FN Browning 1922

Hardcase · February 18, 2011, 10:03 PM

I picked up a Browning 1922 this afternoon from my friendly neighborhood enabler. It seems like it's in pretty good shape and all the numbers match. The one thing that surprised me is that there are no German marks on it - I had thought that serials 25,000-60,000 or thereabouts were seized by the Nazis. Anyway, it's a nice little police or commercial pistol, I guess, and a nice companion to my Ortgies.

Winchester_73 · February 18, 2011, 10:22 PM

They're neat. I personally like the look of the M1910 better, but anything FN is good for the most part. Regarding waffenamts on these, I would think that anything made before the Belgium invasion may or may not have waffenamts since invariably some guns must have escaped them for their own use. Many of the waffenamt M1922s that I have seen also have brown checkered grips. I believe your grips to be earlier, probably because your gun is earlier, which also can help explain the lack of waffenamt.

**James K** · February 19, 2011, 12:25 AM

Serial numbering on the M1922 is chaotic. Regular series production started at 200,000, but many contract purchasers insisted on their own serial number range for inventory control. (The low number pistols seized by the Germans at the factory were from a Dutch contract.) There were also post-war guns made for the French and German police with low numbers.

Are there any other markings on the gun that would indicate contract production?

Jim

gyvel · February 19, 2011, 03:34 AM

It's my understanding that your gun in the 30,000 range is a post WWII Danish contract. Guns in that particular range sometimes also sport checkered wooden grips like those used on WWII guns. I own several examples and have seen them in the 20,000 to 40,000 SN range.

I believe that guns with only 16 slide serrations are post war, while WWII Nazi Occupation guns have 17 serrations and pre-war guns have 18. Another post war feature is the slide extension with no "scallop" where it meets the slide.

Hardcase · February 22, 2011, 12:06 AM

Spent the weekend in the frozen north of the Central Idaho Mountains where we were blissfully free of telephones and the Internet. Here is a closeup of the markings on the frame:

I tried to get a picture of the marks on the barrel, but I just couldn't get focused on it with my cheap camera. They are, though, pretty much the same as you see above the trigger with the addition of the Belgian proof symbol (the crown with the circled letters).

carguychris · February 22, 2011, 11:06 AM

FWIW those markings appear identical to markings I've seen on other commercial FN 1910 and 1922 pistols.

Hardcase · February 24, 2011, 11:18 AM

Just to let everybody know, the fellas over at luger.gunboards.com figured out that it's a 1946 model. The 6 in the square on the trigger guard is the clue. Apparently when FN started producing new post-war models, they restarted the serial numbers and created some sort of dating code. That the number 6 coincided with 1946 was coincidence. Subsequent numbers may not match the year.

Drachenstein · February 24, 2011, 08:36 PM

Love both of mine. Here's a treat for you,,,,,,,,, and it's factory;

My other is a complete Luftwaffe rig.

Hardcase · February 24, 2011, 10:19 PM

Gorgeous!

Bill DeShivs · February 24, 2011, 11:35 PM

While your nickeled 1922 is pretty, it's not factory plated.

darwins · February 25, 2011, 04:13 PM

gyvel · February 25, 2011, 04:23 PM

"Darwins," if I'm not mistaken, we met at a gun show in Phoenix some years back and discussed 1922's.

I, too have a French Navy piece with the peculiar finish, as well as several Serbian and Croatian pieces that I have decided to sell as of late. Also a Koninklijke Marichausee "M1925" Dutch pistol, a Greek Army, a horrible T.C. Subay that I have to keep in the garage at night so the howling doesn't keep me awake, and various other Nazi, Danish, Dutch, French Army, etc..

The one that I am particularly proud of is the Toulouse Police pistol as I understand that that particular contract was only about 200 or so pieces.

darwins · February 25, 2011, 05:14 PM

You have some nice pieces too. Some I've only heard of and never seen. They are a fun pistol to collect. I may be selling some of my pieces as well though as I consider other interests. Unfortunately, I don't think we have met. I've not been to any guns hows in Phoenix.

gyvel · February 25, 2011, 06:13 PM

OMG!! Is it possible that there are TWO Darwins interested in 1922's???

