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Old February 23, 2011, 01:03 PM   #76
nefprotector
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Wow! I believe that I would be carrying any damn ways. Just dont advertise it. Better safe than sorry. That or start exercising and a practicing with a good old long cane Hickory walking stick.
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Old February 23, 2011, 01:21 PM   #77
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Bob.A Congrats for being aware of your surroundings & able to make assessments. Since you live & work in states that do not allow CCW, I would also recommend a tazer, Kimber pepperspray & a cell phone. Wolfeye, you keep going through life as you are & we will read about you being a victim some day. Nothing good comes from being politically correct.

Getting back to the point, I have carried now everyday for 23+ years & only drew my firearm 2 times. Granted, I'm not a small fellow but do go into less than desirable area's daily for work.

Along with ccw comes a great responsibility of when to use deadly force both legally & morally. I seriously encourage everyone to try to take at least one course in it or read books relating to carrying. Most colleges & local gun clubs or ranges have such offerings. NRA certified courses such as First Steps, Protection in the home, Protection outside the home & advanced Carry are just a few. If you want to drive a car, motorcycle, pilot a boat or fly an airplane you are required to study & take a test why not to carry a gun?

Nothing can totally prepare you for a life or death situation but being educated & proficient can be helpful if yourself in harms way. Do not allow a firearm to give you a false security either. Try to avoid confrontation if at all possible. Trying to not put yourself at risk should be paramount. Be alert & leave yourself an out always.
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Old February 23, 2011, 02:51 PM   #78
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Bob.A Congrats for being aware of your surroundings & able to make assessments. Wolfeye, you keep going through life as you are & we will read about you being a victim some day. Nothing good comes from being politically correct.

Getting back to the point, I have carried now everyday for 23+ years & only drew my firearm 2 times. Granted, I'm not a small fellow but do go into less than desirable area's daily for work.

Along with ccw comes a great responsibility of when to use deadly force both legally & morally. I seriously encourage everyone to try to take at least one course in it or read books relating to carrying. Most colleges & local gun clubs or ranges have such offerings. NRA certified courses such as First Steps, Protection in the home, Protection outside the home & advanced Carry are just a few. If you want to drive a car, motorcycle, pilot a boat or fly an airplane you are required to study & take a test why not to carry a gun?

Nothing can totally prepare you for a life or death situation but being educated & proficient can be helpful if yourself in harms way. Do not allow a firearm to give you a false security either. Try to avoid confrontation if at all possible. Trying to not put yourself at risk should be paramount. Be alert & leave yourself an out always.
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Old February 28, 2011, 02:03 AM   #79
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Be confident

I wouldn't let anyone enter my space and hang around without asking them a simple question "What's up?". I don't wait for surprises and I try not to be an a$$ but I agree showing awareness works in your favor most of the time.

If you suffer from poor health, you should carry an equilizer in order to feel safe if you need to go out at night.
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Old February 28, 2011, 11:23 AM   #80
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Best Defense...Good Offense or Avoidance?

Interesting scenario - more so that it is real and affects a LOT of us guys hitting 50 and beyond. Women (those who don't walk around oblivious, anyway) likely experience this all too often. How can you prepare? Tasers suck, unless the target is wearing only a thin t-shirt. A medium jacket can deny contact points. Plus they require some time to deliver an incapacitating charge. A stun gun requires close personal contact. Bear spray is a big can - wear it on your belt outside your jacket, or you won't have it when you need it.

A cane can be a great defensive weapon, if you know how to use it. On an unskilled opponent, you may not even need to know how to use it - just beat the snot out of them. Put a lanyard on it to aid in weapon retention. Better still, carry a Sjambok - google it if you're not familiar. Nothing better for a beatdown and it's generally not legally considered a weapon - check your laws and ask your police if it would be legal where you live.

Still, a gun is the best equalizer that exists, and is especially empowering for the elderly, infirm, or female. I'm not that small, but i'd hate to take on a kid even my own size these days - i'm 50 years old and "aint what i used to be", even without any disability or medical conditions. Disparity of force is real, and getting more real every year. I would suggest you seriously consider the likelihood of a threat to your life, or that of your loved ones. If the threat is enough to make you carry a knife (the single worst self-defense weapon possible, suitable only for maybe Steven Segal) you need to seriously consider the pros/cons of carrying your pistol.

