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Old March 27, 2011, 06:13 PM   #1
76r
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Savage 1899 I.D.

I had such a good response with help in identifying my S&W revolver, that I thought I would 'ask the experts' for their input again.

I have an old Savage lever action rifle that my uncle (deceased) gave to me years ago before I was old enough to care about it's background. (The same story of the revolver.)

The description is as follows:
-The serial number is #132707 and is stamped on the bottom of the reciever ahead of the lever pivot, and on the steel butt of the forestock where there is also an 'F' stamp, AND on the forestock wood where the steel butt is mounted.
-It is a takedown model
-It is a straight lever
-I have 2 bbls. for it. (a '22HP' that I believe is the one that is the original,
and a '30-30' bbl)
-Both barrels are manufacture stamped Utica, NY with dates
-The 22 HP is marked 'model 1899'; the 30-30 is not marked with a model
-Both barrels are 20" long
-They both have integral base front sights, and semi buckhorn rear sights
-There is a '22' stamp in the copper revolving magazine body.
-The forestock is a heavy schnoble style
-The rear stock is homemade is not original
-The rear of the breechbolt is stamped '707' ( last serial # digits?)
-There is a 'Z' stamped in the face of the reciever where the forestock mounts.

I would appreciate any info/I.D. you may be able to provide.
Thanx

Last edited by 76r; March 27, 2011 at 06:21 PM.
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Old March 27, 2011, 06:31 PM   #2
James K
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I think that is the Model 99H; they were made in .22 HP, .25-35, .30-30 and .303 Savage, with a 20" lightweight barrel and straight pistol grip, made from 1905 to 1915.

The marking on the carrier spindle indicates the original caliber (if the spindle has not been altered). Those spindles are marked because they are very specific to the caliber, and I am not sure a .22 HP spindle will work with .30-30, even if you put in the .30-30 barrel. Is the rifle a take down type with the spare barrel only having to be locked into place, or would the extra barrel have to be screwed in using a barrel vise and wrench?

Value runs from around $500 in 60% condition up to $1400 or more if NIB. With a homemade buttstock, yours would be at the lower end or below, unless the rest of the rifle is in top condition - unlikely as that might be. I am not sure how much the extra barrel would add; it depends partly on the answer to the question about a takedown model.

Jim
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Old March 27, 2011, 07:56 PM   #3
76r
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Jim,
Thanx for the reply.
The barrels are removable by turning them 1/4 counterclockwise and presto!
I am not pursuing selliing the firearm, just interested in IDing the model/sub class, and date. It is of sentimental value for family reasons, and it is also the gun I shot my first deer and first moose with 30+ years ago!
(He had the 30-30 bbl on back then.)
What is the difference betweeen the '1899' and '99' model designations? I see both used as seperate models?
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Old March 28, 2011, 01:15 PM   #4
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"What is the difference betweeen the '1899' and '99' model designations? I see both used as seperate models?"

The model designation was changed right after World War I with the introduction of the .250 and .300 Savage cartridges.

IIRC, receiver steel formulation was changed, as was the heat treating process to allow for the chambering of the new high pressure cartridges.

I don't believe that there were any dimensional changes to the receivers themselves; if there were, they were minor, and certainly not to the degree that changes were made after World War II when the .308 family of cartridges was introduced.
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Old March 28, 2011, 06:28 PM   #5
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[The serial number is #132707 and is stamped on the bottom of the reciever ahead of the lever pivot, and on the steel butt of the forestock where there is also an 'F' stamp, AND on the forestock wood where the steel butt is mounted.
-It is a takedown model
-It is a straight lever
-I have 2 bbls. for it. (a '22HP' that I believe is the one that is the original,
and a '30-30' bbl)
]

Interesting...........

The SN dates as made in 1913,
BUT
the configuration (confirmed by the "F" stamp) is that of a Model 99F Featherweight, which was a 20' bbl'd takedown, available in .22HP, .30-30, & .303 Savage.
( 22" in .250/3000 or 24" in .300 Savage)

The thing is, that Savage didn't introduce the Model 99F Featherweight until about 1925.

Maybe, the receiver, etc, was warehoused from 1913, until it was finished & stamped after 1925 as a 99F........

I dunno, I wasn't there.

.
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Old March 28, 2011, 09:19 PM   #6
76r
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I notice I neglected to mention an 'H' in a circle ahead of the lever hinge on the bottom of the reciever.
No doubt this may be important?
Sorry, I thought I had covered everthing.
(Perhaps this coroborates Jim's ID as an 'H' model?)
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Old March 29, 2011, 09:21 AM   #7
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Early Savages were NOT marked with a model designation, which can make them a chore to figure out. You have to go by features.

Model marking didn't start until after World War II.

The various letters and such on the barrel and receiver are production codes, proof codes, etc.
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Old March 30, 2011, 10:45 PM   #8
76r
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That stirs things up a bit more then, eh?
So the "H" & 'F' marks are most likely production codes and not model designations then, Mike?
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Old March 31, 2011, 08:59 AM   #9
Mike Irwin
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Wait, I think I misread your original message...

