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Old March 26, 2011, 11:14 PM   #1
Glenn Bartley
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Who Carries A Gun & An Alternate Weapon With Which You Have Been Trained?

When I carry a firearm, I almost always carry at least one other weapon with which I am not only familiar but for the use of which I have received training. In my case, that can be either a backup pistol, pepper spray or an expandable baton. I like to have various options open to me as to the type of force I may need to use if a gun (use of deadly force) would not be appropriate.

So who among you does likewise? In answering please try to limit the alternate weapon to anything that actually is manufactured to be a weapon and one you have been trained to use. Training can be any sort from professional instruction to a friend teaching you to self trained.

All the best,
Glenn B
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Old March 26, 2011, 11:33 PM   #2
Sefner
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I carry a "tactical" flashlight with me. By tactical I mean it has a 200+ lumen light that is very focused. Can't really say I've been "trained" other than "shine light at BG, run" kinda thing. I carry it to class cuz I can't have my gun on campus. Not the best thing but it has to do. Pepper spray is banned on campus. As are knives over 3". I have a leatherman that is 2.5" but I don't want to risk my college career and financial standing over a leatherman. Plus a leatherman is not a self-defense tool.
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Old March 27, 2011, 10:55 AM   #3
WeedWacker
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I always have a knife on me. Sometimes I carry a small baton for pressure points and locks, but I'd rather have a more intimidating force as I can do just as well with my hands bare as when armed with the baton.
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Old March 27, 2011, 11:10 AM   #4
MrDontPlay
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I'm carry a knife but really just as a tool. I've thought of getting a tactical pen too
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Old March 27, 2011, 12:12 PM   #5
Deaf Smith
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Hands and feet son. I'm well trained with them. Many many years well trained.

My options are simple. Gun or H2H.

Deaf
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Old March 27, 2011, 01:51 PM   #6
smince
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Gun

2 Knives

Hands/Feet/Knees/Elbows (etc)

I've been trained to use them
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Old March 27, 2011, 03:23 PM   #7
AK103K
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Guns

Knives

Body parts

and a "teacup".

Im not afraid to use the truck or car either.
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Old March 27, 2011, 03:31 PM   #8
Whirlwind06
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Knife - have basic ongoing training.

Pepper spray - self thought.

H2H - basic training on going training.
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Old March 27, 2011, 05:18 PM   #9
SauerJackson
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I carry a spring loaded knife as well as a .45acp, but both would be considered "lethal force". My ccw instructor very specifically warned me about keeping non-lethal weapons on my persons while carrying! Maybe it is just because Minnesota is only a few years into being a "shall issue" state, and has a stupid clause that says I'm required to try running away first when being confronted by a BG..... But because of these kind of gray areas, I would have to pretty much already be shot in order to convince a jury that my tazer/baton whatever the case wouldn't have stopped the BG and I was justified in pulling a gun.
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Old March 28, 2011, 06:56 AM   #10
Whirlwind06
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Quote:
If you have ASP baton or knife out, then obviously you are doing something wrong. You should be hiding out somewhere with your cell phone calling in the highly paid law enforcement officers to do their job.
To bad the bad guys don't always let you retreat and call the police.
I can't always carry a firearm. I can almost always have a knife, pepper spray. Always have my hands and my head.

There is a difference between looking for trouble and being prepared to defend yourself when trouble finds you.
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Old March 28, 2011, 07:11 AM   #11
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When I was young, I was trained in unarmed combat and knife fighting. But I have to be honest with myself, that as I approach 50 years old, I am no longer able to perform like the hard 20 year old of those days. It's gun only for me.
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Old March 28, 2011, 07:26 AM   #12
LouCap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timetohunt View Post
This thread promotes an unsafe message. In a self defense situation on the street, your concern should be getting away, being a good witness, calling the police or using deadly force as a last resort. Carrying around knives, pepper spray and batons makes it seem like you want to enforce the law. There are plenty of highly paid law enforcement officers who are specifically trained to do that job. Even if you are an off-duty officer, then most departments advocate that you be a good witness and let the on-duty officers handle the situation.