Luis · February 25, 2011, 09:40 PM

Look this link below :

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge...01922%20gb.htm

This is my pistol FN cal 7.65 mm

[IMG]http:

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[IMG]http:

[/IMG]

Luis

Drachenstein · February 26, 2011, 12:38 AM

Here's it's buddy;

Sorry Bill, I'm gonna have to disagree with you about the plating. It's a post War .380 and F&N did produce them. Another example is is located at

http://www.olarmyjoel.com/Virtual%20...ing%201922.htm

and I'll defer to By Col. W.R. Betz's article concerning 1922 deluxe models - not to be confused with the Renaissance model.

gyvel · February 26, 2011, 01:31 AM

Quote:

This is my pistol FN cal 7.65 mm

Luis, judging by the mark by the serial number, your gun appears to be a post WWII Berlin police issue.

Luis · February 27, 2011, 05:25 AM

[IMG]http:

[/IMG]

[IMG]http:

[/IMG]

Luis

gyvel · February 27, 2011, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Sorry Bill, I'm gonna have to disagree with you about the plating. It's a post War .380 and F&N did produce them. Another example is is located at

All factory plated 1922's I have ever seen have blued triggers and thumb safeties. Also, the "custom" FN factory grips in the photos in your link really appear to be Franzite knockoffs since, if you look closely, the molded checkering on them is not in a straight line.

Drachenstein · February 27, 2011, 04:38 PM

The only pictures I've been able to find of them, the trigger was silver as was the safety. You did cause me to go to the safe to look at the grips. They aren't pebbled and do make straight lines (poor photography on my part - angle), though they're not horn or ivory, and certainly are molded and not cut. It is however the spitting image of the one pictured here;
http://www.olarmyjoel.com/Virtual%20...ing%201922.htm
Though I would contend mine's in better shape. To be truthful, any picture of one, other that the one pictured in the link above, would be welcomed. The FN 1922 is wonderful shooter overlooked quite a bit in documentation or history. If anyone has Browning research material I would be willing to give the serial number to get a definative answer. The ol-timer I bought it from said he had bought it over 50 years ago and it just sat in his safe.

I guess my Lugers have spoiled me in so far as documentation, if there's any out there, or on line sources for the 1922, I sure would like to see them.

Bill DeShivs · February 27, 2011, 05:27 PM

Drachenstein-
I would love to be wrong.
Just because FN produced factory plated guns does not mean yours is one of them.
If you post clear closeups, any one of us can tell if the plating job is factory.
In the fuxxy pic you have provided, the plating appears to be a "bumper shop" job.
Also, Franzite stocks have ribs moulded in the hollow underside. Factory grips are solid.

darwins · February 27, 2011, 05:58 PM

FN, as a rule, did not nickel plate moving parts such as the safety and trigger. Here is an FN 1900 that I own. Notice the safety, trigger and a couple of screws are blued. Anthony Vanderlinden, a noted expert on FN Browning pistols, confirmed this FN 1900 is factory plated. Anthony is one of the few people FN has ever allowed access to their files. I have seen another pistol just like yours for sale at a gun show. I know from first hand experience that the seller was a snake oil salesman. When I asked Anthony about the pistol I saw that resembles yours, he told me that he has seen no evidence that FN ever produced any model 1922 pistols with a Nickel finish. He also stated the white plastic grip panels were aftermarket. I believe I saw the very same pistol for sale later in a gun shop in Pocatello, Idaho.

Drachenstein · February 27, 2011, 09:26 PM

@ Bill The plating is pretty good though it is beginning to show its age, it's crisp. I've done quite a bit of plating in my time as well, though most nickel as a pre for gold. The pictures still elude me as it is a very gloss shine - allot of reflection. I'm taking the pictures in the studio - daylight light lights.

The grips are marked FN-38 Browning, then a franzite logo. What are the postwar black grips made from? What markings do they have?