The "F" markings...

Are they visible when the gun is assembled?

Savage DID apparently stamp model designations on hidden parts of the wood forearm and/or stock at various points in time, apparently so they could keep the stocks straight during the manufacturing process.


But, as I noted, Savage did not mark the rifles with a model letter designation in a visible spot on the receiver until after World War II.
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Old March 31, 2011, 05:15 PM   #10
PetahW
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Savage stamped the model ("F", "G", etc) into the receiver's front metal on some guns, visible only after removing the forend.

Here's a Model 99-EG so stamped:


The circled "H" on the receiver bottom near the lever hinge might be a Lever Boss Code (LBC), which is a manufacturing date code for a rifle's DOM - BUT the LBC's only started in 1949, IIRC.

I misread the OP, thinking the "F" stamp was in the front of the receiver metal, ILO the forend wood & iron.

I don't know what the "Z" stamp in the receiver front metal signifies.

I think I'd need to see a few pics of the rifle, including full-length shots, to comment further.


.

Last edited by PetahW; March 31, 2011 at 05:46 PM.
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Old March 31, 2011, 06:52 PM   #11
76r
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Mike & PetahW,
Thanx for your perseverence guys.
I am uploading some pics I just took to better describe 'the layout' .
I appreciate your opinions.
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Old March 31, 2011, 07:13 PM   #12
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FORESTOCK END MOUNT SHOWING THE "F" STAMP LOCATION



ROTARY MAG



LEVER HINGE ON RECIEVER BOTTOM SHOWING "H" STAMP LOCATION



FRONT END OF RECIEVER SHOWING THE 'Z' STAMP LOCATION

Last edited by 76r; March 31, 2011 at 07:54 PM.
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Old March 31, 2011, 07:16 PM   #13
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ANOTHER OF RECIEVER BOTTOM & SERIAL#







BACK END OF FORESTOCK


Last edited by 76r; April 2, 2011 at 07:51 PM.
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Old March 31, 2011, 07:22 PM   #14
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I took pics of anything that had a serial number, or any other number, on it.



BACK END OF BOLT

Last edited by 76r; March 31, 2011 at 07:28 PM.
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Old March 31, 2011, 07:50 PM   #15
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PetahW
The 'Z' on my reciever is in the same location as the 'E G' is on yours (?)
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Old April 1, 2011, 06:39 PM   #16
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Yes, but my pic is not of a takedown receiver.

I'm thinking that Savage marked takedown receivers with someting else - like that "Z" - and then marked the forend/takedown iron with a particular takedown model's letter, "F" in your case (there were other takedown models besides the "F").

Do you have a full-length pic of the assembled rifle, with either barrel ?
Or, at least, the stock & forend (from the side) ?

.
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Old April 2, 2011, 07:50 PM   #17
76r
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PetahW,
I've got it dissassembled to reblue but I will patch it back together for a photo. The rear stock is not the original. It is apparently a homemade job to replace a broken original. I have ordered a replacement for it.






Last edited by 76r; April 3, 2011 at 01:35 PM.
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Old April 4, 2011, 08:14 AM   #18
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I don't get to check this forum too often, but this caught my eye. Did you try to feed 30-30 through it? I have a take-down 30-30 apart in a box I bought a couple years ago and if I get time I may make a spare .22 H.P. barrel for it. The carriers are not as close as you think and are rarely marked. I have a .303 take-down I made a spare 7-30 waters barrel for and it feeds flawlessly. I had a solid frame .303 I converted to .250 and it fed perfectly. The counter numbers did not line up, but at the time you could not get .303 brass anyway.

The Model 99 and 1899 designation had some changes. The picture you have is not clear but it looks like the locking area of the bolt has a radius. The earlier bolts were flat there, had different cocking pieces, the front of the bolt was a little different, and the early ones had a cocking indicator on the bolt. The other guys are right, a lot of the guns vary because it took a while to get the changes into the production. I worked on '99s that had been sent back to the factory to have the changes done after the guns were already sold. I don't collect but have worked on quite a few and the early ones are hard to pin down as to when they were made. A collector forum could probably help you more with that.

Last edited by Gunplummer; April 4, 2011 at 08:16 AM. Reason: forgot something
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Old April 4, 2011, 01:13 PM   #19
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Thanks for taking the trouble to reassemble it for a few pics.

If the knob of the pistol grip was rasped off to make the buttstock a proper straight grip, it would look exactly like every other early Model F Featherweight I've ever seen.



Only the late "F"'s (.308, etc) has a PG stock & non-schnobble forend.


.

Last edited by PetahW; April 4, 2011 at 01:21 PM.
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Old April 6, 2011, 09:15 AM   #20
76r
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PetahW-OK then...a model 99F it is!

Mike- No, the F (and Z) is only visible when the stock is removed.

Gunplummer-Yes I have loaded 30-30 cartridges into the carrier and they feed fine. (I didn't even know the carrier was for a 22 until I dissasembled it)

Thanx again for all the help and info.
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