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Old February 21, 2011, 08:41 PM   #51
threegun
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Threegun, I'll concede that "nice" might work better for someone my size that yours. But I didn't mean nice...
Gotcha.

Short story. I'm standing in my lawn trailer replacing string on my trimmer when a man walks up and asks if he could help me mow the grass. I explained to him (very nicely) that although I earn a living mowing grass this yard was in fact my own (it really was my yard) and I wasn't earning any money by mowing it. He continues to talk and I continue to string my weed whacker. I finish and listen for several minutes while baking in the hot Florida sun. Finally I said (again very nicely) sir I have to get to work now. He now begins to perform windmills and jumping jacks after removing his shirt. I open the rear compartment on my fanny pack exposing my Glock 20 but only to me (he has no idea I have a gun). I say I enjoyed the chat but gotta go now. He proceeds to spout racial slurs and explain how he was gonna harm me. At this point I'm ticked off and hollar for my wife. She pops her head out the door and I tell her in a very stern voice to call police before I end up having to shoot this idiot. The man walked away cussing.

I felt like my good nature made him sense weakness. Since then I am stern but not mean.
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Old February 21, 2011, 08:48 PM   #52
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Anyone out there have comments or suggestions? I don't like trusting to luck to save my butt.

Pump gas at High Noon, take a buddy, and only stop where there are at least 5 cars also getting gas. Wear a life alert hand on the button, or get your neighbor to pump gas for you....
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Old February 21, 2011, 08:51 PM   #53
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What I found interesting is the OP was unwilling to put a gun in his trunk because he could go to jail, but said he thought he needed to carry, even if it ment going to jail. I'm thinking the gun in the trunk is less noticable. Why fear having one hidden in the trunk when carrying one illegally would be ok ? I think filling your tank at lunch hour, or day off, beats this night fillup option. However if one wants to rationalize illegally carrying, then this script is as good as any.
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Old February 21, 2011, 10:39 PM   #54
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I'm 63, out of shape, and on blood thinners,
It doesn't matter whether you are armed or not, you need to get a cell phone tomorrow.
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Old February 21, 2011, 10:45 PM   #55
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If you can't carry an actual weapon a big ol' Mag-Lite next to your driver's seat can be quite handy.
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Old February 21, 2011, 11:11 PM   #56
Rufus T Firefly
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Yell or loudly say Stop! Stop! I am having a heart attack!

Yell! Call the Police! Call 911!.
If the situation was a coincidence he would probably call the Police, and most likely apologize for making you feel threatened. If not some witness might hear him or you might alert the attendant.

Worst comes to worst call 911 yourself and tell the officer you felt threatened by his presence. Staring at people can be considered stalking.

Even if you had a gun at that point you might be charged with "brandishig" and that can cause problems.

I am 57 and could use the threat of deadly force since I had a faulty heart valve. The law usually sides against the perp who is assumed to understand the risk of causing a crime against another. You would be exempt from lawsuits or such should you have.... "alarmed him or caused some, mental duress". I can't help laughing as I type that. A normal person would apologize to you. Someone meaning you harm will not.
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Old February 21, 2011, 11:16 PM   #57
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3gun.....

I know you have alot of post and are very cognizant of gun issues. I do want to point out where you messed up. If you shouted..."before I shoot this guy". You removed yourselve from the legal protection of being a reluctant participant.

It might have been all another witness heard. And you know how reliable witnesses are NOT reliable.
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Old February 21, 2011, 11:20 PM   #58
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Do some of you really think the guy deserved to be drenched with gasoline or pepper sprayed just because he was standing there? Do we know why he was standing where he was? Maybe he was trying to get into the light of the station's canopy because he was fearful of something as well. Maybe he felt more secure being around someone else.

We should be aware of what's going on around us, but we're not supposed to become the aggressor.
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Old February 21, 2011, 11:23 PM   #59
youngunz4life
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he was sizing you up for whatever reason (in my opinion). do what you got to do while keeping a close eye on him(not an engaging stare). leave after pumping gas. that is literally what I would do. you felt uncomfortable, so something was up(probably your intuition knew he was sizing you up for unknown reasons). guys do things like this on the subway. they want to bum change or whatever. the problem is that the perp is undecided on his sizing up. Engagement - good or bad - can lead to more, unwanted issues.