BTW, nice engraving, always love good work. A guy named Santi tried to teach me it until the #52 graver went into that space between the thumb and forefinger. I stick to wax, it carves easier.

@ Darwin You have a SME that says they didn't, I have one that says they did and shows a picture of it. Your SME states he has seen no evidence that they nickel plated any 1922, my responce is; Has he looked? I was hoping somebody that has researched this may have had a definative answer, or be a member of Browning Collectors Association where they might be able to find out. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is post war, therefore records do exist. Maybe the Lugers have spoiled me with the amount of information available.

Frank DeRosa
www.dragonsjewels.com

Bill DeShivs · February 27, 2011, 11:03 PM

Well, we know that Franzite didn't make grips for FN or Browning.
I'll try to enlarge and sharpen your pictures and look at them. It's not so much the plating, but the metal finish before plating.

Bill DeShivs · February 27, 2011, 11:13 PM

Your pictures are still too bad to say for sure. Try a macro camera setting, and let the gun fill the entire viewfinder.
So far, it looks as if sharp edges were rolled when polishing, and the plating was done over some pitting or surface imperfections. FN would not have done this.

February 18, 2011, 10:03 PM	#1
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,880	FN Browning 1922 I picked up a Browning 1922 this afternoon from my friendly neighborhood enabler. It seems like it's in pretty good shape and all the numbers match. The one thing that surprised me is that there are no German marks on it - I had thought that serials 25,000-60,000 or thereabouts were seized by the Nazis. Anyway, it's a nice little police or commercial pistol, I guess, and a nice companion to my Ortgies. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

February 18, 2011, 10:22 PM	#2
Winchester_73 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 2,602	They're neat. I personally like the look of the M1910 better, but anything FN is good for the most part. Regarding waffenamts on these, I would think that anything made before the Belgium invasion may or may not have waffenamts since invariably some guns must have escaped them for their own use. Many of the waffenamt M1922s that I have seen also have brown checkered grips. I believe your grips to be earlier, probably because your gun is earlier, which also can help explain the lack of waffenamt. __________________ Winchester 73, the TFL user that won the west

February 19, 2011, 12:25 AM	#3
James K Staff Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 16,421	Serial numbering on the M1922 is chaotic. Regular series production started at 200,000, but many contract purchasers insisted on their own serial number range for inventory control. (The low number pistols seized by the Germans at the factory were from a Dutch contract.) There were also post-war guns made for the French and German police with low numbers. Are there any other markings on the gun that would indicate contract production? Jim __________________ Jim K

February 22, 2011, 11:06 AM	#6
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 4,628	FWIW those markings appear identical to markings I've seen on other commercial FN 1910 and 1922 pistols. __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

February 24, 2011, 11:18 AM	#7
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,880	Just to let everybody know, the fellas over at luger.gunboards.com figured out that it's a 1946 model. The 6 in the square on the trigger guard is the clue. Apparently when FN started producing new post-war models, they restarted the serial numbers and created some sort of dating code. That the number 6 coincided with 1946 was coincidence. Subsequent numbers may not match the year. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

February 19, 2011, 03:34 AM	#4
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 3,458	It's my understanding that your gun in the 30,000 range is a post WWII Danish contract. Guns in that particular range sometimes also sport checkered wooden grips like those used on WWII guns. I own several examples and have seen them in the 20,000 to 40,000 SN range. I believe that guns with only 16 slide serrations are post war, while WWII Nazi Occupation guns have 17 serrations and pre-war guns have 18. Another post war feature is the slide extension with no "scallop" where it meets the slide.

February 22, 2011, 12:06 AM	#5
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,880	Spent the weekend in the frozen north of the Central Idaho Mountains where we were blissfully free of telephones and the Internet. Here is a closeup of the markings on the frame: I tried to get a picture of the marks on the barrel, but I just couldn't get focused on it with my cheap camera. They are, though, pretty much the same as you see above the trigger with the addition of the Belgian proof symbol (the crown with the circled letters). __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

February 24, 2011, 08:36 PM	#8
Drachenstein Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 224	Love both of mine. Here's a treat for you,,,,,,,,, and it's factory; My other is a complete Luftwaffe rig.

