM

I am loading 9mm and 45acp right now that I shoot in USPSA and IDPA at home. I want to find out what is the best combination to lower felt recoil to allow quicker shoots for double taps and such. I also plan on changing out my recoil springs to help out with this.
Would a lighter bullet with faster powder be better than a hevier one with slow powder? Do some powders yeild a lower recoil? I had one guy tell me that a lower weight bullet with a faster powder is better.
SO what is some of the compition guys thoughts on this?
Thanks,
Mark

BDS-THR · March 28, 2011, 09:27 PM

Make/model of pistol and bullet type/weights would help.

I have used W231/HP38 the past 16 years for match loads in 9mm/40S&W and 45ACP.

I prefer 124/5 gr in 9mm over 115 gr bullets as the heavier bullet does a better job cycling the slide. With the lighter 115 gr bullet, I find myself pushing near max load data. With 124/5 gr FMJ/plated bullet, 4.3-4.5 gr of W231/HP38 at 1.125"-1.135" for mild recoil and accurate loads.

For 45 ACP, hands down 200 gr SWC - My favorite target load is 5.0 gr W231/HP38 at 1.25"-1.27" OAL. The load produces light recoil and capable of 1" shot groups at 25 yards.

Rig Magician · March 28, 2011, 09:59 PM

The 9mm is a Glock 17. I just started working up loads for it with 124g lead flat points and Hp-38
The 45 is a XDm, I am loading missouri bullet IDP#4 200g flat points in it. I am also loading those with hp-38.
I am at work and do not have my numbers as for charge weight and OAL for eaither with me.
I also just bought a Tungsten guide rod for both and new recoild springs to play with in the Glock.
Mark

Jim243 · March 28, 2011, 10:37 PM

I don't think playing with the load would be the right way to go. A) you could be under min. and B) it will effect relieability of feeding and extraction. I think you are headed in the right direction by changing out the springs. I set my loads (9mm) 0.50 grains under max and increased by 2 lbs my recoil spring. Seems like faster recovery times and quicker shots (IDPA).

Jim

ipscchef · March 29, 2011, 12:47 AM

When I was shooting IPSC some years ago, using a Kimber 1911 in .45acp, my friend and I went to a 250gr. Lazercast bullet meant for the .45 Colt, with the initial idea being that the increased mass would knock down the steel and Pepper Poppers better. It did seem to work for that purpose and I stuck with that load with W231 for many years. But the main reason we kept loading with that round is that we were able to get off our double taps quicker due to the recoil being more of a "shove" than a "snap". The sights seemed to settle back down on target more easily. Having said that, a lot of the better shooters were going with the 9x23 rounds and making major. The theory being that the bullet got out of the barrel quicker, making the second shot quicker for them, and the barrel did not have a chance to climb more.
But for me anyway, the heavier round seemed to get me back on target quicker. BTW, we used an 18 lb. Wolff spring for this purpose.
JMHO, and as always, YMMV.
Willy

BDS-THR · March 29, 2011, 01:38 AM

Rig Magician,

If you are shooting lead 9mm, 124/5 gr will cycle the G17 slide at 4.0-4.3 gr. From Hodgdon's website:

Quote:

125 gr Lead CN HP-38 Dia .356" OAL 1.125" Start 3.9 gr (1009 fps) 25,700 CUP - Max 4.4 gr (1086 fps) 31,200 CUP

For lead 45ACP, I found that IDP #4 200 gr RNFP shoots more accurately seated down to 1.195" OAL than longer OAL at 1.25" using 5.0 gr of W231/HP38.

With the shorter OAL, accuracy was comparable to that of IDP #1 200 gr SWC loads with the same charge of powder.

Have you tried shooting SWC out of your XDm? XDm has modified slide rib and will reliably extract/feed SWC bullets.

Quote:

200 gr CAST LSWC HP-38 Dia .451" OAL 1.225" Start 4.4 gr (771 fps) 11,000 CUP - Max 5.6 gr (914 fps) 16,900 CUP

Rig Magician · March 29, 2011, 03:14 AM

No I have not tried the SWC. I knew there was a problem with the slide and the older XD's would not feed the SWC. I will have to see if mine has the new slide, but I am guessing it does. I just got it last time home and haven't gotten to shoot it much yet.
Does anyone know where you can find the recoil springs for the XDm 45 yet? I have not been able to find any.
Also is how do you figure out if you need a heavier or lighter spring.
Thanks for all of the info.
Mark

jmorris · March 30, 2011, 08:24 AM

Heavy bullet fast powder, is what you want. You won't find a better 9mm minor load than 3.1 of vita vouri N310 behind a berry's 147 @ 1.160". I use clays and precision or berrys 230's for 45.

dlb435 · March 30, 2011, 09:29 AM

BDS-THR has it right. I use 115 gr bullets and load to a standard load range. This will cycle the Glock just fine but you have to put up with that "snappy" feel. My 1911 Gold Cup has a reduced tension spring so the loads can be very light and still cycle the gun.
Has anybody played around with low spring tension on a Glock?

ipscchef · March 30, 2011, 12:22 PM

Rig Magician, Have you tried Numrich Arms or Brownells?
I am pretty sure that Wolff would make springs for your gun, but I cannot remember if they have direct sales or not. I have not had to buy springs in a while as the last time I did I bought enough to last a few decades!