If you have ASP baton or knife out, then obviously you are doing something wrong. You should be hiding out somewhere with your cell phone calling in the highly paid law enforcement officers to do their job.
+1

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Old March 28, 2011, 07:26 AM   #13
Glenn Bartley
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TimeToHunt,

This thread, with all due respect, is not promoting anything except maybe you promoting a misinterpretation or misunderstanding of it. Where did anyone suggest that anything illegal or unethical be done? A question was asked that is all. Statements were made as to what weapons people carry, that is all. No one said - hey - go out to do something illegal, unethical or immoral. There is absolutely nothing wrong with carrying other defensive weapons where allowed by law.

Quote:
In a self defense situation on the street, your concern should be getting away...
No getting away should not always be your concern, and certainly never the main one. The main concern you should have in any situation wherein you are threatened with imminent serious bodly injury or death is that you defend yourself sufficiently to survive. So when a bad guy grabs you from behind and throws you to the ground and starts stabbing you, tell me - are you going to run away? I could name thousands of other types of situations that require immediate 'fight not flight' action on the part of the victim. People would never carry weapons at all if in fact they were always required to get away. The fact is that is not a requirement if you reasonably believe you cannot escape without being harmed. If you ca escape unharmed, great but if not - then what? So what would you do then. Would you choose to always shoot someone instead of using lesser force? There are many situations where you could be attacked and need to use force to help you survive or even to be able to get away yet where deadly force would not be justified.

In fact, if you only carry a gun - then you may be doing something wrong or promoting bad behavior if only because you are not giving yourself the option of lesser force than deadly force. If you do not understand that then I suggest you learn the continum of force. You may be required to try to escape if possible but when escape is not possible and harm to you is imminent then you would be less than intelligent not to defend yourself with a legal weapon if you had one. If the amount of force being used on you does not justify deadly force yet does justify use of soft techniques or hard force in return, then tell me - would legal pepper spray or another legal weapon such as a legal expandable baton not be a possible, ethical and intelligent alternative to use of deadly force.

Bear in mind, no police department or law enforcement agency, in this country of which I am aware, tells their officers to only be a good witness when they are threatened with imminent deadly force or risk of serious bodily injury while they are off duty. Many state laws do not require their police officers, even those off duty, to retreat when threatened in such a manner - in fact, many do not even require non-law enforcement civilians to retreat.

Also bear in mind, we are talking about carrying weapons for self defense not about being John Wayne, or the flaming avenger or Paul Kersey. We were talking about whether or not people carry alternate weapons.

All the best,
GB
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Last edited by Glenn Bartley; March 28, 2011 at 07:33 AM.
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Old March 28, 2011, 07:40 AM   #14
docnyt
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Timetohunt is either being facetious or he's from Britain.
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Old March 28, 2011, 12:42 PM   #15
irish52084
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Besides a pistol, I usually carry a knife. Beyond that, I have and continue to train to defend myself in H2H. I think self defense training and learning truly effective means of using your body as a weapon are important for everyone that is physically able to do so. There is no simulating fisticuffs and how to move people who are resisting.
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Old March 28, 2011, 02:04 PM   #16
plotdog99
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Gun, knife, only level 1 in knife and counter knife combatives. Fixing to start hapkido.
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Old March 28, 2011, 02:28 PM   #17
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Glock 19 9mm and tactical 3.5" folder. Instructor level in Hapkido with weapons proficiency in short bladed knife, escrima, and ligature. I'd carry an asp if I could do so comfortably, and consider myself better armed with it than the knife.

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Old March 28, 2011, 02:32 PM   #18
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Well said Irish.....
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Old March 28, 2011, 02:58 PM   #19
ripnbst
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Almost always have a 3" folder on me and will carry my firearm when I get CCW in OK since I recently moved here from PA.
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Old March 28, 2011, 03:41 PM   #20
markj
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Never felt the need to carry anything less than lethal. H2H used to ne the norm but in todays world they just dont do that.

My cousin a police officer told me that things like a baton could convey something that may not be true so I often have a large d cell flashlite in the vehicle. A baton is used for one thing, a flashlite is for liteing up the place.