February 24, 2011, 10:19 PM	#9
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,880	Gorgeous! __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

February 24, 2011, 11:35 PM	#10
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 6,457	While your nickeled 1922 is pretty, it's not factory plated. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

February 25, 2011, 04:13 PM	#11
darwins Member Join Date: September 18, 2008 Posts: 97	FN 1922 collection For those who appreciate FN 1922 pistols, here is my collection of pre-war or wartime pistols: Dutch, complete rig all pictured items have stamped matching numbers: https://picasaweb.google.com/dhsass/...eat=directlink Turkish https://picasaweb.google.com/dhsass/...eat=directlink Waffenamt marked WaA613 https://picasaweb.google.com/dhsass/...eat=directlink Greek https://picasaweb.google.com/dhsass/...eat=directlink French Navy https://picasaweb.google.com/dhsass/...eat=directlink Shangai police https://picasaweb.google.com/dhsass/...eat=directlink Serbian https://picasaweb.google.com/dhsass/...eat=directlink Waffenamt marked, WaA140 later model https://picasaweb.google.com/dhsass/...eat=directlink Waffenamt marked, WaA140 not-as-late model, complete rig https://picasaweb.google.com/dhsass/...eat=directlink And a few other FN pistols: FN 1900, Factory nickel https://picasaweb.google.com/dhsass/...eat=directlink FN 1906 vest pocket, Imperial Russian https://picasaweb.google.com/dhsass/...eat=directlink FN 1903, Swedish https://picasaweb.google.com/dhsass/...eat=directlink FN High power, WaA140, complete rig https://picasaweb.google.com/dhsass/...eat=directlink FN 1910, with capture papers https://picasaweb.google.com/dhsass/...eat=directlink

February 25, 2011, 04:23 PM	#12
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 3,458	"Darwins," if I'm not mistaken, we met at a gun show in Phoenix some years back and discussed 1922's. I, too have a French Navy piece with the peculiar finish, as well as several Serbian and Croatian pieces that I have decided to sell as of late. Also a Koninklijke Marichausee "M1925" Dutch pistol, a Greek Army, a horrible T.C. Subay that I have to keep in the garage at night so the howling doesn't keep me awake, and various other Nazi, Danish, Dutch, French Army, etc.. The one that I am particularly proud of is the Toulouse Police pistol as I understand that that particular contract was only about 200 or so pieces.

February 25, 2011, 05:14 PM	#13
darwins Member Join Date: September 18, 2008 Posts: 97	You have some nice pieces too. Some I've only heard of and never seen. They are a fun pistol to collect. I may be selling some of my pieces as well though as I consider other interests. Unfortunately, I don't think we have met. I've not been to any guns hows in Phoenix.

February 25, 2011, 06:13 PM	#14
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 3,458	OMG!! Is it possible that there are TWO Darwins interested in 1922's???

February 25, 2011, 09:40 PM	#15
Luis Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2007 Location: Dollard des Ormeaux ,Qc,Canada Posts: 128	Look this link below : http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge...01922%20gb.htm This is my pistol FN cal 7.65 mm [IMG]http:[/IMG] [IMG]http:[/IMG] Luis

February 26, 2011, 12:38 AM	#16
Drachenstein Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 224	Here's it's buddy; Sorry Bill, I'm gonna have to disagree with you about the plating. It's a post War .380 and F&N did produce them. Another example is is located at http://www.olarmyjoel.com/Virtual%20...ing%201922.htm and I'll defer to By Col. W.R. Betz's article concerning 1922 deluxe models - not to be confused with the Renaissance model. Last edited by Drachenstein; February 26, 2011 at 02:14 AM.

