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Old March 7, 2011, 01:28 AM   #51
StrongSideArmsInc
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Never said that either - amazing how moronic folks can get - it was the use of 10 rounds at a time that is unsafe, and the other posters need to open carry a loaded pistol on the trap line because he feels those "old men" might attack him
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amazing how moronic folks can get

Moronic, I got kicked off the forums for calling you a clown, because you told some guy it was okay to shot a rifled slug with full choke. This is not fair, I am reporting you to TFL.



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rottieman - here's the deal - for safety reasons -yes at station 1 you will fire 4 shots, possibly 5, total (including option). however, you never need to load more than 2 - whether a mag or tube gun, this is important for several reasons
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no need for any of that when safety is paramount
You keep recanting a safety issue this, safety issue that. The safety is your trigger finger, it doesn't matter how many rounds you have or don't have. Weapon is pointed in a safe direction, with your finger off the trigger. Nothing bad is going to happen. I carry a loaded gun around everyday, during the course of duty I have even pointed it at people, under stress. You might have a hard time believing this, but I just keep my finger off the trigger. Bottom line, his range master said it was ok, and you weren't there to pitch a fit. Leave the common man alone, no everybody can afford Perazzis, Krigofs.

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you can go find some pasture
You are only showing what the OP stated in the first post. The OP needs to contact me, so I can Dura Coat his Saiga Pink, then go to trap and skeet range and when these people start giving your a hard time, tell them you are shooting for Breast Cancer Awarness, and they should be more sympathtic to the cause. If they don't leave you alone, you can have a bunch of women survivers pickett their club. Give me a call, I will Dura Coat it for free, and be there when you beat the pants of them. I will heckle them, and make fun them for getting beat by a guy with a pink assault shotgun.

It should matter what is being shot, of who the shooter is. I have Lutic Space gun, but sometimes I like to go out to trap/skeet club with my 9 shot Berreta 1201FP, all camoed up. The praise should be to the shooter, espically if he using a gun like a Saiga, because it is much more difficult to use in those kind of events.
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Old March 7, 2011, 07:24 AM   #52
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I suspect that you were displaying an attitude not only by toting the S12, but the glock. Although a newbie, I have been out this year over a half dozen times to shotgun ranges and have yet to see anyone carrying a pistol; including range officers.
Klawman rides in to the rescue on a horsey of wild assumptions.

1)The OP and myself are not the same.
2)Did you ever suspect not only the fact that you haven't seen it but your irrationally negative attitude towards it is because you are in California? Open carry isn't legal there. It would be pretty ambiguous for a lot of folks there how that applies to the range and immediately adjacent to it. Surprised I had to point that one out for you.

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People like you make me want to vote for gun control though
Wow, I didn't even see this one yesterday. People who openly carry on ranges, co signed on by range management (until the irrational complaints of people like you), with a pistol who's safety level is beyond reproach and fully holstered in what is practically a gun safe on your hip?

Yes, that's just crazy enough to make perfect sense. As pointed out by others in this thread, you're trolling and continue demonstrating perfectly that I've never been around more anti-gun gun owners than at that trap shoot (I am not saying all trap shooters are, but that seemed to be the shot group they were shooting collectively without a doubt).

Last edited by 10mmAuto; March 7, 2011 at 10:39 AM.
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Old March 7, 2011, 11:18 AM   #53
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See, this is why I LOVE it! All these dudes get so flipped out over it and as long as you are safe and responsible who cares "what an appropriate shotgun" for the GAME is. Its a game... but when a tactical shotty shows up at a "super duper prestigious field with two plywood shacks" its like watching parents fight at their kids soccer game.
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Old March 7, 2011, 11:27 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by StrongSideArmsInc
You keep recanting a safety issue this, safety issue that. The safety is your trigger finger, it doesn't matter how many rounds you have or don't have. Weapon is pointed in a safe direction, with your finger off the trigger. Nothing bad is going to happen. I carry a loaded gun around everyday, during the course of duty I have even pointed it at people, under stress. You might have a hard time believing this, but I just keep my finger off the trigger.
Finger out of the guard may work for you on a daily basis. I know other pistol packers who add "cocked and locked" to their carry gun safety list. But, these are not the rules of a typical shotgun club. You may ask why are the rules different, so I'll attempt to explain.

The safety procedures for a carry gun are based on making the gun as safe as possible while maintaining it ready for unanticipated instantaneous service by a well trained individual. The shotgun club safety rules are intended to make the gun as safe as possible (unloaded with the action open for others to see) at the times the average individual is not actually on the firing station. Only when preparing to fire is the gun is loaded, and then with only one shell per target per presentation.

