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Old March 6, 2011, 09:05 PM   #26
oneounceload
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I must be missing something. I hope you are not inferring that by simply owning a Saiga 12, it means you are an unsafe shooter!
Never said that either - amazing how moronic folks can get - it was the use of 10 rounds at a time that is unsafe, and the other posters need to open carry a loaded pistol on the trap line because he feels those "old men" might attack him
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Old March 6, 2011, 09:05 PM   #27
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Guests must be accompanied at all times. Are you supposed to accompany your guest to the toilet?
The ranger master himself as well as all the other employees all had no issue with it and I asked them before hand, it was the complaints of the previously mentioned angry old men which prompted them to ask me to remove it.

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"old men" might attack him
Considering one of the event patrons angrily threatened to pepper his scorer that's really all the impetus I needed. Thanks for the sarcasm though, I'm sorry you're so afraid of people being capable of defending themselves.
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Old March 6, 2011, 09:07 PM   #28
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Then the way I look at it is. If you don't like the gun I am shooting then you can leave.
Not really - you can go find some pasture to have fun at your heart's consent..I could care less if you want to shoot clays with a 50BMG - just not at a regular club where the course of fire is established - so take your myopic attitude and apply it to your video game
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Old March 6, 2011, 09:09 PM   #29
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I also have a saiga 12 but I shot 5 stand with mine it all comes down to the people going to that paticular range. At my range thelle allow you to use any shotgun asking as you have somesort of butstock on it. Rottieman I'm on you side with thisone. As long as your safe with whatever your doin then go on and do it.
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Old March 6, 2011, 09:13 PM   #30
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oneounceload, Seems to me you are trolling. Nothing wrong with shooting a Saiga 12 at ANY sporting event. Heck they even make chokes for them. Nothing wrong with wearing a pistol to the line FOR ANY REASON as long as its legal and/or its not against the rules. Tons of people have been killed at ranges for their firearms. In PA there was a recent spree of murders at their local public ranges. Its simple. If you don't like it you can leave. If the range officer doesn't like it, they can tell the shooter to leave. Plain and simple.
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Old March 6, 2011, 09:15 PM   #31
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I also have a saiga 12 but I shot 5 stand with mine it all comes down to the people going to that paticular range.
If it can be handled safely so everyone can see that, I personally do not have an issue - it is the loading a 10 round mag that is objectionable, as is shooting shot larger than 7-1/2, or - as one person seems to feel is necessary - open-carrying on a range - no need for any of that when safety is paramount
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Old March 6, 2011, 09:16 PM   #32
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Oneounceload if you were there shooting with me and asked us not to shoot the 10 round mag cause you thought it was unsafe I would of stoped. I do respect the wishes of other people but the range master did not have a problem with it. They way you did type the comment about people have that type of gun It did sound like you were saying we were unsafe people.
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Old March 6, 2011, 09:17 PM   #33
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oneounceload, Seems to me you are trolling.
Right..............try again

see post above
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Old March 6, 2011, 09:17 PM   #34
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shooting from the roof is just stupid and asking for trouble.
AMEN
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I must be missing something. I hope you are not inferring that by simply owning a Saiga 12, it means you are an unsafe shooter! Explain to me how shooting a Saiga 12 on a skeet range is any more dangerous than shooting any other firearm. With the simple addition of a breech flag, all at the range can rest easy that you are not walking around loaded.
Let's face reality, newbies are typically considered to be unaware of all the procedures, including the safety rules. Those who want their practice rounds as close to match conditions as possible may not wish to be squaded with newbies. One of the marks of a newby is a gun that isn't considered appropriate. It doesn't matter how accomplished and safe you are with a Saiga, or other tactical-type shotgun, it's gonna mark you as a newby at the Trap or Skeet fields until you become a known factor at that club.
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Old March 6, 2011, 09:19 PM   #35
oneounceload
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Oneounceload if you were there shooting with me and asked us not to shoot the 10 round mag cause you thought it was unsafe I would of stoped. I do respect the wishes of other people but the range master did not have a problem with it. They way you did type the comment about people have that type of gun It did sound like you were saying we were unsafe people.
Then we have no problem - issue resolved
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Old March 6, 2011, 09:21 PM   #36
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Here's a better question, why do people want to handicap themselves with only two rounds? That's the silly part of shooting skeet, not their fear of black guns.


