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Old March 5, 2011, 09:23 AM   #1
saudst
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Sabos?

I tried this question in the reloading area and got no hits. I thought maybe you all may be able to help.

I'm curious to know if anyone has tried, or has info on loads useing sub caliber sabo loads in a revolver? Will the forceing cone deform the sabo and create higher preasure? I'm thinking of the sabos used for muzle loaders specificly. Thank you

Tim
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Old March 5, 2011, 01:06 PM   #2
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SaboT
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Old March 5, 2011, 01:46 PM   #3
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I guess I would have to ask; for what purpose? What would be your expectations for doing so? Certainly not questioning your use in this service, just trying to understand where you are going. .....


In Spanish, they are called Sabotos ......


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Old March 5, 2011, 02:39 PM   #4
mega twin
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It would be nice to be able to shoot a spitzer 22 cal. bullet out of a 357 mag.
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Old March 5, 2011, 09:25 PM   #5
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I don't see any reason it wouldn't work, but there is one point of interest. The factory ammo made that way (Remington Accelerator) had to have the sabots sealed in the case neck under heat to provide enough resistance for the powder to burn properly, and heating the necks of loaded rounds is not a DIY proposition. Heavy crimping might work OK in a .357 case, but a lot of experimentation will be needed unless there is some knowledge out there I don't know about.

Accuracy? I don't know. The Accelerators were not especially accurate and never shot to the same point of aim as the standard ammo; I suspect the same would be true of sabot loads in a revolver.

Jim
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Old March 6, 2011, 07:18 AM   #6
mete
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I'd hate to have the sabot come off as it hits the forcing cone. I'll bet thats why they aren't used.
The old Speer 3/4 jacket swc bullets had a recommended minimum velocity because of this ! Otherwise they were excellent bullets !
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Old March 6, 2011, 12:53 PM   #7
James K
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I think the sabot would have to be made so it wouldn't come off, but that doesn't kill the idea. Sabots would have to be hand make anyway until the concept is proven, then it would be hard to get a plastics company interested until you talk a few million. That is where the problem comes in!

Oh, and better check Remington's patents.

Jim
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Old March 6, 2011, 01:47 PM   #8
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Sabots shot from tanks are extremely accurate. The military loves them.

Sabots shot from small arms are not accurate. I give up.


My father [table pounding chief engineer] sold his gun designs at Rock Island Arsenal and Detroit Arsenal and tested them at the Yakima firing range and the Yuma firing range, in the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's.
Some of his guns shot sabots.
He pronounces it SAY' bow.

I have just bought sabots mail order and only talk about them through my keyboard.
I pronounce it SA' bot.
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Old March 6, 2011, 10:26 PM   #9
James K
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I don't have an M1A1 tank (fuel costs, you know), but I fired a fair number of Remington Accelerators in both .30-30 and .30-'06 and never got the accuracy that the basic rifles were capable of with the original ammo. Accuracy wasn't bad, around 2-3 MOA IIRC, but nowhere near what I could get out of the original caliber rifles or out of a good varmint rifle like my .22-250.

The purpose of that ammunition was to allow owners of rifles chambered for those calibers to use them for varmint hunting, so the bullets were .22 caliber in the .30 sabots.

BTW, I pronounce it SAY-bot, but the word is French and I won't even attempt the original pronunciation. (Just FWIW, it means a wooden shoe like the Dutch once wore; in labor disputes when machines were first introduced, workers threw their shoes into the machines, wrecking them, from which rose the term "sabotage.")

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Old March 12, 2011, 08:11 PM   #10
hardhat harry
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20 years in the Army...we pronounced 'em SAY BO.

(TC) Driver STOP..Gunner SABOT..Tank 1500 meters.
(Loader) UP!
(Gunner) IDENTIFIED!
(TC) FIRE!!
(Gunner) ON THE WAY
(TC) TARGET ON THE TANK, Cease Fire, Driver Move Out.

That was before the M1, and real fire on the move became REAL.
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Old March 12, 2011, 08:19 PM   #11
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Sabot (correctly pronounced SAY-boh, it's originally a French word) rounds are amazing in the correct configuration, especially in bolt-action and/or single shot arrangements (and a military tank main gun is essentially a single shot weapon). I'm not sure how you'd get over the mechanical difficulties of trying that in a revolver. The transition through the forcing cone would present several engineering issues.

Neat idea if you could get it to work though.
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Old March 12, 2011, 09:05 PM   #12
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I'm not sure I'd look for them in a 357 Mag, you can buy a 5.7x28. Where the sabot really shines is in a 30-378 Wby, at least if your goal is to see a 5 as first digit on your chrono. Knowing you rival the Paris gun for speed is a good thing.
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Old March 15, 2011, 05:41 PM   #13
saudst
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sabots

First let me appoligize for my miss spelling of Sabot, Phonix I guess:] Also thank you all for replying, I have never heard of such a thing in a revolver either but wanted to put it out there to see if anyone has done this before. I remember the Remington loads and the reports of them not shooting well and that was in a more contained chamber than a revolver set up.

I have a 500 Smith, and also reload for my 44 Mag. and one day me and a freind were inquireing about tradeing it in for the 460 Smith for a flater shooting set up. The gunshops are not willing to make a very good deal with me, and my freind says latter " what about useing the sabots for you muzle loader "? After the initial coolness wore off ( 20 seconds ) I thought cylinder gap, forceing cone and the fact that the preasure would be 4 to 6 times greater than these sabots were designed for. I'm not one to experiment with something beyond my capabilities to the point it may be dangerous. I make my liveing with my hands and eyes, and they are worth more than several 460's to me. Thanks for your replies, I will put this one in the won't work drawer.

Tim.
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Old March 15, 2011, 06:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Sabot (correctly pronounced SAY-boh, it's originally a French word)
Just to throw fuel on the fire, yes it is a French word, it means "shoe", and is pronounced sah-boh (I lived in Belgium as a youngster). And using the US military as an authority on pronunciation is a fallacy (appeal to authority), especially since most of them cannot speak French. But you say it any way you like. Just pardon me if I smirk . . .

More on topic, sabots fired from revolvers have to deal with the barrel/cylinder gap and the forcing cone. From what I read about attempts to develop sabot rounds for revolvers in the 1960s, they do not deal with it well.
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