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Old May 4, 2012, 11:28 AM   #2151
pnac
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Guns in Murder of Mexican Lawyer Traced Back to U.S. Operation Fast & Furious

http://www.hispanicallyspeakingnews....furious/15542/
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Old May 4, 2012, 01:41 PM   #2152
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^ it bugs me when Calderone calls for stricter gun control. A huge part of the cartels' access to weaponry in Mexico is the State Department's Direct commercial sales program and his own corrupt military. Another huge part of the problem is BATFE running guns to the cartels. Fast & Furious, as bad as it is, is only one operation of many that funneled guns to the Mexican drug cartels.
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Old May 8, 2012, 05:44 PM   #2153
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I like this interview from Greta Van Susteren with Dan Burton on Fox.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...sponse-cannot/

The more I read about the preparation of the contempt order, the more I believe it's serious.

I don't think Issa and Grassley can be characterized as "attack chihuahuas" any longer.
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Old May 8, 2012, 06:33 PM   #2154
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I like Issa's diligence.

I don't like Boehner and Cantor's reticence.

From what I read in that link, Issa had to prepare the document for Boehner and Cantor to even consider pressing forward. The contempt citation is hardly a done deal.
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Old May 8, 2012, 07:18 PM   #2155
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I don't like Boehner and Cantor's reticence.
No, but I can understand it. This whole thing is wrapped up in politics.

Opponents are trying to paint it as political brinksmanship, and to some extent, it is. Tearing down the Attorney General right before a pivotal election would be a win for one side, but if they fail, they could be perceived as bluffing.

For Issa, I've little doubt this is about justice. For Cantor and Boehner, it is as well, but that's not their only concern. If they can get the votes for a subpoena, there's no guarantee Holder will comply. Then what? He gets arrested and dragged before Congress. Do they have the votes to make incarceration stick? Doubtful.

Things get dragged out, and the next thing we know, it's November, and the whole thing is off the radar.

It's disgusting, but that's the way it is.
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Old May 8, 2012, 08:04 PM   #2156
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Why would it be off the radar in November, because the biased media won't publish the news concerning the contempt proceedings?

Fox will run stories on it, and probably CNN will occasionally.

I would think it would be potentially a powerfull political weapon during an election.

I don't want this to be politicized, I don't want it to be used to oust an incumbent or elect any particular party or person. I just want the American people to know what really happened and hopefully steps put in place to prevent government agencies from being used against the American people in the future.
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Old May 8, 2012, 08:21 PM   #2157
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Its been my experience that usually you dont bring out your opponents dirty laundry when you have plenty of your own dirty laundry in the same machine... Who knows how many programs and policies that were of questionable legality may have been done at the ATF over a number of administrations.....
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Old May 9, 2012, 06:23 AM   #2158
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http://dailycaller.com/2012/05/08/de...ious-subpoena/

Interesting.

Indiana Dem Rep Joe Donnelly has taken position to join Issa

If you read the article you will see this has some interesting political implications.

While I think it is good to be informed of the political part(Donnelly will be running against Richard Mourdock for US Senate),I suspect the mods will prefer we not discuss that here.

Mods,if that says too much,feel free to edit my post.
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Old May 9, 2012, 07:48 AM   #2159
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Quote:
Who knows how many programs and policies that were of questionable legality may have been done at the ATF over a number of administrations.....
Bingo!!!

The BATFE is run by career bureaucrats who give the agency its continuity and direction. Senior bureaucrats in the BATFE devise various and sundry plans, wait until the political climate is right and then sell those plans to their political appointee bosses: Then they strike.

Case in point: Operation Fast and Furious originated with the career bureaucrats in the Phoenix office of the BATFE.
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Old May 9, 2012, 11:05 AM   #2160
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Quote:
Why would it be off the radar in November, because the biased media won't publish the news concerning the contempt proceedings?
The media might not be inclined to cover it if the administration addressed it in a low-key manner as some sort of arcane legal issue. But the administration has tried to spin the entire F&F investigation as politically motivated; pursuing that stance would require the media to carry that message. A story about the Congress against the administration can be easily portrayed as political; the federal courts against the administration would be harder to sell as political.
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Old May 9, 2012, 09:50 PM   #2161
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In post 2155, Tom Servo offered:

Things get dragged out, and the next thing we know, it's November, and the whole thing is off the radar.