On the other hand I'm considering a Mossberg HS12 as my first over under.
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Old March 6, 2011, 09:27 PM   #37
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Here's a better question, why do people want to handicap themselves with only two rounds? That's the silly part of shooting skeet, not their fear of black guns.
Because, at the most, you will have only two targets to shoot at - 1 shot per target


It comes down to safety - which is why Beretta developed the UGB break-open semi auto gun - in Europe, a safety officer has to be able to determine that every gun is safe when not on the shooting line - he can only do that if he can determine that each gun is broken open

This is where I am coming from - there's no reason for open carry, multi-round magazines or anything else. If you can prove your shotgun is safe and only loading 2 rounds max, then have at it - but remember, folks are watching you to make sure things are safe - that adds distraction - annoying to someone trying to run the line at trap or skeet

if you can demonstrate safe habits - have at it
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Old March 6, 2011, 09:29 PM   #38
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The max i had was 4 round at 4 stations 1 from high house 1 from low house then doubles
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Old March 6, 2011, 09:40 PM   #39
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rottieman - here's the deal - for safety reasons -yes at station 1 you will fire 4 shots, possibly 5, total (including option). however, you never need to load more than 2 - whether a mag or tube gun, this is important for several reasons

one - it changes the balance with added weight
two - and more importantly from a safety aspect - if there is a glitch with the machines......a NOT-uncommon scenario - you might forget about one of the rounds inadvertently - thereby allowing you to have a loaded weapon as you walk off station

It doesn't matter if you are 18 and the Saiga is you first gun or if you are 65 and shooting the same Browning for 60 years

OOPS happen and the rules are there to make sure those odds are the smallest as possible

THAT'S where I am coming from - if that upsets some folks.....I don't care if it means someone doesn't get hurt because "I thought it was unloaded", then so be it

Hope you understand that
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Old March 6, 2011, 09:42 PM   #40
Marrok
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Iam a new guy here, so hello everyone.

Secondly, I htink how Rottie is being flamed for something that is considered safe and usable at his range doesnt mean that people whos ranges dont allow them should be throwing stones.

Ranges around my area love saigas and 10 round mags, and let people use them for skeet/trap.
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Old March 6, 2011, 10:08 PM   #41
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It comes down to safety - which is why Beretta developed the UGB break-open semi auto gun - in Europe, a safety officer has to be able to determine that every gun is safe when not on the shooting line - he can only do that if he can determine that each gun is broken open



See now that makes sense to me....I thought it was just people being paranoid, but I can understand this completely now.

Thanks for explaining it.
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Old March 6, 2011, 10:18 PM   #42
Dave McC
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Everyone should take a deep breath and chill.

A couple things.....

A year or two ago I was lent a box stock Saiga 12 with two five round mags for an extended T&E. When I showed it to the Geezer Squad, they tried it out.

That means that guys with accumulated centuries of shotgunning behind them set down a Model 12 Trap, a Winchester 21 and a nice little Parker 20 to shoot the Kalishnikov. They liked it and we were shooting trap.

I do not care if the guy next to me on the line is shooting a Mossberg, a Piotti, or a belt fed 8 gauge,as long as they are safe and courteous( in that order) I'm fine with it.
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Old March 6, 2011, 10:22 PM   #43
Marrok
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like you said dave, it all boils down to safety. theres no difference between safety of a 5 round mag or 10 round, or even a 2 round mag, its all the operator of the gun. if youve been deemed safe by the range operator, then your good.
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Old March 6, 2011, 10:39 PM   #44
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As a newbie, I have to say this is a bunch of horse ****.

While I have taken a black 18" short barrel to the skeet range, at a public club that allows shorter barrels, every one was friendly on both the skeet and trap fields. Perhaps because I didn't have an attitude.

I suspect that you were displaying an attitude not only by toting the S12, but the glock. Although a newbie, I have been out this year over a half dozen times to shotgun ranges and have yet to see anyone carrying a pistol; including range officers.

As for what the LEO did, officers are people like all of us and some of them do stupid things.

Let's get one thing straight, did the range officer actually tell you it was alright to load up the mag or are assuming it was OK because he did not object.

If you had express permission and no one else was on the field, I see nothing wrong with shooting a full mag without changing stations. Otherwise, I don't want to be around you.
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Old March 6, 2011, 10:45 PM   #45
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We did ask the range master first and the range was clear except for me and the shooter and we stayed in 1 spot. I stood off to his left side pressing the buttons to to the high and low house.
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Old March 6, 2011, 11:10 PM   #46
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I see no big deal with loading up the mag, then, but I still wonder about carrying the loaded pistol. Was there even a pistol range?

Regarldess, for safety reasons like others pointed out the only firearm that is to be loaded is the one being shot and only then while on your station.

Why were you even carrying and are you aware that some interpretations of concealed carry law is that a permit only entitles you to carry concealed, but here you were open carrying a loaded weapon.
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Old March 6, 2011, 11:50 PM   #47
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wow u guys need to chill out
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Old March 7, 2011, 12:19 AM   #48
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Usally the range rules will mirror the insurance policy for the club. Normally the first rule is that the only loaded gun on the premises is one that is having a presented target thrown. It will only have the number of rounds that equal the number of targets thrown. This means all others are unloaded and broken open. That goes for all firearms. If you have a gun you carry then you need to pull the clip and open the action. It probably is in violation of the insurance policy, thus the range rules. I would think that this is an accurate description of most clubs with insurance.
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Old March 7, 2011, 12:39 AM   #49
Marrok
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sorry olddrum1, but i have a small itch for people that say "clip" when referring to a magazine.
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Old March 7, 2011, 12:56 AM   #50
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I believe Will Ferrell in Anchorman said it best when he said

"Boy, that escalated quickly... I mean, that really got out of hand fast."
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