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Old March 18, 2011, 10:24 AM   #1
shrewd
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Mosin nagant for Appleseed?

I've been shooting alot lately and am really developing a passion (obsession?) for it. I've heard a bit about Appleseed and it sounds awesome. I'll probably buy a 10/22 for it but currently have no auto centerfire; my only rifles are a marlin 1894c and a 91/30.

With enough stripper clips, the reloading time should'nt be that bad, right?

I'm saving up for that AR, but in the meantime, is this feasible?
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Old March 18, 2011, 10:49 AM   #2
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From what I understand the Appleseed Shoots use the old military CQT using reduced targets at 25 yards. I've never shot Appleseed but shot a lot of those targets in the CNGB Postal Matches.

They aren't that hard with the proper rifle.

I love the Mosin. Once one learns to shoot it, its accurate, reliable and easy to use.

How ever, it takes some work to use the stripper clips, and work the bolt in rapid fire. Plus the sights aren't real good for pin point shooting you're gonna have in shooting the 400 yards stages of the CQT (little bitty reduced targets).

I would recommend you barrow another rifle, a 22 with aperture sights or scope. One that can easily be loaded for the rapid fire stages.

Also unless you have a lot of experience, the recoil will throw off your timing in rapid fire on those little targets. Hours of dryfiring, working the bolt will help quite a bit.

If you were to move back to 200 yards like that shot in the CMP GSM Vintage Military Rifle matches, then the Mosin would work fine.

To check it out, or practice, get some NRA 50 Ft Small Bore targets and try them with your Mosin. Reloading with Mosin Stripper clips is an art that takes lots of practice.
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Old March 18, 2011, 11:13 AM   #3
madmo44mag
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I love my Mosin but in any kind of competitive shooting would take a Mauser action rifle.
The Yugo VZ 24 are fairly cheap, under 250.00 and ammo is cheap and a much better performer than the Mosin.
Even the Enfield Mk4 #1 is a better choice.
The Mosin is a great rifle but there are better for not much more money that will out perform with less issues with ammo stripper clips.
The Enfeild has a detachable magazine.
The best IMHO is the Swiss k-31.
A little more expensive but when it comes to fast and accurate an awesome military rifle of days gone by.

Sheepdog reminded me of the M1A.
The only down side is the cost of the rifle.
One of the greatest rifles ever made was the M1A.
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Last edited by madmo44mag; March 18, 2011 at 11:23 AM.
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Old March 18, 2011, 11:17 AM   #4
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As an Appleseed Instructor, I have to say biggest thing shooters fail on the AQT is time. That's why we like detachable magazine rifles, whether it's a .22 or a M1A.

The first day you can probably start off with the .22 and learn the techniques, and the second day you will usually move to the full KD range-if the location has a KD range.

The Mosin would be fine, if you can reload it quickly. If not, you may get burned on your score, and possibly that coveted Rifleman's patch.

All I can say is practice loading that thing as fast as you can and get familiar with it.

Peep sights with positive clicks will serve better at KD ranges because if you know the dope of your rifle, you can adjust in clicks.

If you have any more questions, just send me a PM.
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Old March 18, 2011, 07:24 PM   #5
chris in va
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My friend tried to use a Mosin at an Appleseed (I was next to him). He had lots of trouble with the 'mag change' part, accuracy and a severely bruised shoulder.

Not recommended.
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Old March 18, 2011, 08:06 PM   #6
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I'd agree with thesheepdog....you CAN qualify with the Mosin.

BUT, I would recommend you start with a semi-auto mag-fed .22 rifle. To get all the positions down, learn the 6 steps to firing the shot, NPOA, all the "tools" you need. THEN practice with your Mosin. Unless you are an expert with the Mosin, you will get discouraged. I'm an Appleseed instructor too, and I've seen 2-3 guys attempt this, and get REAL frustrated.

I have 4 Mosins, one is a carbine that I am GOING to qualify with this year, come hell or high water! So I totally understand your desire to qualify with the Mosin. The biggest problem I've had to overcome is, as kraigwy said, is reloading. You've GOT to practice reloading with stripper clips, without cutting the crap out of your thumb! After playing with it for a couple weeks (and cutting the crap out of my thumb), I learned to grasp the top cartridge, thumb on top, index finger under the bullet and use it to force the other cartridges into the magazine. When you get that down, the AQT CAN be beaten.

Anyhow, my 2¢ worth. Get the 10/22, buy some Tech-sights (www.tech-sights.com) or a scope and a couple of extra mags, and you're ready to go.
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Old March 18, 2011, 08:11 PM   #7
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Oh, and BTW....many of our Appleseed ranges now offer KD (known distance) out to 500 yards or farther.

And, Appleseed is easy? Haven't heard that for a while...keep in mind, we DON'T use bipods, sandbags, etc. Just you and your trusty web sling. With the tools we give you, that's all you need....
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Old March 18, 2011, 08:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
And, Appleseed is easy? Haven't heard that for a while…
I must admit, I thought I’d have no problem. I told myself, heck, it’s only 25 yards. I thought with in a couple hours I’d get that Rifleman patch. Man did I get a rude awakening. Those simulated 400 yard silhouettes are very small. Very small.

I did get my Rifleman patch, but it took me until the last hour of day two. Of the 25 people on the line that weekend, only two of us made it. Both on the afternoon of day two.

But, if you have a decent rifle, and listen and follow what the instructors tell you, many people can do it. Not all, but many. The instructors are top notch, at least at the Apple Seed I attended. I plan to try again this year with a center fire semi auto. The first time was with a .22LR.
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Old March 18, 2011, 09:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
I must admit, I thought I’d have no problem. I told myself, heck, it’s only 25 yards. I thought with in a couple hours I’d get that Rifleman patch. Man did I get a rude awakening. Those simulated 400 yard silhouettes are very small. Very small.
Thank you.....

