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Old March 3, 2011, 08:15 PM   #1
TheKlawMan
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Cutting 870 Synthetic Stock

Having shot some, perhaps 250+ rounds, and taking a basic skeet course I am convinced I need a shorter LOP. Coach Don at the skeet class thought it too long. My 870 has a 14 and I beieve I need a 13.

I have read some threads about cutting the 870 Synthetic and it isn't easy. I have the tools, table saw, chop saw, files and my favorite (a dremel).

Attached are some pictures of the recoil pad and the open end of the standard stock. I think it may be tricky to cut it back and also reduce the width of the step down section of the recoil pad, which fist into the hollow stock, and cut the two areas that protruce into the stocdk's hollow that the recoil pads screws lag to.

Do you think this is a minefield to attempt to cut.

My other options is to get a wood stock, which is easier to cut, or a shorter stock. I believe Remington or is it Hogue makes a 13". I may even want to go with a 12 and a shim kit so I can set it up for my wife and daughter to get some time on when set for 12, while keeping it adjsuted all the rest of the time for me at somewhere between 12-1/2 to 13.

Lilke BigJim elsewhere suggested I do not want to put much $$$ into the 870, since I may get a better suitied target gun.

Here are some pictures of what is involved.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 001.jpg (254.9 KB, 126 views)
File Type: jpg Gun Stock 001.jpg (233.8 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg Gun Stock 002.jpg (236.5 KB, 112 views)
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Old March 3, 2011, 09:22 PM   #2
mwar410
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Like you noted, the way the recoil pads are on the syn. stocks, it would be difficult job. They usually are stock specific pads, and as you shorten the length, the smaller the pad would be, it would be hard to find a pad to fit. I'm not sure how a grind to fit pad for a wood stock, would work.

I would look for a youth stock set, I don't think they are much more than $75.
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Old March 4, 2011, 04:16 PM   #3
TheKlawMan
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mwar410, Here is a link to a very good post that I found on cutting the Remmington stock. Its OP thinks the youth stock is just the standard synthetic stock with 1" lopped off. I comment at the end that there are some differences but questiion if they make a difference.

He was told that limbsaver makes a pad to fit and ordered one, but the one he received was the wrong one so the jury is out as to whether or not llimbsaver makes a pad for the youth stock and, if it does, will it work with the cut down standard. I am going to pm the OP and see if he got the right pad and what were the results.

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/shotgun...ml#post2763569
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Old March 9, 2011, 09:12 PM   #4
TheKlawMan
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I guess I am going to cut the stock on my table saw if I can get a plastic cutting blade, a 7" will do for cheap. I determined that the butt is cut pependicular to the comb and if I only wish to take an inch off I can fit the butt up against the fence and I can situqate the mitre gauge so it faces flat along the comb.

Another observbation if anyone esle is dumb enough to cut a synthetic 870 stock. I was concerned about it rocking and figured out that if I dissasemble it down to the receiver, stpock and mag tube, that left side of the receiver rides flat on the table so I shouldn't have much of a problem with any rocking.

To be safe, I will mark the cut line first, cut up to just short of it, and finish with a dremel, file, and hand sanding. Of couse wrap masking tape aroung the stock in the area of the cut and scibe the cut line on it, as it woud be impossible to see on the black stock.

If anyone thinks I am making a mistake feel free to save Mr. DoIturself form himself.

The one thing I have yet to figure out is will I be able to grind either the stock recoil pad or the Remington Super Cell Recoil Pad down to fit the contour of the cut stock.
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Old March 9, 2011, 09:25 PM   #5
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TheKlawMan,
I suspect cutting the stock will be the easy part. Getting the pad to fit the shorter stock will be a bigger test of your talents. Let us know how it comes out, and how it shoots.
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Old March 10, 2011, 01:22 AM   #6
TheKlawMan
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That is just what I was thinking, Zippy. Cutting the pad incuding filing should take no more than an hour, but I have hear the horror stories some go through with even freezing the pads to enable them to be gorund. At dinner I learned that my Son that he really liked shooting it when I took him to Prado and he would like to have it if I was to get another gun some day. Since he is over 5'10" the standard stock fits him fine amd I may keep it and go with the 13 incher.
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Old March 10, 2011, 12:02 PM   #7
KevininPa
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Choate Machine and Tool makes........

