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Old March 23, 2011, 10:59 PM   #26
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Thanks guys, I'm glad you like the channel and thanks for watching.
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Old March 23, 2011, 11:29 PM   #27
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What is the firing pin assembly like? Does it have a spring or is it floating?
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Old March 23, 2011, 11:51 PM   #28
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FT "Thats because company's are cutting corners anywhere they can"

So all the modifications done on 1911 since, I'm guessing 1912 is because of cutting corners? Interesting
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Old March 24, 2011, 12:07 AM   #29
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Personally, I would be livid if I was even associated with a company that puts out products like that. There's just no excuse other than greed for it.
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Old March 24, 2011, 12:25 AM   #30
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First of all, its not the guns fault, and its not the ammos fault.

I have built 5 AR15 rifles in 7.62x39 and 2 in 5.45x39.

Wolf ammo is the culprit on this one. No, the ammo is not bad, it is made in the Tula aresenal in Russia and is of very good quality. However, the firing pin inertia needed to fire it is what is causing the issue. The fact that it is berdian primed, crimped and then coated with a sealer, makes it very hard to fire with a light spring set up in an AR type rifle. The Sig has the same issue.
When choosing springs for the AR, you must go with a set "red" springs for increased power and firing pin inertia. As imagined, you get a poor quality of trigger with the increase power.

Heres what I have done with good results:

First, I replace the firing pin with one that is made from titantium. The lighter firing pin travels faster and for the most part will shoot the ammo.

Second, I change the trigger system to a national match two stage trigger, I like Bushmasters set up.

Third, I have brased a steel pad on the front of the AR15 hammer, about 1/16th of inch thick. This increases the mass/weight of the hammer, and also increases the stroke of the hammer when it strikes the firing pin.

Now I don't know what options you have with SIG, but I am sure a comptent machinest/gunsmith can do the work.

I don't blame SIG on this one, the rifle works well. However, most people want to shoot low cost ammo, and you just can't have a good trigger system when firing Wolf ammo, unless you take the time to improve function of the weapon.

I think SIG was more inclined to have a nice trigger, why on earth would you buy a SIG and pay the money to have a crappy trigger, when you could have bought an AK to start with?

I have seen no issues with Silver Bear or Golden Bear. Not much higher, but a little softer primer, and better accruacy results.
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Old March 24, 2011, 01:46 AM   #31
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can't use steel cased ammo huh? They also decided to keep that fact hidden until people actually started buying them eh? HAHAHAH whoever is running sig is a freaken moron.

That's like putting out a hybrid car and not tell anyone that the car is only rated for 13mpg. Pathetic. Sig really is going down the ****ter.
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Old March 24, 2011, 07:38 AM   #32
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Strongsidearms,

If you watched the videos you would see that soft primer strikes aren't the only issue with Wolf. The gun fails to feed and extract with every mag, plus has soft primer strikes.

Yes, I do blame Sig and it is the rifles fault in my opinion. They purposely designed the rifle to fire AK ammo. They claim on thier website that it's designed for "special forces" that might want to use a 7.62x39. In my experience 7.62x39 in the military world uses mostly steel cased, hard primed ammo.

Welding a hammer, bending springs, trying to find titanium firing pins, etc. is not the job of the owner. If Sig were doing their job right, this rifle would act like the AK it was designed after and digest anything you put in it. The rifle also has some of the worst/cheap stocks I've seen outside of airsoft toys. The optic they give you vs. quality iron sights is another example of their willingness to compromise. At best it's a $20 Chinese airsoft quality RDS. It's proof Sig isn't worried about quality as much as they are maximizing profits at the expense of quality.

I wanted to love that rifle, it's a brilliant concept. Unfortunately I found the execution to poorly carried out. Thats why I didn't send it to Sig for repairs and simply returned it to my dealer. I knew Sig couldnt fix "the cheap".
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Old March 24, 2011, 07:43 AM   #33
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I should also note that if you use steel AK mags in the rifle, it will damage the alloy receiver where the front of the mag locks in. I only fired 90 rounds through a steel mag and I noticed erosion already taking place. A poster on AR15.com who fired 10000 rounds of brass cased Yugo surplus through his noted he had severe erosion from using some steel mags.

Sig should have discovered this in testing. But that's why they ship it with a cheap plastic mag vs. a steel one I suspect. I have mostly steel mags in my collection and this also factored in to my decision not to keep the rifle.
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Old March 24, 2011, 09:38 AM   #34
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Here's the image from the reviewer who fired about 1000 rounds through his 556R including the use of some steel mags.