With everyone following the rules, it's not the routine occurrences that pose the greater safety problems at the target range. It's the unexpected distractions that tend to make us forget the safety rules. If you get hit in the side of the head by a significantly sized target piece from an adjacent field your first thought isn't going to be, "Is my gun loaded, or not?"

Why are newbies considered to be unfamiliar with the safety rules, because many of us remember being there. When first introduced to Skeet I shot a borrowed O/U. My next time out was with my new pump gun. As we squadded-up for station 2, I reckoned it would speed things up if I preloaded my gun while waiting my turn. As I started to stuffing shells into the mag, one of the old boys motioned me aside and explained the loading procedure. After completing the round, I actually took the time to read the big sign board with all those rules spelled out in bright red lettering. I was embarrassed to learn that I'd been an unformed newby. To this day, when at a new range (rifle, pistol or shotgun) I read the local rules before taking my guns out of the truck. When in Rome...
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Originally Posted by StrongSideArmsInc
Leave the common man alone, no everybody can afford Perazzis, Krigofs.
Let's not be getting anti-brand name snobby, I think most will agree, there's quite a few target appropriate guns priced between the Saiga and P/K-guns. However, unlike the Saiga, if someone is toting a P/K-gun it's assumed he's been shooting long enough to know the safety rules. Typically, they aren't the owners first target gun. I'd been target shooting more than 20-years before I got my first P-gun. On the other hand, I knew a 12-year old kid who had a Perazzi; but, she knew the rules, too (and won Olympic Gold with a P-gun 5-years later).
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Old March 7, 2011, 11:28 AM   #55
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Atleast when parents fight at the kids soccer game it's amusing, but fighting over this is stupid.
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Old March 7, 2011, 11:53 AM   #56
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You are only showing what the OP stated in the first post. The OP needs to contact me, so I can Dura Coat his Saiga Pink, then go to trap and skeet range and when these people start giving your a hard time, tell them you are shooting for Breast Cancer Awarness, and they should be more sympathtic to the cause. If they don't leave you alone, you can have a bunch of women survivers pickett their club. Give me a call, I will Dura Coat it for free, and be there when you beat the pants of them. I will heckle them, and make fun them for getting beat by a guy with a pink assault shotgun

Color of the gun is no issue at all - we have had a few girls show up with their pink shotguns - they shot well, abided by all of the safety rules and had a great time. Guys with camo guns and HD guns show up as well - as long as you follow the safety rules, no one cares - what's so hard for you to follow in that regard?
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Old March 7, 2011, 12:17 PM   #57
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Rottieman we should start a s12 clayshooting team
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Old March 7, 2011, 12:43 PM   #58
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Klawman rides in to the rescue on a horsey of wild assumptions.

1)The OP and myself are not the same.
2)Did you ever suspect not only the fact that you haven't seen it but your irrationally negative attitude towards it is because you are in California? Open carry isn't legal there. It would be pretty ambiguous for a lot of folks there how that applies to the range and immediately adjacent to it. Surprised I had to point that one out for you.
Where do you get off (your horsey) assuming my attitude towards weapons carrying is the same as the Californina Legislature's? My assumption that you were the OP was a mistake, but not that wild an assumption given how uyou hijacked his thread.

Forgetting about you stalking horse argument, regardless of what some range officer said to allow it until complaints were made, what were the rules of the field and why did you feel a need to be exempted from them if you did?
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Old March 7, 2011, 12:55 PM   #59
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Rottieman we should start a s12 clayshooting team
I am all for it Saiga 12 skeet speed shoot 10 rounds max
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Old March 7, 2011, 01:12 PM   #60
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It seems to me that the conflict here is about the "published and established rules of Skeet - and the safety rules that apply and are published" vs the mentality of a " Fun Shoot" ...that may or may not have anything to do with Skeet.

The published rules of Skeet are very plain - on no station, can you ever load more than 2 shells ( not in the mag or anywhere else). In some cases, you can only load one shell ( station 8 / or whenever you have one single target remaining - like an option ). The rules exist for everyones comfort and safety...and to ignore them / by the range or the shooters concerns me a lot.

In a fun shoot ...3 shell shoots, all kinds of made-up hybrid games ...the club management can set whatever parameters they feel is appropriate / whatever safety standards they think apply ....but its not Skeet.

At my club, on my squad, we make room for new shooters all the time - regardless of the types or styles of guns they shoot / tactical, etc on a Skeet squad. We do however insist the basic published safety rules are followed - no more than 2 shells, actions open, etc .. If a guy with a tactical shotgun can run 100 targets straight - I'll congratulate him or her - just like I would someone shooting a $ 25,000 Over Under... it makes no difference.