........a stock with removable shims to adjust length of pull. I just ordered one for a Remington 7615 rifle(takes 20ga 870 buttstocks). ATI makes an adjustable sporting stock called the Akita but it's kind of pricey. And to be honest, I always got a cheapish feeling from thier products.
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Old March 10, 2011, 06:24 PM   #8
leadcounsel
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I may be missing the obvious, but why not an M4 style adjustable stock to suit all of your family shooters...?
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Old March 10, 2011, 07:34 PM   #9
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I believe the youth 870 stock is 13" LOP and can be had in wood or sythetic.

If you are determined to cut the plastic stock make a plywood insert, sand to fit and epoxy it in. Then you can mount any grind to fit pad you choose. remember to account for pad thickness when you cut the stock. Kick eeze has a guide online that will get you close to stock dimension so there is less grinding.

A secondhand express wood stock cut to length then painted with Brownells textured paint is an easier fix and will match your sythetic forend pretty well.

A bandsaw and tabletop belt sander will make the job easier.
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Old March 11, 2011, 02:17 AM   #10
TheKlawMan
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Some very good ideas.

KevinPA, Removable shims are a good idea but I wonder what the llimit is to how much length I can add with shims. If I had to I could easily fashion some out of wood and to cover everyone in my family I would have to be able to shorten it to no more than 12" and be able to shim it to at least 14" including pad.

leadcousel, If I thought my wife and daughter would shoot much, an adjustable stock would make sense, but if they did shoot much I would spring for a second gun. and th fact is I kind of like a traditional stock for what it will mostly be used for, which is range targets. A traditional stock will also be easier for me to modify as I might.

LSnSC, Off toic. My wife has a siter in Lexinton, SC and we get back there pretty often. Beutiful state with friendly people on the top of our list for retirement. Back to the stock. Cutting the plut was someting I wondered about since the walls of the stock and the ribs are not much.

Alas I don't have a bandsaw or a bendh top belt sander, but my table saw is dead on accurate and I can borrow a belt sander.

I have also thought of going w\ith used wood, but if I do I will replace the forend and stock and keep it natural wood, ahough I may refinish it.

And there is always the youth stock, which has thicker walls in case I wanted to shorten it even more.

I am going shooting tomorrow and perhaps will hold off a bit before deciding on cutting it and by how much. The more I get use to the 870 the greater the LOP shrinks.
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Old March 11, 2011, 08:12 PM   #11
LSnSC
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South Carolina is a great place to retire. Its a very gun/hunter friendly state. My two sons attend a school that has a shotgun team. The South Carolina Youth Shooting Foundation originally started with a few private schools competing. It grew to include gun clubs, 4H and now some public schools are participating. They shoot skeet trap and sporting clays. The sporting matches are the most popular with our last match having over 200 shooters.
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Old March 11, 2011, 08:17 PM   #12
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Like LSnSC said, why not just look for a new/used 870 youth stock?

-7-
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Old March 11, 2011, 10:24 PM   #13
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TheKlawMan,

Bought a 12" LOP Hogue synthetic stock and it shoots like a dream. Got it off Gunbroker -- total price shipped was under $60. The stock itself comes with a decent recoil pad, but when you put a Limbsaver recoil pad on there ($20 at your local Walmart), it feels/fits even better (that's what she said) and increases LOP to 13". That ability to go from 12" LOP (Hogue) to 13" LOP (just add on the Limbsaver) makes me giddy.

respectfully,
Moose

Last edited by anonimoose; March 11, 2011 at 10:43 PM.
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Old March 13, 2011, 09:24 PM   #14
TheKlawMan
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Yeah. The more I think of it I don't want to cut the original stock but may get a youth stock. Ths standard LOP I can work with and is perfect for my son, but my wife really needs the youth size. I haven't seen a limbsaver at the local Walmaart, but guns and hunting aren't big in Cali and it may be online. The 12" LOP would be fine when it is configured for home defense and about 13" is probably pretty good for me when I go to the range. I am actually probably a 13.5" LOP but it should work as well as the 14" I have. I think I will look into if there is a quick change slip on limbsaver that I can easily swap on and off.