Now obviously he might just be a regular guy too. maybe he did break down and he was getting the courage to ask you to use your cellphone. I had to do that one time(not fun at all). mine died and I needed to call family. It was a unique, necessary situation. two people said no and the business owner allowed me to use the phone. I probably would've said no too. This was mid-day//sorry to go off subject partially. people understandably have issues not believing you completely when you want to use their phone.

I am not going to be rude or engage in other ways in the OP scenario. It is at a standstill and in my opinion you should just work thru it leaving it at that level. If he comes at you quick yes the game has changed. If he speaks to you then take it from there: just getting in car anyways so leave, answer and use your best judgement as its not at a standstill anymore. I know stories of girls disappearing forever in parking lots or mainly the ND college girl comes to mind. Her body was found in MN or ND one winter. You'd be surprised how the dark can collect in gas lots, parking lots, etc. the light accumulates in one spot and things happen quick(I heard the physics on it but am not good with science). this guy possibly wasn't alone. I had a girl try to sell me meat for 50bucks one time in a gas lot! no joke!!obvious drug addict but looked normal and said she needed money for her kids. ps-I live in the country and grew up in the suburbs!
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Old February 21, 2011, 11:35 PM   #60
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Don't say anything rude to anyone trying difuse a situation. You may create a problem. You may light someones short fuse or make criminal decide he doesn't like you and make him more likely to attack or to attack more ferociously than he would have.

It appears that you were either in a bad situation or there was absolutely no problem at all. I'm not so sure the guy was about to attack, but I wasn't there.

Anyway, you have described youself as basically defenseless. If that is the case you should make changing your routine your top priority. If you are indeed small out-of-shape and consider yourself old, I wouldn't recommend trying to thwart an attack with a baton, flashlight or knife. Give him what he wants and get out of the way.

Pump you gas during the daylight, buy pepperspray and buy a cell phone.
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Old February 21, 2011, 11:55 PM   #61
Rufus T Firefly
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Hispanic or any description is a description. Nothing more.

Perople scream profiling every chance they get.
The US Government asks for your Nationality! When the government stops asking me my origin, I will become liberally policically correct.

Race is not an issue. It is a description of the person in question. No more or less important than Jeans, Blue Shirt and driving a Chevy Malibu.

Stop the race issue. Every race commits crimes. It is a description that the LEOS use to get a grip on who they are looking for.
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Old February 22, 2011, 06:37 AM   #62
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I know you have alot of post and are very cognizant of gun issues. I do want to point out where you messed up. If you shouted..."before I shoot this guy". You removed yourselve from the legal protection of being a reluctant participant.

It might have been all another witness heard. And you know how reliable witnesses are NOT reliable.
Rufus, If you had seen the chiseled mass of man in front of me threatening me you wouldn't have worried about justification. That said you are correct in that I should have chosen a better group or words. Words that would help in court and not hurt. Honesty I was young dumb and angry. This happened close to twenty years ago. I had little carry and zero tactical experience. Plus I allowed anger to effect me. I was ticked off that this guy was using his size to try to intimidate me. Plus I was baking in the sun and getting ready to do a freebie mow on my own yard LOL.

If the situation happened today I would have ended it instantly and or called 911 myself (no cell phone for me back then).
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Old February 22, 2011, 06:40 AM   #63
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Do some of you really think the guy deserved to be drenched with gasoline or pepper sprayed just because he was standing there? Do we know why he was standing where he was? Maybe he was trying to get into the light of the station's canopy because he was fearful of something as well. Maybe he felt more secure being around someone else.

We should be aware of what's going on around us, but we're not supposed to become the aggressor.
Sport, I think they meant using the pump to spray gas IF the guy attacked.
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Old February 22, 2011, 07:38 AM   #64
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I hope that's what they meant, 'cause it's not what they said...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob.a
Options: Douse the guy with gas. But he never got close enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Towe
Actually you probably could have doused him with gas at that distance. Most pumps put out a pretty healthy stream.
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Old February 22, 2011, 09:17 AM   #65
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Bear repellent

This stuff will repell any variety of third world miscreant as well as a 1000 pound polar bear. It does the job with out using deadly force and totally avoids possible legal jeopardy that arises from its use.
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Old February 22, 2011, 09:58 AM   #66
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I don't think anybody meant douse him as a precautionary measure. I know I did not.
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Old February 22, 2011, 11:29 AM   #67
Shootin Chef
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I don't think anybody meant douse him as a precautionary measure. I know I did not.
I find it interesting this even has to be said.
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Old February 22, 2011, 12:08 PM   #68
threegun
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I find it interesting this even has to be said.
Me too.
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Old February 22, 2011, 12:15 PM   #69
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I find it interesting this even has to be said.
Sport apparently needed clarification.
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Old February 22, 2011, 12:27 PM   #70
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Right. I don't normally go around incinerating strangers. But certainly the pump provides an improvised weapon if it comes to that.