At the same time - I have no place on my squad for rudeness...talking when someone else is shooting, bad attitudes, etc . / and while guys may not understand the rules ...most guys, with a comment here or there, are more than happy to show some respect to other members of the sqaud.
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This argument on carrying a handgun ...is interesting. All of the guys I shoot with in Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays are pro-gun ...but none of us feel the need to wear a concealed weapon. Frankly it would make me nervous - if I saw it happen on a clays range ...because my impression is the person doing it "is just showing off". Its that "showing off" mentality ...that worries me the most ....as in --- what are they doing, is my safety at risk, are they stable, do I need to go put a holster on with my 1911 to make sure I'm safe...and none of that strikes me as a good idea.

I shoot tactical handguns at least twice a week ... and I think there is a time and place for that ....vs the clay target ranges. Not wanting a bunch of handguns in holsters ...doesn't make me anti-gun... But in general, I think all putting a handgun on at a clays range is doing is either "showing off" or its ratcheting up the anxiety level of everyone else around them ...and not a good idea in my view. I'd suggest the person doing it ....really think it thru / and analyze what they're trying to accomplish.
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Old March 7, 2011, 01:22 PM   #61
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+1 Jim - well said
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Old March 7, 2011, 02:04 PM   #62
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Where do you get off (your horsey) assuming my attitude towards weapons carrying is the same as the Californina Legislature's? My assumption that you were the OP was a mistake, but not that wild an assumption given how uyou hijacked his thread.
Not the only mistake you made, you might want to go back to the first page because I wasn't the only person to talk about the attitude at trap ranges.

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Forgetting about you stalking horse argument, regardless of what some range officer said to allow it until complaints were made, what were the rules of the field and why did you feel a need to be exempted from them if you did?
It wasn't against the rules.

I'll leave it be, I find it amusing how fervently anti-carry oneonceload and JimB are. Obviously, there are different attitudes about carry in this nation amongst gun owners which is amusing. At the rifle range, nobody would have looked twice. Hell, even at Impact Guns nobody bats an eye. Clearly, we are all unstable up here in the mountain west.
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Old March 7, 2011, 02:08 PM   #63
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I think i should clarify some thing. When I was shooting Sunday it was a practice shoot wasn't a game for points. 1 round we shot doubles so first 2 station I could load up 4 rounds in mag. 1 from high house 1 from low house then 1 from each house at the same time. And not once did i leave that station until bolt was open and mag was removed. And the 10 round mag was shot with permission from range master. The rules at your range may differ from mine. I know in the State of New Hampshire we are allowed to carry a loaded gun in the open. But this is my ? Is it posted at your range so that every one can see it that side arms are not allowed when skeet shooting. Do I carry when shooting skeet/trap no i don't but its not going to bother me if the guy next to me is, as long has he keeps it in the holster i have no problem. But for people flipping out about what went on Sunday with with me. You was not there so how can you say what we was not being safe, you assumed that we are a bunch of unsafe shooters cause of the type of gun I brought and had 10 round mag. Some people in here may think there the safest person in the world when it comes to guns control, There the worst cause they worry about what other people are doing and not what there doing. I put this post up to let people now how fun it was to skeet shoot with a Saiga 12 and what happens my post got bashed. I have seen people do unsafe stuff with guns and have told them nicely that I don't think that it's safe to do that, If they continue I just leave. But it all boils down to this I did nothing wrong the 10 round mag was approved by the range master at the end of the day when every body was done shooting. All the safety rules were followed. Not once was there anybody in danger or I would of stopped it.
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Old March 7, 2011, 02:21 PM   #64
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anti-carry oneonceload and JimB are.
Yet another wrong assumption - never said anything about anti-carry. it was about carrying your sidearm on a trap/skeet field - the only loaded firearm is the one held by someone about to shoot - maybe you missed that point that was made. It is obvious you believe you can just do whatever you want wherever you are - not the case. Those clubs have rules for a reason, actually several - safety and related to that, insurance and lawsuits.

You want to carry at a rifle range? Go ahead, I have as well, ESPECIALLY at an open public piece of property with no RO and a bunch of young video-game commandos running around acting irresponsibly.