February 27, 2011, 05:25 AM	#18
Luis Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2007 Location: Dollard des Ormeaux ,Qc,Canada Posts: 128	Close-up Pictures [IMG]http:[/IMG] [IMG]http:[/IMG] Luis

February 27, 2011, 04:38 PM	#20
Drachenstein Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 224	The only pictures I've been able to find of them, the trigger was silver as was the safety. You did cause me to go to the safe to look at the grips. They aren't pebbled and do make straight lines (poor photography on my part - angle), though they're not horn or ivory, and certainly are molded and not cut. It is however the spitting image of the one pictured here; http://www.olarmyjoel.com/Virtual%20...ing%201922.htm Though I would contend mine's in better shape. To be truthful, any picture of one, other that the one pictured in the link above, would be welcomed. The FN 1922 is wonderful shooter overlooked quite a bit in documentation or history. If anyone has Browning research material I would be willing to give the serial number to get a definative answer. The ol-timer I bought it from said he had bought it over 50 years ago and it just sat in his safe. I guess my Lugers have spoiled me in so far as documentation, if there's any out there, or on line sources for the 1922, I sure would like to see them.

February 27, 2011, 05:27 PM	#21
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 6,457	Drachenstein- I would love to be wrong. Just because FN produced factory plated guns does not mean yours is one of them. If you post clear closeups, any one of us can tell if the plating job is factory. In the fuxxy pic you have provided, the plating appears to be a "bumper shop" job. Also, Franzite stocks have ribs moulded in the hollow underside. Factory grips are solid. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

February 27, 2011, 05:58 PM	#22
darwins Member Join Date: September 18, 2008 Posts: 97	FN, as a rule, did not nickel plate moving parts such as the safety and trigger. Here is an FN 1900 that I own. Notice the safety, trigger and a couple of screws are blued. Anthony Vanderlinden, a noted expert on FN Browning pistols, confirmed this FN 1900 is factory plated. Anthony is one of the few people FN has ever allowed access to their files. I have seen another pistol just like yours for sale at a gun show. I know from first hand experience that the seller was a snake oil salesman. When I asked Anthony about the pistol I saw that resembles yours, he told me that he has seen no evidence that FN ever produced any model 1922 pistols with a Nickel finish. He also stated the white plastic grip panels were aftermarket. I believe I saw the very same pistol for sale later in a gun shop in Pocatello, Idaho.

February 27, 2011, 09:26 PM	#23
Drachenstein Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: Elizabethtown, KY Posts: 224	@ Bill The plating is pretty good though it is beginning to show its age, it's crisp. I've done quite a bit of plating in my time as well, though most nickel as a pre for gold. The pictures still elude me as it is a very gloss shine - allot of reflection. I'm taking the pictures in the studio - daylight light lights. The grips are marked FN-38 Browning, then a franzite logo. What are the postwar black grips made from? What markings do they have? BTW, nice engraving, always love good work. A guy named Santi tried to teach me it until the #52 graver went into that space between the thumb and forefinger. I stick to wax, it carves easier. @ Darwin You have a SME that says they didn't, I have one that says they did and shows a picture of it. Your SME states he has seen no evidence that they nickel plated any 1922, my responce is; Has he looked? I was hoping somebody that has researched this may have had a definative answer, or be a member of Browning Collectors Association where they might be able to find out. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is post war, therefore records do exist. Maybe the Lugers have spoiled me with the amount of information available. Frank DeRosa www.dragonsjewels.com Last edited by Drachenstein; February 27, 2011 at 09:56 PM.

February 27, 2011, 11:03 PM	#24
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 6,457	Well, we know that Franzite didn't make grips for FN or Browning. I'll try to enlarge and sharpen your pictures and look at them. It's not so much the plating, but the metal finish before plating. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

February 27, 2011, 11:13 PM	#25
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 6,457	Your pictures are still too bad to say for sure. Try a macro camera setting, and let the gun fill the entire viewfinder. So far, it looks as if sharp edges were rolled when polishing, and the plating was done over some pitting or surface imperfections. FN would not have done this. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com Last edited by Bill DeShivs; February 27, 2011 at 11:21 PM.