If you Google up those three, I feel certain that at least one of those companies would be able to help you out.
I hope this helps.
Willy

March 29, 2011, 12:47 AM	#5
ipscchef Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: South Central Pa. Posts: 422	When I was shooting IPSC some years ago, using a Kimber 1911 in .45acp, my friend and I went to a 250gr. Lazercast bullet meant for the .45 Colt, with the initial idea being that the increased mass would knock down the steel and Pepper Poppers better. It did seem to work for that purpose and I stuck with that load with W231 for many years. But the main reason we kept loading with that round is that we were able to get off our double taps quicker due to the recoil being more of a "shove" than a "snap". The sights seemed to settle back down on target more easily. Having said that, a lot of the better shooters were going with the 9x23 rounds and making major. The theory being that the bullet got out of the barrel quicker, making the second shot quicker for them, and the barrel did not have a chance to climb more. But for me anyway, the heavier round seemed to get me back on target quicker. BTW, we used an 18 lb. Wolff spring for this purpose. JMHO, and as always, YMMV. Willy __________________ Don' keep shooting them until you think they are dead, Keep shooting them until they think they are dead.- Clint Smith

March 30, 2011, 12:22 PM	#10
ipscchef Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: South Central Pa. Posts: 422	Springs Rig Magician, Have you tried Numrich Arms or Brownells? I am pretty sure that Wolff would make springs for your gun, but I cannot remember if they have direct sales or not. I have not had to buy springs in a while as the last time I did I bought enough to last a few decades! If you Google up those three, I feel certain that at least one of those companies would be able to help you out. I hope this helps. Willy __________________ Don' keep shooting them until you think they are dead, Keep shooting them until they think they are dead.- Clint Smith

March 28, 2011, 09:09 PM	#1
Rig Magician Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Pineville, La. Posts: 64	Pistol felt recoil for compition I am loading 9mm and 45acp right now that I shoot in USPSA and IDPA at home. I want to find out what is the best combination to lower felt recoil to allow quicker shoots for double taps and such. I also plan on changing out my recoil springs to help out with this. Would a lighter bullet with faster powder be better than a hevier one with slow powder? Do some powders yeild a lower recoil? I had one guy tell me that a lower weight bullet with a faster powder is better. SO what is some of the compition guys thoughts on this? Thanks, Mark

March 28, 2011, 09:27 PM	#2
BDS-THR Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2010 Posts: 469	Make/model of pistol and bullet type/weights would help. I have used W231/HP38 the past 16 years for match loads in 9mm/40S&W and 45ACP. I prefer 124/5 gr in 9mm over 115 gr bullets as the heavier bullet does a better job cycling the slide. With the lighter 115 gr bullet, I find myself pushing near max load data. With 124/5 gr FMJ/plated bullet, 4.3-4.5 gr of W231/HP38 at 1.125"-1.135" for mild recoil and accurate loads. For 45 ACP, hands down 200 gr SWC - My favorite target load is 5.0 gr W231/HP38 at 1.25"-1.27" OAL. The load produces light recoil and capable of 1" shot groups at 25 yards.

March 28, 2011, 09:59 PM	#3
Rig Magician Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Pineville, La. Posts: 64	The 9mm is a Glock 17. I just started working up loads for it with 124g lead flat points and Hp-38 The 45 is a XDm, I am loading missouri bullet IDP#4 200g flat points in it. I am also loading those with hp-38. I am at work and do not have my numbers as for charge weight and OAL for eaither with me. I also just bought a Tungsten guide rod for both and new recoild springs to play with in the Glock. Mark

March 28, 2011, 10:37 PM	#4
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2009 Posts: 3,615	I don't think playing with the load would be the right way to go. A) you could be under min. and B) it will effect relieability of feeding and extraction. I think you are headed in the right direction by changing out the springs. I set my loads (9mm) 0.50 grains under max and increased by 2 lbs my recoil spring. Seems like faster recovery times and quicker shots (IDPA). Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

March 29, 2011, 03:14 AM	#7
Rig Magician Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Pineville, La. Posts: 64	No I have not tried the SWC. I knew there was a problem with the slide and the older XD's would not feed the SWC. I will have to see if mine has the new slide, but I am guessing it does. I just got it last time home and haven't gotten to shoot it much yet. Does anyone know where you can find the recoil springs for the XDm 45 yet? I have not been able to find any. Also is how do you figure out if you need a heavier or lighter spring. Thanks for all of the info. Mark

March 30, 2011, 08:24 AM	#8
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 1,355	Heavy bullet fast powder, is what you want. You won't find a better 9mm minor load than 3.1 of vita vouri N310 behind a berry's 147 @ 1.160". I use clays and precision or berrys 230's for 45.

March 30, 2011, 09:29 AM	#9
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	BDS-THR has it right. I use 115 gr bullets and load to a standard load range. This will cycle the Glock just fine but you have to put up with that "snappy" feel. My 1911 Gold Cup has a reduced tension spring so the loads can be very light and still cycle the gun. Has anybody played around with low spring tension on a Glock?