Or, you could have done like I did....don't listen to the instructors (after all, I'd shot for 30 years, right?) and have a 13yr old girl beat you...so I got whupped and went home with my tail between my legs. Determination set in, and I DID listen to the instructors, and earned the Rifleman patch. The Instructor thing is a whole other story...
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Old March 19, 2011, 07:25 AM   #10
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Don't forget, with the ammo you go through on a normal Appleseed weekend, if you're shooting centerfire ammo you probably could buy a 22 just for the money saved on ammo.
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Old March 19, 2011, 08:18 PM   #11
4bfox
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And I wouldn't want to shoot a Mosin for 2 days, either!

The .22 is definitely a good idea for the training on Saturday and half of Sunday...then switch to the Mosin.
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Old March 20, 2011, 05:43 PM   #12
shrewd
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well, i bought a 10/22 today

after shooting the 30 or so 7.52x54r rounds that i had i whipped that bad boy out, but unfortunately i only had time for 50 rounds or so


boy, is that fun or what!

ive seen how customizable these puppies can be, but for now i'm happy with what ive got. its the wood stock, and only seems to be able to take the little drum round mags, but thats fine for now.

curiously, there seems to be only one attachement for a sling..? or is there none and its just for the barrel band?
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Old March 20, 2011, 06:51 PM   #13
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I definitely recommend starting Appleseed with a .22, but the most fun I've ever had at an Applessed is when I gave it a go with my Remington 700 PSS. I broke it out on the last AQT one Sunday afternoon and I was on par all the way up until I threw a round into the bolt raceway and jammed myself up on the last course of fire. If I remember correctly I ended up with a 195 and 7 rounds unfired.

You have got to work the heck out of a bolt gun to make it happen, but it can be done. (And as stated earlier, Appleseed is by no means easy!)
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Old March 20, 2011, 07:21 PM   #14
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I've been the guy next to the guy with the 91/30 at an Appleseed.

He did get better over the course of the weekend. But please don't be that guy, the muzzle blast isn't nice to your neighbors.

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Old March 20, 2011, 07:42 PM   #15
shrewd
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heres a quick question for you 10/22 guys


regarding tech sights, which is a better buy, the tsr100 or 200? i like the 200 due to the rear sight elevation mod, but i'm hearing that its harder to sight in at 25 meters? is this just for the 200, or tech sights in general? whats the scoop?
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Old March 20, 2011, 10:37 PM   #16
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Nah, you can sight either one in fine at 25m. I have the TSR-100 and have never missed having adjustable elevation at the rear sight. The TSR-100 has a dual aperture rear sight with apertures at different heights, which takes you from approximately a 25m zero to a 50m zero with just the flip of the aperture (which is all you need most of the time for a .22). You have more elevation adjustability with a TSR-200, but with the 100 you still have plenty of elevation adjustment at the front sight. The 200 requires a tool like a FMJ bullet tip or a ballpoint pen or something to adjust it anyway, just like the front sight.

Now on an SKS or AK or something that doesn't have nice MOA-incremented clicks at the front sight, I recommend the 200. But for one of TS' .22 kits that comes with the AR front sight, I don't really see much advantage in having elevation adjustment at the rear as well. The fact that the 100 is cheaper seals the deal for me.

Hopefully you've figured out that to mount a sling on your Ruger, you will need to drill your stock and install sling swivel studs as well as sling swivels. For Appleseed, you will want to get some 1 1/4" swivels so you can use a GI web sling, which will let you use all the sling techniques taught at Appleseed (which is an important part of the instruction). They are sold at the Appleseed store, or on E-bay. You want the web sling that is standard issue for the M-1 and M-14. You should be able to pick one up for $15 or less.

When you go to the Appleseed, bring both the 10/22 and the Mosin. You can practice the fundamentals and do most of your shooting with the .22, and then bring out the Mosin later in the weekend to apply your skills to it. Don't listen to those guys who complain about the recoil... you can handle it just fine if you listen to what the instructors are saying about turkey neck, cheek weld, and pocketing the stock. A .22 is great for learning the fundamentals on a budget, but there are some things about rifle marksmanship that cannot be simulated by a rimfire, such as recoil, and the necessity of building a solid position that can be maintained through recoil, so having both will be good for your development as a Rifleman.

And yes, Rifleman scores have been shot with Mosins, including by yours truly. I don't know what kind you have, but the full length barreled 91/30s and Finn M-39s are the best for this type of shooting, since they have long barrels, which gives them good sight radius even though they have tangent sights. The carbines are more difficult to shoot accurately. But use that factory sling as a hasty sling, get smooth with those stripper clips, and execute the fundamentals, and you'll be fine. Appleseed is not an equipment race. It is very much a run-what-you-brung type of event. It is also not a .22 shooting club. I know center fire ammo is expensive, but I appreciate the guys who show up with center fires to make it sound like a real firing line!

btw I'm an Appleseed shoot boss and the state coordinator for Oklahoma.

Hey, good to see you on here, 4bfox! Hopefully I'll see you soon on the trail.

Last edited by henschman; March 20, 2011 at 11:00 PM.
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Old March 20, 2011, 11:15 PM   #17
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Yeah, what Hensch said....I'm just being hard on myself by using the carbine....guess I like seeing the flame shoot out of the barrel a couple inches or something.

Good to see you, too Hensch....don't forget about our RBC the end of May...should be a good one!
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Old March 21, 2011, 11:00 AM   #18
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good info, thanks again everyone!
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