As it is I have now got my wife to shoulder the 870 set up as light as possibe (with the 18" barrela nd without the magazine extension). She is still afraid of it but I think she will come around as long as I don't push and when she is ready load her up with some ultra light recoil loads.

Meanwhile I am finding a lot of shooters bring their wife's shotgun with a youth stock to the range and I may be able to set things up for her to try one of their's.

This shooiting reminds me of Saturday Night Live's Gilda Radner and "If it's not one thing it's another."

As for South Carolina, there is about a 80% probability that the wife and the family will be there in July.
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Old March 13, 2011, 10:47 PM   #15
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Check out the Remington Country Store, they have a complete 870 youth (13" LOP) stock w/ monte carlo for $50.
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Old March 14, 2011, 02:36 AM   #16
TheKlawMan
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Zippy, What is the benefit of a Monte Carlo? Does it help if you have a long neck? I read something about how it is beneficial if you use a scope since it enables the shooter to elevate his head while keeping the stock low. I have to check, as the fashion I am mounting is rapidly mutating, but I was having a problem where if I kept my head up and brought the comp to my cheek an inch or more of the heel was higher than my shoulder.

"The Monte Carlo comb (B) is commonly found on stocks designed for use with scopes, and features an elevated comb to lift the cheek higher, while keeping the heel of the stock low. A cheekpiece (C) is a raised section on the side of the stock, which provides support for the shooter's cheek. There is some confusion between these terms, as the features are often combined, with the raised rollover cheekpiece (D) extending to the top of the stock to form a high Monte Carlo comb.
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Old March 14, 2011, 11:35 AM   #17
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You're right there is some confusion. Even Remington isn't consistent: They call the $1,081 Wingmaster Classic Trap's stock a Monte Carlo, but for $89 more the same stock in the 1100 Classic Trap is called Competition-style, go figure.

My friend, BigJimP, a major proponent of the parallel stock, would be better at describing its myriad benefits. Three advantages are: consistent mounting, a better view of the target and reduced felt recoil (kick) to the cheek.
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Old March 14, 2011, 03:00 PM   #18
TheKlawMan
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I will pm BigJim and see if he has some thoughts on this, but I have virtually no cheek slap.
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Old March 14, 2011, 03:40 PM   #19
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There are a lot of terms out there ....but in my mind a "parallel comb stock" means the comb on the gun is parallel to the rib. As far as I know most Monte Carlo stocks are parallel to the rib of the gun ....and yes, they are common in rifles - where you need to have the comb elevated in order to see thru a scope.

The parallel comb stocks are also common on a lot of competition shotguns / especially "Trap" guns / but these days, I see a lot of them on the Skeet and Sporting Clays fields too. The Browning Citori XS Skeet model - is my primary gun for Skeet, Sporting and bird hunting ..and it comes with either a fixed parallel comb / or in a model with an adjustable parallel comb.

The reason I like the adj comb model in a parallel comb ...and say it will fit 99.9% of the shooters out there ....is 2 things.... (1). If you move up or back on the comb / shoot in a T shirt or a heavy coat ...the sight picture does not change and neither does the point of impact. On an angled comb (like an 870 / or on a number of O/U's like the Browning Citori 625 series / if you move up or back 1/4" - it raises or drops the muzzle of the gun / has a big impact on your point of impact. So angled combs - have to be fit / very precisely in order to work / and you end up with an "outfit" that you have to shoot in 100% of the time /or the point of impact will change.