No, i do not advocate breaking the law. But a law that disarms the law-abiding and leaves them vulnerable to criminal attack is unjust and not working. Work through your elected representatives to get this law changed. If you decide that the threat isn't sufficient, or the consequences too severe if caught, then follow the advice about threat avoidance and alternative defense strategies. And let your electees know how you feel and what you want changed. If you decide to carry anyway, make absolutely sure you don't print and don't talk about it - to anyone. Oh, and avoid metal detectors.

You know the world is screwed up when you have to carry a weapon in order to defend against criminals, but doing so makes you a criminal.

Good luck.
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Old February 28, 2011, 12:09 PM   #81
Eagle0711
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My response is different than most. I'm 66 and not in good health.

He is the predator, and you[we] are the prey.

Speak in a confident voice " hows it going " as you palm your open knife, and close the reactionary gap.

Now, the roles are reversed, you are the hunter and he is the target.

If he doesn't back off or show signs of non aggression, you must go into action.
A lot if gory damage can be accomplished with a knife.

Immediately call 911 for an ambulance for him and the police. Just make sure that the meat wagon is for him and not you [me].

Brutal? yes, but that is the way it works in the real world. You can think about moving to another state at a later date, or some other plan.
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Old March 1, 2011, 06:49 PM   #82
bob.a
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I appreciate the informed and useful advice provided herein.

At the moment I'm not ready for illegal carry; what the future might bring is anyone's guess, but I don't want to risk a conviction while the courts seem to be moving in a direction toward loosened rules for defensive carry.

I have a nice blackwood stick on order, but dragging it in and out of a car during fillup might prove awkward. I'm thinking of a setup where I can clamp a can pf bear spray to the console, and just pop it off when I exit the auto; it's small enough to not be either a problem to remove, or to be an obvious threat to the general public.

As to pulling a knife and reversing the psychology of the encounter, it might be a little strong, and I'm not sure a 3" locking folder would do the trick. However, as it's always on my person, it would be a fallback if all else failed me.

As the population ages, this scenario will be played out on a much larger scale in future. It will eb interesting to see how our lawmakers respond to the needs of the elderly community. (I wonder if Florida's opening the door to easy carry a decade ago might have been prompted by this sort of consideration).

Thanks to all who have responded, and to anyone who might have something to add. We're all in this together.
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Old March 1, 2011, 07:19 PM   #83
Vanya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle0711
Speak in a confident voice " hows it going " as you palm your open knife, and close the reactionary gap.

Now, the roles are reversed, you are the hunter and he is the target.

If he doesn't back off or show signs of non aggression, you must go into action.
A lot if gory damage can be accomplished with a knife.

Immediately call 911 for an ambulance for him and the police. Just make sure that the meat wagon is for him and not you [me].
Going back to bob.a's original post, the man by whom he felt threatened was standing next to his car. Just... standing there.

I'm not going to say he wasn't a potential threat, but... I think if you attack someone with a knife just because he "doesn't back off," you may not be riding in the meat wagon, but you will be making a trip to the police station in the back of a squad car, and facing a charge of assault with a deadly weapon, or worse. I suspect you'd have a hard time convincing Officer Nice that you had to defend yourself with lethal force from a person who was standing on the other side of your car...

Seriously bad idea, IMHO.
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Old March 1, 2011, 10:58 PM   #84
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Bob, I don't think I can give you any advice, but I'll bet you could probably give me some. I think handled it as well as anyone in those circumstances could have. It certainly sounds like you had your brain fully engaged, and that's about all you can do in a situation like that. Glad the police passed by. That usually doesn't happen when you need it (no fault of the police).

It must really suck to live in those defense-free states. Glad I don't live and work there. Too bad your politicians feel it's necessary to leave their citizens twisting in the wind like that. What a shame.
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Old March 2, 2011, 03:23 AM   #85
Eagle0711
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Vanya, I agree with you if he was just standing there, or even if he asked for change or something similiar. It was my understanding that the OP was threatened. That could be done by body language, threats, or obvious aggression on his part.