As you can see, the damage to the rifle appears very quickly and after a few thousands rounds of using steel mags, or surplus steel reinforced polymer mags, the damage might cause enough erosion to cause feeding issues. If nothing else, the mag wobble that's already present will only worsen with use.
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Old March 24, 2011, 09:19 PM   #35
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If you watched the videos you would see that soft primer strikes aren't the only issue with Wolf. The gun fails to feed and extract with every mag, plus has soft primer strikes.
I only watched the first video. Did I miss the FTFs? I just saw light primer stikes.

Quote:
In my experience 7.62x39 in the military world uses mostly steel cased, hard primed ammo
Wolf is not the only steel cased ammo. Did you try any other ammo? Silver Bear and Golden Bear are both steel cased and they have never given me a problem. However, wolf has, its the bottom of barrel in a steel case. Would you buy a Ferrari and run 65 octane in it?

Quote:
Welding a hammer, bending springs, trying to find titanium firing pins, etc. is not the job of the owner. If Sig were doing their job right, this rifle would act like the AK it was designed after and digest anything you put in it. The rifle also has some of the worst/cheap stocks I've seen outside of airsoft toys. The optic they give you vs. quality iron sights is another example of their willingness to compromise. At best it's a $20 Chinese airsoft quality RDS. It's proof Sig isn't worried about quality as much as they are maximizing profits at the expense of quality.
This is all opinion based. Not every owner may want to run cheap ammo through their high price toy. Also, if you wanted to do that, it can be done. However, it obivious to me that Sig didn't want to design the rifle that way. It sounds like to me that you want your cake and eat it too. You can't have it both ways unless your going to spend the money. If you want an ak, buy an ak. If you want a accurate, modular, and modern rifle, buy the sig. I just wouldn't trash the rifle over it not performing like you wanted it to. If you think spending a 1k on a rifle is alot, or your going to get a superior product for that, your sorely mistakin.

I do have an issue with SIG not telling there customers up front NOT to shoot steel cased ammo through it. Also, the point you made about the mag well is good. That has to do with material issue and is not an opinion.

A good review is one that is unbiased, pointing out pros and cons.
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Old March 25, 2011, 01:56 PM   #36
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One hell of a Combat Weapon, huh ?
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Old March 25, 2011, 02:33 PM   #37
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If you want a accurate, modular, and modern rifle, buy the sig.
One that doesn't fire NATO rounds at that.
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Old March 26, 2011, 09:23 PM   #38
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One that doesn't fire NATO rounds at that

It only didn't fire ONE brand of ammo. Wolf is not a NATO round.
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Old March 26, 2011, 09:47 PM   #39
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Quote:
Silver Bear and Golden Bear are both steel cased and they have never given me a problem. However, wolf has, its the bottom of barrel in a steel case. Would you buy a Ferrari and run 65 octane in it?
Quote:
If you think spending a 1k on a rifle is alot, or your going to get a superior product for that, your sorely mistakin.
Not to nit-pick but these two statments contradict each other. First your "Ferrari" rifle statment imply's that the SIG is a "superior" product.

Then you say its not because it is "only a 1k rifle".

Sorry but a 1k rifle shouldn't be this crappy. Period. Wolf ammo isn't great, but it works fine in my $300 AK's. Sig should know that people are going to use cheap ammo for practice. And should have a harder/stronger firing pin in the rifle. Period.

And the feeding/extraction issues are still there. Not to meantion that steel AK mags (the magazine's the rifle is designed to use) chew up the rifle. This is inexcuseable.

Last edited by Father Time; March 26, 2011 at 10:01 PM.
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Old March 26, 2011, 10:29 PM   #40
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Quote:
I only watched the first video. Did I miss the FTFs? I just saw light primer stikes.
Yes, you missed the second video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrObcZb_CCI

Quote:
Wolf is not the only steel cased ammo. Did you try any other ammo? Silver Bear and Golden Bear are both steel cased and they have never given me a problem. However, wolf has, its the bottom of barrel in a steel case. Would you buy a Ferrari and run 65 octane in it?
You think Silver Bear is something special and you think Wolf is bottom of the barrel? What do you base this assessment on? You think Zinc plated steel is superior to polymer coated steel? Do you know where these various brands are even made, or how?

The Sig 556R is far from a Ferrari. If you think the 556R is well made and a cut above the competition, I would say you either have one of a kind Sig 556R or you have very little experience outside of that rifle.