Because the comb is parallel - the gun has more of a tendency to recoil straight back and under your cheek bone as opposed to "push your face into the cheek bone" causing face slap. ( 2). The adj comb - means you can raise or lower the point of impact on the gun to shoot a 50%/50% pattern or as high as a 60%/40% pattern - and it still stays parallel to the rib of the shotgun.

To me its a perfect system.
--------------
When I've cut shotgunstocks - I've always used a jig - so they don't roll / holding them down in a firm position / and I've done it on a bandsaw - for more control / but it can be done on a tablesaw as well ( use a veneer blade probably ) - and a crosscut sled to move the stock ( and yes, take it off the receiver). I'm not a "stockmaker" - so I havent' done many... Ideally you would want a stationary belt sander - to fine tune the cut ( not a portable belt sander - it won't give you any control). Keep portable high speed tools like Dremels away from your stock ....they don't give you enough control ..in my opinon.

It doesn't look to me like you have enough meat on that stock to shorten it a full inch ...but I'm having a hard time believing you need to go that short.

Before you cut that stock ...I'd recommend you shoot some other guns if you can / ideally at least one Citori XS Skeet with a parallel comb ---and see how that feels. Measure some of the length of pulls on other guns ...and see if you can figure out what feels the best ...

Last edited by BigJimP; March 14, 2011 at 04:18 PM.
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Old March 14, 2011, 05:23 PM   #20
TheKlawMan
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BigJim;

I had never thought of the difference between a parallel stock and what I now realize is an angled stock on the 870, but it makes sense that how far back I am on it would change ny view.

There are so many things I am getting used to that I am not sure, but it does seem that when I lean forward I am further up towards the receiver and usually hit more targets. I suppose it true having a better pictrure could account for this.

I actually don't think a 14 is that long for me, but a 13.5 would be fine. I was thinking of a 13 so to make it a little easier for my wife and daughter, but they will hardly ever shoot.

I shot that Beretta O/U during that class, but there was so much going on it wasn't a fair test. I think it had something like a 12-3/4 LOP. I was shooting without my RX glasses and it took some time to get use to the much different gun and it is in a completely different class than mine. That wasn't a Monte Carlo.

The more I think on it the more unlikely it is I cut this stock. It is perfect for my son (his face lit up wnen I mentioned keeping the standard stock since it will be his someday). If I did cut it, I sure don't want to waste a good blade on fiberglass ( I have a new WoodWorker II).

One of the best peices of advice is to wait a bit longer to decide on mesing with the stock and to try some others first. Maybe I will have to scare up some work and buy one or two more (a 1l00 for the woman and another toy for me).

Thanks Jim.
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Old March 14, 2011, 05:40 PM   #21
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Caribbean salsa candle? Seen it all
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Old March 14, 2011, 06:00 PM   #22
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I run all Forrest blades on my saws as well ....and the 40T Woodworker II is my primary 10" table saw blade - on an old Delta 3HP 10" cabinet saw
/ and I have one of their stack dado blades as well ....and I use their 10" Chopmaster or my Makita cut off saw ...

They're great blades ....and you won't hurt them running thru a synthetic stock ( unless you hit something metal with them ). I've used the same blades on plexiglass - for some shop cabinets...and no issues.

I have a couple of Amana blades / one is for melamine and one is for solid surfaces ( like quartz ) ...and while they're ok ...( and they're a little more expensive than Forrest blades ) ..the Woodworker II stays on my tablesaw 99% of the time. I was cutting some 3" hard rock maple / some cherry / and some Black Walnut last weekend ...for some cutting board blanks ...and the woodworker II went right thru it without a whimper ...and very little burning ( which is hard to do on maple ) ....and I got "glue up" quality cuts on everything.

So don't worry about that blade... / and stock up at the woodworking show when they come to town ... I got a couple more blades last Fall for around
$ 110 each / which was a pretty good deal - because they're retailing in my area now for around $ 140 I think ....
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