I get your point and it's well taken. I would have to have a reason to be in fear of my life to do this. The knife was the only weapon available, so why not use it if you have to. You would likely be charged, but if it were truely self-defense you would probably be ok in the end.

But I see no reason to get badly beat-up or worse by some preadator You know the old saying about " better to br tried by 12 than carried by 6".

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Best, Eagle
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Old March 27, 2011, 06:22 PM   #86
Dusty Rivers
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don't be a victim

Stand up straight. Give the Dirty Harry -I'm a mean s.o. b. look. Make him think you are a navy seal training instructor. He has no clue who your are except by your body language, so stand proud and bad. Get a car security system that beeps the horn when you press a button on the key ring. Accidentally press the horn beep button. Whoops. Keep pepper spray on your key ring. Learn how to use your keys as a weapon. Kick his as- if necessary. You are one bad - fully prepared to die, gas pumper!!
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Old March 27, 2011, 09:31 PM   #87
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I can appreciate the dilemma. I live in NJ; another no ccw state. Fortunately, we in NJ not only have cheap gas, but we can't pump it ourselves. How about a solution never before expressed in a gun forum...move to NJ. Seriously, I'd consider myself lucky and would change my fuel buying habits so that I'm never again in such a spot. I've begun to carry a stout blackthorn walking cane when traveling to go along with a Kershaw Leek and a kubaton on my keychain. The mace spray sounds good too.
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Old March 27, 2011, 11:16 PM   #88
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I've said this before and will repeat it here. Wasp spray is an excellent weapon. Yet it will not likely be outlawed anywhere since it is not (wink, wink) a weapon like a gun, knife, or pepper spray which some liberal agency may have outlawed. It sprays 25 feet or more in a heavy, wet, flow and will saturate whatever it hits. The can puts out a deluge of spray -- not an atomized mist as with most repellents. It will cause temporary blindness and a terrific burning sensation in the eyes. You could always justify having a can of it in the car and if you are pumping gas at an uncomfortable time or place, just slip the can into your pocket as you get out. If someone actually approaches you in a threatening manner such as with a weapon, just spray it continuously at his face and move out of the way or whatever he swings or points at you (gun, knife, club, fists).

Let me be clear. You do not spray him because he looks scary. You spray him if he actually makes a physically threatening move or statement. You must be "certain" that he is trying to harm you.

Then of course, while he is screaming and confused (and he will be), leave the scene. If you have not paid yet, stop at a safe place and call the police. They will understand and escort you back to pay.
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Old March 28, 2011, 12:52 AM   #89
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Kind of OT

FWIW I had to walk 10 minutes in Houston at 10:30PM last night that I have never been to before in my life. I dont know if it was a bad area or not, but I had a folding knife in my hand the whole time, and no one was near me. Its called being prepared.

If you moved to Virginia that would be great but I don't think it would help you. You are still having to drive into MD and DC for work so the second you are 10 mins from your house and cross the border into MD/DC you are now carrying illegally all the same.
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Old March 28, 2011, 11:45 PM   #90
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If I were you, I would have stopped the pump, pulled out the nozzle with my hand still ready to restart the flow, and then engaged him.

That's what I would like think I would have done. In the future you could always stash a hatchet in close proximity of the passenger side rear window. When you pull up to get gas just let down that window and volla.


But I live in a shall issue state.

Reminds me of something similar that happend to me some time back. I think I'll start a thread about it.
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Old March 29, 2011, 11:05 AM   #91
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Tough one

This thread is a tough one.

The described situation makes me think gun, and 911 in that order.

More gun laws just make it easier for criminals. Do you think that any gang-member pays any attention to them?

I'm sorry for Wolfeye. He's dreaming.
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Old March 30, 2011, 12:21 AM   #92
alabama
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Buy a crownvic police interceptor all white or black with a spot light and push bar. That will make people leave you alone. If you dont want a cop car just buy a scream mask or dress like jason and wear a hockey mask. People will think you are crazy and leave you alone.
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Old March 30, 2011, 09:26 AM   #93
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