Quote:
This is all opinion based. Not every owner may want to run cheap ammo through their high price toy. Also, if you wanted to do that, it can be done. However, it obivious to me that Sig didn't want to design the rifle that way. It sounds like to me that you want your cake and eat it too. You can't have it both ways unless your going to spend the money. If you want an ak, buy an ak. If you want a accurate, modular, and modern rifle, buy the sig. I just wouldn't trash the rifle over it not performing like you wanted it to. If you think spending a 1k on a rifle is alot, or your going to get a superior product for that, your sorely mistakin.
The Sig isn't high priced. It used to be, when they were introduced. But due to poor quality and spotty performance, the price has steadily dropped like a rock. If you think $1,100 is a lot of money for a rifle, again, I would say you have very little experience buying such rifles.

Wolf isn't "cheap" AK ammo, it's a standard. Every 7.62x39 rifle I own will shoot Wolf fine (as well as every 5.56 rifle I have). The only rifle I've owned that won't fire Wolf is the Sig 556R.

The Sig 556R isn't modular, you obviously have no idea what that even means. The Bushmaster ACR is "modular".

Quote:
A good review is one that is unbiased, pointing out pros and cons.
I would have pointed out the pros, if it had any.
  • Fit and finish are substandard
  • Unreliable
  • Poor quality stocks, they're toyish
  • Cheap optic
  • No open sights
  • Non-chrome lined barrel (not nitrited either)
  • Common AK surplus mags will damage the receiver
  • Sig tells people it isn't designed for steel cased ammo (the most common type of AK ammo on the planet)

It had promise, but unfortunately Sig fumbled the ball.
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Old March 26, 2011, 10:45 PM   #41
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A good review is one that is unbiased, pointing out pros and cons.
Not firing common practice ammunition, extremely sloppy fit and finish and poor quality parts are definitely something 99.9% of shootists would consider a con.
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Old March 26, 2011, 11:16 PM   #42
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I posted : "Thats because company's are cutting corners anywhere they can"
I was speaking in general terms about the decline in quality of firearms from several major company's.


comn-cents replyed:
Quote:
So all the modifications done on 1911 since, I'm guessing 1912 is because of cutting corners? Interesting

Way to take what I said out of context.
First of all I wasn't talking about 1911's. And 2nd, modifications to designs are not "cutting corners" they are changes to design. There is a difference.

"Cutting corners" means makeing the product as cheaply as possible. From what I have seen with this rifle, it looks like SIG is doing exactly that.
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Old March 26, 2011, 11:18 PM   #43
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Inexcusable. Wouldn't Sig realize that if someone's buying a gun that's basically an updated AK, it should at least have the performance of an AK? (same ammo, same magazines, same reliability.) It's like promising chocolate cookies with no chocolate.
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Old March 26, 2011, 11:37 PM   #44
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It's like promising chocolate cookies with no chocolate.
Sugar cookies?
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Old March 27, 2011, 08:23 AM   #45
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FT.
What other groups didn't you want grouped into you statement? Sorry I can't read your mind Maybe you didn't want to group HK in there or revolvers made in 1977, who knows, seems you are unsure.

I said that 1911 were modified (as in to make them work because companies were cutting corners).

So what company doesn't try to cut corners to save money? The ones out of business? That's what I'm guessing. You are jumping all other the place thinking that you know anything about Sig or another company out there because of one video. :barf:
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Old March 27, 2011, 09:51 AM   #46
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I made one statment about how many companies in the firearms industry are lowering the quality of their products. No where did I specificaly mention design changes or 1911. You assumed that was what I was talking about. (Besides a "design change" is probably exactly what this rifle needs. There is no reason for the rifle to get chewed up by the standard steel AK mags it was "designed" to use)

There is also a difference between "design changes" and "cutting corners".
A "design change" is actually changing the design of the firearm. It means it functions diffrently or has diffrent parts. This can be done to simplify production or make the use/maintenece easier. But a company that cares about their product won't make these changes if the final product will be negativly affected.
"Cutting corners" is simply makeing the product as cheap as possible without regard for the final product. The company dosen't care if what they are making is junk. That is the difference.

I was not "jumping all over the place" in my post. You where making assumptions out of thin air. I NEVER mentioned 1911's or HK's or revolvers. So stop acting like I was. My statments where clear enough to everyone else on this thread.

You also DID NOT say that customers where modifying 1911's to "make them work because companys where cutting corners"

What you said was:
Quote:
So all the modifications done on 1911 since, I'm guessing 1912 is because of cutting corners? Interesting
Now if you want to talk about 1911's go start a thread. There is no need to derail this one any farther than it has been. (BTW my 1911 has preformed flawlessly from the factory. At least Springfield still makes quality firearms)

Last edited by Father Time; March 27, 2011 at 11:20 AM.
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Old March 27, 2011, 10:23 PM   #47
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Quote:
You think Silver Bear is something special and you think Wolf is bottom of the barrel? What do you base this assessment on? You think Zinc plated steel is superior to polymer coated steel? Do you know where these various brands are even made, or how?
Both Silver Bear and Golden Bear are better. Cost more, more accurate, and stricter quality control.
Yes, I know wear they are made.

