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Old March 17, 2011, 10:12 AM   #1
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Thinking of buying a 7.62 Spainish Mauser

I have been thinking about buying one of the Spainish Mausers Samco Global Arms is advertizing.
But I dont reload as of yet.
Would it be safe to fire Comercial Remington Coreloct 150 grain cartridges in it?
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Old March 17, 2011, 03:31 PM   #2
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I don't memorize the ads in the gunzines. Which Spanish Mauser are they selling?

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Old March 17, 2011, 03:37 PM   #3
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MR Keenan

The featured Mauser is an M1916 Spanish Mauser advertized as .308.
The Add says Manufactured at the Famouis Ovedo Factory in Spain for the Spanish Army, Converted to use ever plentiful 7.62 Nato (.308 WIN) round. Short Rifle.
Polished turned down bolt, 5 round magazine, fixed side support and sling swivel.

Good to Very Good Condition.....$169.95
Special Condition.....................$179.95
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Old March 17, 2011, 03:54 PM   #4
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Please don't take this as gospel, because I'm working off my (frequently faulty) memory.... but I thought I'd heard somewhere that the Spanish mausers (usually 7mm) were small-ring mausers, and were questionable for use with the 7.62X51 (.308) because of its higher chamber pressures.
If that is true, I'd be more than a little skeptical of buying one in .308...

just a thought...
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Old March 17, 2011, 03:58 PM   #5
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It is a Small Ring Mauser.
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Old March 17, 2011, 04:44 PM   #6
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and it might be fine for use with the .308... but I'd check with an expert on Mausers to get an opinion first.
As an aside, most of the spanish mausers that I've seen seem to be very nicely made. I think the biggest issue with them was that most of them were poorly cleaned, and the bores suffered from the corrosive ammo. These, obviously, would not have that problem.
I'd like to have an original one and chamber it for the .257 Roberts, or .35 Remington...something else like that. I bet it would make a nice .220 Swift, too. Heck, if the bore was good, I'd be tempted to leave it in 7X57... one of the best deer cartridges made.
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Old March 17, 2011, 04:58 PM   #7
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Generally, 7.62X51mm NATO is loaded to slightly lower pressure than 308 Win commercial ammo (56,000 psi vs 62,000 psi SAMMI max). I would avoid using 308 Win ammo in a M1916, use only 7.62X51mm ammo. That said, I fired literally thousands of military FMJ through mine for years, but that was me.
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Old March 17, 2011, 09:00 PM   #8
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If you look on the rifle the caliber says 7.62. It does NOT say 7.62 Nato. These rifle were made to shoot the 7.62 CETME round which was a slightly downloaded 7.62 Nato round. It was downloaded for two reasons. Firstly to make it safe to shoot in the 1916 Mauser. The second reason was to make full auto fire possible in the CETME. The CETME had real control problems with the Nato round on full auto during testing. Can you shoot nato and commercial 308 Win in this rifle, yes and no. You can't do it 100% safely and it is going to be hard on the rifle, very hard. I know of people that have run hundreds if not thousands of 308 win through their Spanish Mausers without a problem, but I also know of some that have had very bad experiences with escaping gasses. Wear you shooting glasses for sure.
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Old March 17, 2011, 10:05 PM   #9
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I own one spanish mauser Oviedo guardia civil, arsenal converted to 308 nato, i shoot 308 winchester with it and several hundred of my hand load, I read a lot about this action and never found any record that this action blew up using a .308 winchester load, on the contrary records are available of a USA Import company that tested this actions to destruction, and it blow up just above 90000 lb. do not take my word on it, do your own search on line and you will find it.
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Old March 17, 2011, 11:38 PM   #10
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According to the newspaper article link somewhere, a guy at a range in PA was killed while shooting one of the original 7mm Spanish Mausers which had been converted to '.308'. I read the article.
This Might have been manufactured before 1900.

The article did not state whether his ammo was .comm. .308, NATO 7.62 or reloads. Have you contacted people on Surplusrifle or Gunboards' Mauser forums?

A seller last year at a Southaven MS show either was ignorant of the converted (classic 7mm to NATO 7.62) design limit issues, or did not care.
When I asked this guy about it, he seemed not to know, but a Second seller from Fayette County who was behind him looked at me and slowly shook his head. I went over and thanked the other, more responsible seller.