Unfortunately, but all to likely, that is pretty much the way the thingh will go, especially since, for the mos part, media, the vaunted Free Press, has opted to pretty much ignore tyhe problems of/with Operaatiomn Fast & Furious in particular, not to merntion the antics of the "ATF" in general.

Looking at other posts, this entire sad state of affairs gets more and more interesting, as with reference to the actions of the "ATF", which have been problematic, under administrations both Republican and Democratic since enactment of GCA '68.

Last edited by alan; May 9, 2012 at 10:01 PM.
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Old May 10, 2012, 06:48 AM   #2162
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Showbiz

Quote:
House Republicans on Wednesday presented an amendment to a Department of Justice spending bill that would prevent Justice from using taxpayer funds to lie to Congress.

...

One Democrat, Rep. Chaka Fattah (D-Pa.), said many believe Holder is "one of the best that's ever served in this position," and said he has punished those involved. But Republicans said there is no evidence that anyone has been punished or fired for Fast and Furious.


...

On Tuesday night, the House voted to strip $1 million in funding from Justice in response to the Fast and Furious scandal.
1. We don't need another law.

2. No one has been punished, unless you count the whistleblowers.

3. They knocked a million off the twentysomething billion the DOJ spends? That'll solve the whole thing! Why didn't they think to do that before???
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Old May 10, 2012, 06:16 PM   #2163
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publius42 provided the following quote:
Showbiz [thehill.com]


Quote:
House Republicans on Wednesday presented an amendment to a Department of Justice spending bill that would prevent Justice from using taxpayer funds to lie to Congress.

Sounds absolutely wonderful, but seems to leave open the following question. How in blazes would this proposal, if enacted, ever be made to actually work?
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Old May 10, 2012, 08:15 PM   #2164
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This should make everything all better.

Quote:
President Barack Obama maintains silence on the Brian A. Terry Memorial Act that passed the Democratic-controlled Senate unanimously on Tuesday evening. The Republican-controlled House passed it unanimously in December.

...

It’s also unclear whether Obama will do a public signing ceremony for the act, assuming he chooses to sign it.

...

The act, assuming Obama now signs it, would rename the U.S. Border Patrol station in Bisbee, Arizona to honor Terry’s memory.
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Old May 10, 2012, 08:41 PM   #2165
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Quote:
Sounds absolutely wonderful, but seems to leave open the following question. How in blazes would this proposal, if enacted, ever be made to actually work?
The amendment may be less of a practical nature than of a symbolic one. As Representative Chaffetz stated - "failure to comply with the Fast and Furious congressional subpoena is anything but a partisan political fight" but rather "an issue of separation of powers between the legislative and executive branches."

142 of 183 Democrats agreed that the executive branch cannot lie to, ignore, or stonewall the legislative branch.
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Old May 10, 2012, 09:13 PM   #2166
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Yep. It passed 381 to 41. There's more commentary at the Daily Caller.

It can't really be branded as partisan politics any more. Now let's see if the issue grows teeth.
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Old May 11, 2012, 10:45 AM   #2167
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Tom Servo wrote:

Yep. It passed 381 to 41. There's more commentary at the Daily Caller [dailycaller.com] .

It can't really be branded as partisan politics any more. Now let's see if the issue grows teeth.
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Re "the issue growing teeth", I certainly hope that it does, a mouthful of sharp teeth, along with the jaw muscles necessary for biting and chewing.

Additionally. Rep. Elijah Cummings, who appears to be a DOJ/ATF "water carrier" has been mentioned a couple of times, speaking in defense of DOJ, how long has the man been in The House, and what, if anything has he had to say of the very questionable antics of the ATF/BATFE in the past?
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Old May 11, 2012, 10:59 AM   #2168
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When I've heard Cummings speak at the hearings his comments / questions fall into two basic categories:

1) Isn't DOJ doing a wonderful job? And here is proof...

2) Isn't the real problem lax gun control laws?