Quote:
The Sig 556R is far from a Ferrari. If you think the 556R is well made and a cut above the competition, I would say you either have one of a kind Sig 556R or you have very little experience outside of that rifle.
I never said the Sig was a Ferrari, I was using an analogy, to get my point across. However, in general circumstances, SIG would be considered top tier in many level of military style weapons.

Theres no way to prove to you on TFL, that I have more experince then you. This is not a tit for tat issue. No, I don't spend my money to buy a weapon and put the firing of said weapon on YOUTUBE. However, I do from time to time recieve free T&E weapons from different manufactuers, and I have been paid to be on T.V. with said weapons.

Quote:
The Sig 556R isn't modular
SIG is a modular design rifle. Lets start with the defintion of of Modular.

constructed with standardized units or dimensions allowing flexibility and variety in use

Do to the fact the 556R can exchange forends, sighting systems, barrel length, mags, and even exchange parts with it 5.56mm brother, you can kind of see the answer.

My quote:

Quote:
If you think spending a 1k on a rifle is alot, or your going to get a superior product for that, your sorely mistakin.
Your quote:
Quote:
If you think $1,100 is a lot of money for a rifle, again, I would say you have very little experience buying such rifles.
Quote:
Not to nit-pick but these two statments contradict each other. First your "Ferrari" rifle statment imply's that the SIG is a "superior" product.
You took that statement out of context.
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Old March 27, 2011, 10:36 PM   #48
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StrongSideArmsInc:

You are quoting both me and Sturmgewehr. So I will only respond to the quotes that where mine.

Your post was likening a SIG 556R to a Ferrari. To put cheap gasoline in a race car would indeed be foolish. However your post implies that the Sig is somehow a gun that needs to be carefully maintained like a finely tuned product.

But if a SIG 556R isn't a top end product (which no one here is trying to claim that it is) then the customer should expect to be able to run inexpensive practice ammo in it.

Sorry but I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a $1000 rifle to run wolf ammo when a $300 century ak can run it without problems.

Last edited by Father Time; March 27, 2011 at 10:42 PM.
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Old March 27, 2011, 10:42 PM   #49
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CRAP AMMO! Try running them through the Sig a second time. Also, just because a magazine works in one gun doesn't mean it will in another one. Buy some good Bulgarian waffle magazines. You have a $1500 rifle and $10 gunshow special magazines loaded with Berdan primed steel cased ammo. You don't put 87octane in a Porsche and take it to Jiffy Lube for an oil change. Garbage In Garbage Out.

I own a Sig556 Classic and will tell you from PERSONAL experience not just internet hearsay, it is a great rifle. The only thing that is even close in terms of quality is the SCAR.

I don't doubt that the rifle you tested had problems. However, there were some serious issues with the testing of it. This is why I never buy a gun, car or just about anything during it's first production run. They NEVER have all the bugs worked out no matter who makes it. This was the case with the regular 556 and apparently the 556R. (Of course, even the fanboys know know how wonderful early ARs worked. Heck.... they have a "forward assist" on them now for crying out loud. Just sayin.')
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Old March 27, 2011, 10:52 PM   #50
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Do to the fact the 556R can exchange forends, sighting systems, barrel length, mags, and even exchange parts with it 5.56mm brother, you can kind of see the answer.
The 556R is no more modular than an AK, M1 Carbine, or SKS rifle. People are putting aftermarket stocks on Mosin Nagant rifles, and even scopes... I guess they're modular too. Using your rather lose definition, just about every rifle made is "modular".

Again, a modular rifle system would be something like a Stoner 63A or in more modern terms a Bushmaster ACR or Rob Arms XCR.

The barrel isn't quick change on the Sig 556R by the way, I have no idea where you get that the Sig has a modular barrel system. If you knew what you were talking about, you would know that the Sig 556(R) barrels are not even indexed. That means you can't easily pull a barrel from one rifle and put it on another rifle, you will have to set the head space - thus it's not modular.

Being on television or having a YouTube channel doesn't make one an expert. But saying things like "the Sig is a modular rifle because you can change the magazine and sights" is a clear indication you're not the expert on the subject you think you are.

I see nothing to be gained from arguing this with you. If you want to think the Sig 556R is a quality rifle and it's acceptable that it can't reliably fire the most common ammo on the market or even use surplus steel AK magazines without damaging itself, far be it from me to try and sway your opinion. I posted the flaws with the system as I see them backed up with video and picture evidence. What you, or anyone else, choose to do with that information is your choice.

Take care.
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