My ambivalence regarding a trunk gun or illegal carry boils down to this: a pistol in the trunk, loaded, is already illegal; if I need it and can't reach the trunk it's not doing me any good, so it makes better sense to carry on my person, if I'm to go that route at all.

As the guy was maneuvering around the vehicle, never closing but always in position to deny me access to the driver's door, and seemed to be trying to give the impression of just hanging around, my suspicions were quite high. There's nothing there to hang around for, unless he wanted to pick up a used car. If he was armed with a firearm, I was screwed; even a knife would have been bad news.

I'm not a scaredy cat; my sense that the situation was Not Right was strong, and I stand by it. I don't care what his genetic affiliating might be, I think I can judge a situation pretty well, and this one reeked of problem.

As I say, I lucked out. I will be taking stronger precautions in future. Bear spray might end up being something no vehicle should be without.
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Old February 22, 2011, 03:41 PM   #71
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Seems to me...

... that some of the folks saying the guy might just have been innocently standing around missed a couple of the OP's points:

1) The guy was in close proximity to the OP (10' or so) and nobody else was nearby; and

2) The guy was in a position that controlled access to the driver's door of the OP's car.

Those two factors would definitely draw my attention, and most likely raise my hackles.

And, as somebody else did notice, the OP stated the guy left his position and departed when a patrol cruiser rolled by.

While we don't know for sure, I'd call it 90% certain the guy was not up to anything good.

Then again, he may just have been a panhandler, who decided not to ply his trade in front of the police. Grey area between BG and nuisance. But a panhandler who's willing to block a person in before asking for a handout is not much different from a strong-arm robber.

I've found with panhandlers that what works best (for me) is being courteous but not friendly. I'm not overtly rude, but I'm not interested in their stories, and I have things to do.

But I'm decent sized, in decent shape, not that old, and live someplace where permits are shall-issue. I suspect I give off a vibe that tells those guys that there are probably easier marks elsewhere.
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Old February 22, 2011, 08:04 PM   #72
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Sport apparently needed clarification.
I didn't think either of the gentlemen had intended to douse the guy, but though that needed to be pointed out. We're not the only ones that read these forums and don't need folks thinking we're looking for opportunities to disable others.
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Old February 22, 2011, 11:50 PM   #73
Shootin Chef
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I didn't think either of the gentlemen had intended to douse the guy, but though that needed to be pointed out.
Why?
I've seen a lot of people jump to conclusions in this thread, as well as make assumptions and just go way far out there (such as the racism comments).

Why do we feel the need to call into question the moral fiber and decision making skills of our fellow members instead of giving them the support and productive advice you would expect to find in a group like this?
Why can we not give them the benefit of the doubt simply because they are part of this brotherhood, one that constantly comes under attack from outside sources and doesn't need internal ones fanning the flames?

Sport I apologize if it seems like I'm attacking you or pointing a finger at you, that's not the case at all, it just really seems that many people here want to pick apart the victim instead of empathizing and offering help that might otherwise not have been thought of.
The OP is clearly not trying to pick a fight, or improvise a flamethrower on the spot, or being a racist, or attempting to break the law, or pull a gun on a innocent bystander, or any of the other cockamamie "negative" connotations that have been inferred by some other posters.

He felt threatened and brought it to us, his brothers, to get our productive thoughts on the matter and how we can help him to avoid future issues of this nature. Don't we owe it to him to assist him to the best of our ability?

Just the way it's coming across to me is all,
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Old February 23, 2011, 12:30 AM   #74
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Post deleted by Sport45.

Carry on.
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Last edited by Sport45; February 23, 2011 at 12:44 AM.
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Old February 23, 2011, 12:41 PM   #75
mnhntr
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If you live in one of the communist states where you are unable to protect yourself with a firearm I would say to get a taser if legal or pepper spray. Also you should stay situationally aware which it sounds like you are, and maybe take a self defense class.
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