My Mauser buddies seem to believe that the pre-1900 actions have the weakest steel chambers etc if I understand correctly.

As to whether rifles built years after 1910 (or so) are strong enough for .308 or NATO 7.62, I'm not sure.
On a side note, numerous sources claim that the (later?) Spanish M43 Mauser is not nearly as strong an action as in the M44 (8mm Mauser).

Some of these rifles were converted to the post-WW2 Spanish FR8 (7.62x51) carbine, and with the stronger M44 chambers designed for 8mm Mauser, using either .308 or 7.62x51 NATO should be fine in the FR8, but maybe not in the (M43) FR7.

Last edited by Ignition Override; March 17, 2011 at 11:57 PM.
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Old March 18, 2011, 01:49 AM   #11
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M1893 rifles, M1916, M1933 short rifles- Standard service rifle from 1893 to 1942, after which they were used by police units well into the 1950s. Built on M93 Mauser pattern actions made at Oviedo. M1916 and later actions are plenty strong. Originally chambered for 7X57mm.

M1895 carbines- Made at Oviedo, generally exported, but some special police rifles issued to Spanish police horse units.

Spanish M43 short rifle- Standard service rifle from 1943 until 1958-ish. M98 Mauser action made at La Coruna. Just as strong as a K98k, because it is a M98. Originally chambered in 8X57mm, which was adopted as the Spanish army service round in 1943.

There is no M44 rifle AFAIK.

FR7 rifles- Converted from M1933 short rifles/carbines and M1916 short rifles in the 1950s.

FR8 rifles- Converted from M43 short rifles in the 1950s.

http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/mauser1.html
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Old March 18, 2011, 07:58 PM   #12
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The 7x57 cartridge is in the 40-45k psi range, while the 7.62 NATO runs about 10k psi higher, and .308 commercial can run even higher.

Those old (1893/1916) Spanish rifles won't "blow up"*, but the steel tends to be soft and eventually they will develop excess headspace with cartrdiges in the .308 pressure ranges.

The Spanish Model 1943 is a Mauser 98 action, and should be OK with pressures in the 50-55k psi range, but they also are on the soft side and might not hold up as well as other Mauser 98 actions.

*Without knowing any more than the story above, I can't say what might have caused the blowup. I honestly doubt it was factory ammunition, but there is not enough information to even make a guess as to the cause.

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Old March 18, 2011, 09:36 PM   #13
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I think I will go ahead and buy one, But also buy some dies, and load some mild cartridges.
Maby even some cast loads.
I like the looks of the action, on these small ring mausers, kind of reminds me of the sweedish rifles.
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Old March 19, 2011, 10:43 AM   #14
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1916 Spanish Mauser G&A article
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Old March 19, 2011, 10:53 AM   #15
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GREAT find on that article.
That should settle the issue once and for all.

I've learned my one thing for the day, now.
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Old March 20, 2011, 05:51 PM   #16
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Thanks for the Article, Now I feel alot better, and are ready to purchase one.
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Old March 20, 2011, 06:13 PM   #17
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Most anything you want to know about these amazing little rifles can be found here:
Fred Masterson's Spanish Mauser research
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Old April 2, 2011, 11:13 AM   #18
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Well I sent out my order, now its time to wait.
I think this will be a nice addition to my firearms collection.
Thanks for all the help everyone.
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Old April 2, 2011, 01:29 PM   #19
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My experience with Samco is that they generally have a really nice product, but they will be the slowest supplier you'll ever have the frustration of dealing with. Be patient and you'll be pleased with the rifle you get.

I've had a 1916 Spanish Mauser in the original 7 X 57 cal. since I was a kid and it's been a great rifle. I think I paid about $17 for it out of the Wards catalog and it looked like it had never been used. I never bought the bull about the actions being weak. I've shot countless numbers of rounds through mine and it's tight as the day I got it.

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Old April 3, 2011, 07:34 AM   #20
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Thanks SnakeDriver

Your Mauser is awesome, love the acesseries as well.
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Old April 3, 2011, 11:50 AM   #21
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Here's a picture of my Samco 1916 so you'll have an idea of what to expect. It's not as pretty as Snakedriver's, but still pretty good. I just cleaned the stock with some four 0 steel wool and BLO. Their ad doesn't mention it , but mine came with a muzzle cap and sling. Oh, and don't try to unscrew the cleaning rod.
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Old April 3, 2011, 05:59 PM   #22
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Larry

I sure hope my Rifle looks as nice as yours when it gets here.
Yours looks new.
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Old April 3, 2011, 08:34 PM   #23
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LarryNTX: "Oh, and don't try to unscrew the cleaning rod."