And occasionally he objects to what others on the committee say - he'll bring up a point of order or something but other than that he's a broken record:

Isn't DOJ doing a wonderful job? Isn't the real problem lax gun control laws? Isn't DOJ doing a wonderful job? Isn't the real problem lax gun control laws? Isn't DOJ doing a wonderful job? Isn't the real problem lax gun control laws? Isn't DOJ doing a wonderful job? Isn't the real problem lax gun control laws?
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Old May 11, 2012, 02:41 PM   #2169
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Quote:
Isn't DOJ doing a wonderful job? Isn't the real problem lax gun control laws?
And you can tell he is lying because his lips are moving.
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Old May 24, 2012, 09:36 AM   #2170
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PJ Media apparently has information that DOJ has been coordinating with some Soros-run non-profits to spin the press on Fast and Furious and has filed a FOIA act request for the information. Despite the fact that the departments were clearly listed on the request, DOJ sent the FOIA request to a department NOT listed who responded that there are no such documents concerning Fast & Furious in the Civil Rights Division of the DOJ.

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/05/24...alment-at-doj/
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Old May 24, 2012, 12:17 PM   #2171
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PJ Media is right up there with Prison Planet when it comes to factual information.
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Old May 24, 2012, 12:33 PM   #2172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thallub
PJ Media is right up there with Prison Planet when it comes to factual information.
Are you confusing PJ Media with some other organization or do you have some examples of where they put out bad information? They've had really good coverage of Fast and Furious, so if they aren't a reliable source of information, I'd like to know about it.
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Old May 24, 2012, 12:55 PM   #2173
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if they aren't a reliable source of information, I'd like to know about it.
While they are biased (and fairly up-front about it), what news resource isn't? The information age has multiplied the number of venues for information exponentially, but it also forces us to be more skeptical.

That said, they seem to be fairly conscientious. I don't recall ever seeing them run bogus or exaggerated scare stories about Rex 84 or the like.
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Old May 25, 2012, 11:03 AM   #2174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thallub
PJ Media is right up there with Prison Planet when it comes to factual information.
I don't know what others are reacting to in the PJMedia story, but I did not like the way DOJ tried to duck a FOIA request. That is documented by links to the source documents regarding the FOIA request.
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Old June 5, 2012, 04:47 PM   #2175
Bartholomew Roberts
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New information on Fast & Furious:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...officials-had/

Rep. Issa's staffers have been able to review some of the wiretap applications concerning Fast & Furious

"He said six applications for wiretaps obtained by the committee, which have been sealed by a federal judge, detail specific actions taken by agents in Fast and Furious, including “conscious decisions not to interdict weapons that agents knew were illegally purchased by smugglers taking weapons to Mexico.” Mr. Issa said the applications were approved by senior Justice Department officials in March, April, May, June and July of 2010."

Apparently Lanny Breuer signed off on all of them.

These are some of the same documents that had been sought in the subpoena and some of the same documents that Holder had been withholding from the committee. Not sure yet how Issa got his hands on these six applications; but a big development.

CBS News has a story on it as well that doesn't explain the origin of the applications; but apparently Issa has sent Holder a letter saying he has seen the applications and that DOJ jerking him around must stop. The applications are under seal currently, so no public release.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...d-by-congress/

6-page letter that Issa sent to Holder: http://oversight.house.gov/wp-conten...iretap-App.pdf

Also, according to this interview with Rep. Chaffetz, it appears House Speaker John Boehner sent Eric Holder his own letter asking some very basic questions and giving him a deadline of Memorial Day to respond. DOJ apparently did not even bother answering the questions Boehner sent. Chaffetz speculates that this will embarrass Boehner into pushing forward with contempt. VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLyQnVYnwUY)

And for you CSPAN fans, it appears that Eric Holder will testifying before the House Judiciary Committee (not the Oversight Committee) this Thursday:

Thursday, June 7
DOJ Oversight: The House Judiciary Committee will hold a Department of Justice oversight hearing. Attorney General Eric Holder will testify.
( I don't know if there is a set topic.)
ETA:
Full Committee
9:30 a.m. in the 2141 Rayburn House Office Building

Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; June 5, 2012 at 05:21 PM.
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