That, however, is not a shotgun club. If you do not like their rules, go elsewhere
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Old March 7, 2011, 02:25 PM   #65
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1 round we shot doubles so first 2 station I could load up 4 rounds in mag. 1 from high house 1 from low house then 1 from each house at the same time
You should not have had it loaded with 4 for stations 1, 2, 6, or 7. You would load the next two after you shot the first pair of singles. Where it can wreak havoc is when it comes to your option on your first miss. I have watched people start to walk off the station with one round left because of that - oops happen to everyone all the time, which is why everyone is always watching the shooter - to make sure no oops occur. Glad everything came out safely in the end and you had a good time.

Safety first, fun second - all is well
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Old March 7, 2011, 02:38 PM   #66
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Loading more than 2 shells ....at any time ....on station 1 in "Skeet" is a clear violation of the published safety rules of Skeet !

In Skeet - we all shoot 4 targets at station 1. A single from each house / then a true pair.....but you cannot load 4 shells ...and be within the rules/you can only load 2 shells at one time !! By loading 4 shells ...you committed a clear safety violation !
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Openly carrying a handgun in a holster ...in my opinion ....is clearly just showing off ....although why anyone would be that proud of a 10mm Glock is beyond me ...?? If you were carrying for any perceived "defensive situation" ...or just because you carry concealed all the time / then you would have made sure it was concealed .... not showing it off. I'd be curious to know if you have a concealed weapons permit ....
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As a Vietnam era vet ...I resent your implication .../although you're entitled to your opinion ....but I would have asked the Range Safety Officer to ask you to leave the range if you insisted on open carry - for my, and my fellow shooters, safety - because your intentions are certainly questionable.
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Old March 7, 2011, 02:48 PM   #67
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If someone was carrying openly at a skeet range, I would assume it was for showing off as well. I have no problem with it tho, but its better off being concealed.

Part of the problem here is sterotyping and the fact that there are casual and competitive shooters colliding. No (real/serious) competitive shooter is going to show up to a skeet range with a Saiga 12. Just ain't gonna happen. So automatically when you do show up with one you get labeled as a casual noob shooter, possibly unsafe, don't know what you are doing, etc etc. Its a stereotype. Same stereotype could be (wrongfully) placed on someone shooting a pricey O/U that they are pro shooters, on top of safety, highly experienced. Anybody with a couple grand burning a hole in their swiss bank account can buy a pricey O/U, show up to a skeet range, and sweep the HECK out of a squad or two. Possibly injure OR KILL someone.
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Old March 7, 2011, 02:52 PM   #68
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Its also not that big a deal - to just load 2 shells at a time ....and abide by the published safety rules of Skeet ....and then everyone is happy !
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Old March 7, 2011, 02:54 PM   #69
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This is what I am trying to tell you, your rules may be different then mine. Like the other guy said there are Hybrid games out there. But we still call it skeet. Your being so anal on a skeet shoot you keep going back to your rules, your rules do not apply to my game of skeet. This is why people get ******. you either shoot skeet your way or you don't do it at all. your not willing to open your mind up to try something different. And just so you know the person that shot my gun with a 10 round mag flies all over the USA to go to these big skeet shoots and has a $10,000 skeet gun. He told me if your shooting clays from left to right or right to left its still called skeet and it doesn't matter how you shoot the game. From reading what you have posted you sound like the type of guy if the person next to you pass gas you would want to retake the shot cause the sound and smell made you miss it.
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Old March 7, 2011, 02:58 PM   #70
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That, however, is not a shotgun club. If you do not like their rules, go elsewhere
It wasn't their rules. You need to read more.
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Old March 7, 2011, 03:01 PM   #71
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A holstered gun at a gun range? Scandalous.
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Old March 7, 2011, 03:01 PM   #72
rottieman33
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Every body keeps going back to the OFFICAL SKEET RULES. I played a Hybrid game of skeet. Is that so hard to understand.
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Old March 7, 2011, 03:17 PM   #73
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You're out of line Rottieman33 .....but then I'm not really surprised / given the rest of your comments and attitudes about the rules of Skeet .....

With all due respect to your friend shooting a $10K shotgun ....( and 10K or
$25K shotguns on a Skeet field aren't uncommon - and it doesn't give him any extra credibility ) ....but its also clear he doesn't know what he's talking about / so I doubt he's a registered Skeet shooter or he would know better..

You can continue to do whatever you want - at least at that club ...
------------------------
but save your breath ....this conversations boring ....
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Old March 7, 2011, 03:18 PM   #74
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How does the arguing continue are we in kindergarden.
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Old March 7, 2011, 03:29 PM   #75
rottieman33
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Bigjimp and oneounceshot there both Mr. know it all. there right and every body else is wrong. so sense i can't call it skeet what should I call it throwing lead a orange painted clay circles.
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