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Old February 17, 2011, 10:59 PM   #1
aTm papi
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home defense ammo (bird shot)

i know this subject has been probably debated to death, but i found this video on the Outdoor Channel.

http://www.outdoorchannel.com/Shows/...sFSRbAcZjIb5Sx
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Old February 17, 2011, 11:43 PM   #2
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i have seen this video before, in a similar thread. i think it's cool video, that touches on some good points. i think a lot of people will be surprised at the results of the .223. but this video still doesn't convince me to put birdshot in my shotgun. i think at the end of the video he sums it perfectly. you need to understand what your choice of ammo will do if you miss your intended target.
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Old February 18, 2011, 12:21 AM   #3
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I will watch the video later but here is what Box O Truth did with a shotgun and two types of shot. Good demonstration of penetration.
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Old February 18, 2011, 12:25 AM   #4
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I keep birdshot in my shotgun just because it's all I have on hand, I have thought about getting 00 buck but now I am kind of re-considering. I am still pretty sure that my Remington 870 magnum express is going to put a badguy down for the count even with target loads. I sure as hell don't want to be on the other end of that thing.
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Old February 18, 2011, 11:02 PM   #5
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. From what I have seen birdshot do at the range of ten yards and less, I have zero doubt that it would be extremely effective on a person at in-house distances. The bigger the shot, the better. Some #2 turkey loads would be downright nasty, but even #8 would be pretty messy.

Do I carry birdshot in my shotgun for defense? No. But it would do the trick at very short distances. As distance from the target increases, you start asking for trouble though. Buckshot is obviously better.
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Old February 18, 2011, 11:30 PM   #6
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very good video

home defense ammo (bird shot)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i know this subject has been probably debated to death, but i found this video on the Outdoor Channel.

http://www.outdoorchannel.com/Shows/...sFSRbAcZjIb5Sx
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Old February 18, 2011, 11:31 PM   #7
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I'm not so sure, especially in winter when a thick leather coat may be worn with more layers under. It won't bounce off, but it may do shockingly little. If you don't want 00 buck pellets, at least move up to a goose load.

Bird shot is a great way to emasculate a shotgun. In my opinion.
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Old February 19, 2011, 12:35 AM   #8
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If birdshot were for self defense they would of called it manshot.
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Old February 19, 2011, 12:10 PM   #9
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Having once discharged a 12ga shotgun, loaded with #6 birdshot, inside my house - I can give direct observation that it worked perfectly.

While most of the errant pellets did penetrate two interior plaster/wood lath partition walls, they ended up lodged inside an exterior wall w/o exiting my house.

.
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Old February 19, 2011, 08:07 PM   #10
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There is no question you can kill someone with birdshot. How effectively can you kill someone with birdshot though? Can you reliably put lead into vital organs? There is no question you can with buckshot. I have 00 buck loaded in my 870.
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Old February 19, 2011, 08:30 PM   #11
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I still wouldn't risk it, I only have .45 avoid carry guns, and my HD shotgun is loaded with two shots #4 buck, and seven 00 buck.

When it comes to my families safety, there is no such thing as overkill, there is only one way in or out of my house, unless they use a ladder, and even if my shot missed and over penetrates it wouldn't be a danger to any of my neighbours.
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Old February 19, 2011, 08:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
If birdshot were for self defense they would of called it manshot.
Well said.

Why would anyone assume an 8 foot shot? What happens if the BG with the gun is down the hall 30 or more feet. I doubt birdshot would be very effective at that range.

If you are that concerned with hurting an innocent victim, don't go from buckshot to birdshot. Go to high power 4 shot.
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Old February 19, 2011, 08:44 PM   #13
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3" 15 pellet 00 buck. I'll take the extra recoil to get the extra 6 pellets for my family's safety. My house can have the heavier ammo too(unlike an apt as much for example). I hope to not shoot someone with the shotgun, but I assure you I'll be using deadly force if it ever comes to that.
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Old February 19, 2011, 11:23 PM   #14
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...same... 3" Mag 00. I take em to the range and blast regardless of how much it kicks.
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Old February 19, 2011, 11:36 PM   #15
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You guys with the 3" mag 00 loads.....

Try something. Have someone time you while you fire off a three shot series of your barnburners.

Then, do the same series using some 8 pellet R/R loads.

Note the time difference.

Those howitzer loads will certainly put a hurting, but so will the light loads and do so with less trauma in back and much faster non first hits.

Thanks.....
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Old February 19, 2011, 11:55 PM   #16
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pour some wax in that bird shot............takes on a whole new meaning. Hits as a solid mass.
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Old February 20, 2011, 01:13 AM   #17
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Quote:
Hits as a solid mass
you mean kinda like a slug.
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Old February 20, 2011, 01:34 AM   #18
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"pour some wax in that bird shot............takes on a whole new meaning. Hits as a solid mass."

I am not to sure this is a safe thing to do. It increases the weight of the payload along with the chamber pressure.
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Old February 20, 2011, 01:42 AM   #19
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There's all kinds of legal implications to non-lethally assaulting them with a firearm, even if its 100% by the book self defense.

Shoot to kill, that means don't shoot bird shot.
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Old February 20, 2011, 03:21 AM   #20
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I dont know why you would want to put wax in a birdshot load as at close range it going to act like a slug anyways. As for the box o truth vid all they proved there is bird shot sucks at non close range, we already know that.
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Old February 20, 2011, 11:13 AM   #21
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Quote:
You guys with the 3" mag 00 loads.....

Try something. Have someone time you while you fire off a three shot series of your barnburners.

Then, do the same series using some 8 pellet R/R loads.

Note the time difference.

Those howitzer loads will certainly put a hurting, but so will the light loads and do so with less trauma in back and much faster non first hits.

Thanks.....
I don't doubt you Dave, and I think I know what you were getting at. After about 7 shots(give or take one round), I start noticing the difference. The 3" loads can slow you down a bit, but I wouldn't be affected until firing multiple, multiple rounds off in succession.
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Old February 20, 2011, 11:26 AM   #22
Dave McC
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...."Until firing off multiple, multiple rounds in succession"....

Like when repelling multiple home invaders?

Continued life at times is a matter of not inches and seconds, but fractions of those. Using ammo that takes longer to re-acquire sights and recover rather than effective ammo of less Sturm Und Drang is counter productive.

8 pellet 00 loads at 1200 FPS or less are NOT Nerf shells.....
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Old February 20, 2011, 01:06 PM   #23
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yes dave but my mossberg 500 carries 7 in the tube and one in the chamber. I'm good until about 6 shots / I know this because on multiple occasions I have tried to fire 16shots in succession(reloading the 2nd 8 shells as quick as possible). At about 6 or 7 I am catching myself due to recoil, breathing for an extra second, or whatever. my adrenaline would easily get me thru the 8shots and if thats not enough then I'll have to hope the handgun works better. You know it goes both ways: the 6 (or 7 in your case) extra pellets might be the difference in my favor.
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Old February 20, 2011, 06:26 PM   #24
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It's in the name BIRD shot
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Old February 21, 2011, 12:37 AM   #25
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I'm not worried about being attacked by methhead parrots.
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