Why would you use anything other than a gun? if you beat a guy with a steel object you are assaulting another, if it is that bad then shoot him. Beat him you may be sued or arrested IMHO.
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Old March 28, 2011, 05:41 PM   #21
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Don't claim to be an expert knife fighter, but have had some real instruction on how to employ one, and always carry a Benchmade folder that is big enough and sturdy enough to function as a weapon.

On the street, also carried the usual assortment of intermediate weapons, but I don't carry pepper spray and a baton when I go out on my own time.
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Old March 28, 2011, 05:56 PM   #22
retiredcoasty
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TineToHunt, there was a time that I could ‘get away’. Now, due to horribly disfigured legs, I can no longer run or even walk fast. I own a real estate company and I routinely sell properties that are vacant. Many of these properties will have squatters or druggies stealing copper for a fix. They sometimes get a little ‘uppity’ if you know what I mean. Also, I sell a lot of multi-family homes where drug dealers work and live with their pitbulls and where ‘working girls’ walk the streets. The incidence of gunfire in these areas is fairly high but most – but not all – shots occur at night.

Funny thing about folks strung out on drugs and those that sell those drugs, their goal is normally not to run to get away. So I must be ready for anything. I am not the Rambo type but I must be ready in case the human feces hits the oscillating blades. Thus far I have been able to talk my way out of situations, but sooner or later, my luck will run out. So, for the wellbeing of my clients and myself, I must be prepared. However, I will never start trouble and I will always try to talk my way out of challenging situations.

I carry a S&W 38 or a S&W 40 M&P. I sometimes also carry a knife but view it more as a tool. Lastly when viewing vacant homes, I have a flashlight with a very strong beam (200 lumens or more). The beam can be confusing as it is extremely bright. And lastly, I have a cell phone which can dial 911 quickly… always a great step when given time!
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Old March 28, 2011, 10:19 PM   #23
irish52084
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Thank you SauerJackson.

retiredcoasty, you make a great point about the flashlight, it can be a potent tool. Few tings are more annoying and shocking than a bright light to the eyes. I never bought into flashlights until I bought one for my home defense pistol. Now I understand how useful they can be.
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Old March 28, 2011, 10:45 PM   #24
retiredcoasty
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TimeToHunt, there is wisdom in your words. But our personal safety comes down to the individual being the first line of defense. The individual is responsible for their own safety. Even if we call 911, the police will not be on-scene for four minutes minimum. A lot can happen in four minutes. That said, I feel the using any weapon is a last-ditch action. The best way to avoid a conflict is to avoid it. So, if we can back out, we will. If we can talk our way out of trouble, we will.

I have four police officers in my office and nearly a quarter of my clients are cops. We have discussed this issue a lot because I have ten female agents. Their safety is a paramount issue. As the business owner, I am obligated to minimize dangerous situations for my agents. And for all of us, dialing 911 is the first thing done. Leaving the area follows closely behind 911. And thus far, those two tactics have worked.

TJ
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Old March 28, 2011, 11:06 PM   #25
irish52084
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timetohunt, I have to disagree with you strongly. If I have the option to use a weapon other than a gun to defend myself, it's better than not having one. Why do cops carry batons, mace, taser etc...? They are there for less lethal responses.

What makes the gun less likely to be taken from someone than another weapon like a baton or knife? If they snatched your baton and are trying to beat you with it, use your gun. The secondary weapon allows you a chance to end a situation without lethal force and may save you some legal headaches.

What about a 100LBS woman who is cornered and being assaulted by a 200+LBS rapist who reaches into her pocket and grabs her knife to stab her attacker and escape? Would you say to her that her knife is too likely to get taken from her and she shouldn't have carried it? What hypocrisy it is when we advocate the use of a gun for self defense, but not a knife or baton.

I carry a gun because I don't know what situation I will be confronted with today or tomorrow, or ever. I carry for the unknown and I refuse to play the odds with my life or the lives of my family. Crazy people don't make appointments to attack you, and if I could stop them without killing them, I would prefer that and a weapon other than a gun helps to facilitate that. I didn't spend my time training to protect myself because it was fun being choked, taken down, thrown, punched, kicked or kneed. I did it to be better prepared for all situations.
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