The cleaning rod has a notch in it that snaps into the clip on the back side of the front sling ring retainer. Press in on the button on the bottom of the ring to release the cleanning rod and pull out on it to remove it. It should slide right out when you release it.



Cleaning rod notch:

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Old April 4, 2011, 09:52 AM   #24
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Quote:
GREAT find on that article. That should settle the issue once and for all.
I am not a big fan of these very old rifles and I don't have a big inventory of them to sell.

Garry James was paid to write that infomercial and he was paid by the importer. People with a financial incentive are not going to be objective. Or have you never had a bad experience after bought something you saw in an advert?

Why would SAMCO spend so much time “proving” that these rifles are safe? Maybe it is because they have a deserved reputation for being defective.

SAMCO sent a number of M1916's to HP White. We don't know if the receivers tested were late model or early model. We don't know if the rifles were rebuilt from 1893's or were new M1916's.

Lot sampling makes the assumption that the samples tested are representative of the lot.

But is this case, is it true? Was Spanish quality control so good that decades of production, decades of rebuilds, that we can believe a small test sample represents the entire production?

The load test does not provide a comparison against anything. When Ruger tested its M77 bolt, made from modern 4140 steel, against M98 and 03 bolts, the Ruger bolt was at least ½ to 1/3 stronger. You can find the information in the 1969? Gun Digest. The 308 round is a 62,000 psia round, if these HP White tests are to believed, you don’t have a 2:1 safety margin. You have a 1.58 safety factory. Not so great in my opinion.

The purpose of the sited infomercial was to give just enough information so that the reader would buy a SAMCO M1916.

But lets say the metal of these Spanish Mausers is just fine. These old M93 actions have their own issues independent of metallurgy or quality control. They don’t handle gas very well. The M98 Mauser is one of the best in this regards, in that action Paul Mauser really incorporated a number of design features to protect the shooter from gas release. The M93 does not have the inner collar, the third safety lug, the bolt flange that deflects gas from the face, the firing pin block, big gas vents. etc. I have had over pressure 8mm surplus ammo pierce primers, seen the firing pin blow back, and yet never received any gas in my face or hand.

Many modern actions, the Ruger is an example, have good breeching features, compare this:

This Swedish Mauser is the exact same action as a Spanish Mauser. Don’t know what happened here but there is a cracked receiver ring and blood on the ground. Obviously an over pressure event of some sort, and the shooter was not protected by this old action.


Take a look at the blown case head of in this Ruger M77. The shooter walked away.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...=ruger+hawkeye

The Spanish Mausers rebarreled to 308 Winchester are particularly well known for having problems. The 308 is a high intensity round and many of these rifles have developed headspace issues as the bolt peened into the soft receiver.

I does not take much web searching to find examples of where Spanish Mausers developed excessive headspace due to soft receiver metal.


Excessive Headspace in M1916 Mauser

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost....9&postcount=10

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceans
Thats funny Maj. Dad, I knew a correctional officer in the late '80s, who had one of them in what was supposed to be .308. This guy loved that rifle like it was a 1930s model 70. He talked about it constantly, shot it every time he went to the range and even bought an expensive case to haul it around in. I was always leery of a 1893 action chambered in .308. I was told that the Guardia Mauser was chambered for a very similar Spanish round, and not the NATO 7.62x51, and that this Spanish round was loaded to lower pressures. I do not know if this is true, maybe someone on the board does? I will say, that the rifle is handy, and nice looking.
Oceans - It is true, as I found out today, sadly.

I've had my 1916 Spanish Guardia Mauser from Samco for about 20 years now. Took it deer hunting every year until last year, when I heard about the same thing you did. I shot .308 rounds out of it.

Finally got the headspace checked by a gunsmith, and - well, the bolt locked EASILY on "no-go". And we're talking like butter. I snapped the firing pin and will have it hanging on the wall of my office soon.
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Old April 4, 2011, 06:23 PM   #25
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HMM

Well while Im waiting on the Rifle to get here, I will order a set of .308 Headspace Go and and No Go Gages from Brownels.
They have them in stock for $50 so I can check it myself.
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