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Old March 27, 2012, 09:03 AM   #2101
C0untZer0
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Internal BATFE memo shows rank and file don't trust the bureau's leadership.

I think this speaks to the issue of not being able to contain leaks:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/26...t-trust-brass/

I also think that this in itself is an idictment of Dennis Burke, Bill Newell, Lanny Breuer, Eric Holder, and those people in BATFE who acquiesced to allowing the bureau to be used to implement their gun running scheme.
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Old March 27, 2012, 10:53 AM   #2102
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Let me try this again, apparently the way I worded it before was too political
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The Republic of Mexico could bring charges and try him in absentia; because there is no was he would show up for a trial.
Mexico is a member of Interpol and could issue international arrest warrants. USA probably wouldn't extradite, but it would still make things very interesting. (I wonder if there's a bounty on international fugitives?)
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Old March 29, 2012, 12:06 AM   #2103
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Fox news is reporting that Kevin O' Reilley, Former NSC Staffer who recieved copies of the Phoenix Batf SAC weekly updates on F&F, has agreed to testify telephonically. The agreement is conditioned upon the White House agreeing to allow the testimony.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...t-and-furious/

O'Reilley is currently working for the State Department in Iraq. His reassignment is reported to have occurred suddenly just prior to supenas being served.
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Old March 29, 2012, 01:40 PM   #2104
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Keep the Fire Burning

I have lost count of the number of people i have "clued in" to this outrageous abuse of federal powers. It is shocking how little mainstream media coverage this has obtained. I have written my Rep and Senators repeatedly, urging them to support efforts to uncover the truth. However, being from a decidedly blue state, i am afraid my concerns fall on deaf ears. The BS replies i receive are stock "thank you for sharing your concerns" type non-answers.

One of my senators is a former state AG. He was known as a "hawk", sticking his nose into (and committing state resources to) dozens of high-profile cases involving anti-trust issues, but i can't seem to ignite a single spark of interest in this matter. His disinterest is deplorable, all the more because it belies his past aggressiveness and clearly shows his "party line" support.

Regardless of political affiliation or voting habits, this is a case of government agencies breaking Federal law, encouraging/coercing citizens to break laws, and it has resulted (and will continue to result) in numerous violent deaths. Keep the fire burning! Write your elected officials! Tell them how you feel! The truth needs to come out and it seems clear that will only happen if the citizens of this country continue to demand it.
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Old March 29, 2012, 11:51 PM   #2105
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ltc444 wrote:

Fox news is reporting that Kevin O' Reilley, Former NSC Staffer who recieved copies of the Phoenix Batf SAC weekly updates on F&F, has agreed to testify telephonically. The agreement is conditioned upon the White House agreeing to allow the testimony.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...t-and-furious/

O'Reilley is currently working for the State Department in Iraq. His reassignment is reported to have occurred suddenly just prior to supenas being served.
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_________________________________________-

On historical note, Mr. O'Reilley's reassignment sounds suspiciously like then NYC Mayor William O'Dwyer being rushed off to Mexico, as the then newly appointed U.S. Ambassador.
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Old March 29, 2012, 11:58 PM   #2106
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Daugherty16 wrote, among other comments:

Regardless of political affiliation or voting habits, this is a case of government agencies breaking Federal law, encouraging/coercing citizens to break laws, and it has resulted (and will continue to result) in numerous violent deaths.
________________________________________________________________

Reads like about the best description of Operation Fast and Furious that I've to date come on.
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Old April 2, 2012, 03:48 PM   #2107
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The video is gone from the above link concerning Kevin O' Reilley, Former NSC Staffer. Was this the video ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQl5U...1&feature=plcp

The reporter gets to the gist of it - really zeroing in on Kevin O' Reilley now, beleiving that he may have talked to President Barack Obama about Fast & Furious.

Congressman Darrell Issa acknowledges that privledged communications might be involved.

But I beleive that what Issa could be aiming for here is to force the president to invoke executive privledge.
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Old April 2, 2012, 04:40 PM   #2108
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But I beleive that what Issa could be aiming for here is to force the president to invoke executive privledge.
That might be a very bad move for the administration. The Supreme Court's views on the nature and scope of executive privilege have varied over the years. We currently have a situation in which the judicial and executive branches are at each other's throats in a way they haven't been since the Roosevelt administration, and if executive privilege were invoked, it might backfire when the Court decides to deny it.
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Old April 2, 2012, 04:58 PM   #2109
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Tom, if the administration's end game was a presumptive win in this case, I'd go along with your reasoning. But that isn't how I read it. A victory for them is just getting to the November election without sustaining a crippling injury - so that's why we are seeing the kick the can down the road, rope-a-dope strategy they've been extremely successful with for over a year now. They have only seven months to go, and as far as I can tell, haven't played out their last delaying action just yet, because the R's haven't pursued this vigorously enough to force them to do so. So we have the attack chihuahuas Issa and Grassley mightily straining at the end of their chains with no hope of ever being allowed to take anything more than tiny nips from the ankles of the administration.
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Old April 2, 2012, 05:48 PM   #2110
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At some point every house of cards tumbles... Some people crack under pressure and others lash out... I think this probably does go all the way to the top.. in fact I would be more surprised if it didn’t...

The one thing for sure I have learned on the TFL is that anti gunner beliefs are less politics and more some sort of mad theology. It has little to do with thought out reasoning and more to do with an appeal to emotions over logic. It doesnt matter one bit to the anti's that the right to bear arms is a guarnteed civil right of lawful citizens, they seek to choke it from citizens in every avenue and venue possible and by any means.

In this case at some point I do believe the light of truth will get to the heart of Fast and Felonious along with many other dark deeds.
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Old April 2, 2012, 06:09 PM   #2111
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Quote:
They have only seven months to go, and as far as I can tell, haven't played out their last delaying action just yet, because the R's haven't pursued this vigorously enough to force them to do so.
It would not surprise me at all if this whole issue is being kept in reserve until the election looms closer. At that point, the burden of truth (at least in the eyes of the public) will shift to the accused, at which point a cornered politician might feel he has no choice but to claim executive privilege.

Which, in the eyes of the general public, would be an admission of guilt.

Of course, that cheapens the entire issue and the underlying tragedy, but that's the way things go in politics.
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Old April 2, 2012, 07:55 PM   #2112
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Quote:
At some point every house of cards tumbles... Some people crack under pressure and others lash out... I think this probably does go all the way to the top.. in fact I would be more surprised if it didn’t...
Even if it wasn't initially, I think it quite safe to say that the DoJ response is being crafted and executed at the White House level.

Quote:
The one thing for sure I have learned on the TFL is that anti gunner beliefs are less politics and more some sort of mad theology. It has little to do with thought out reasoning and more to do with an appeal to emotions over logic. It doesnt matter one bit to the anti's that the right to bear arms is a guarnteed civil right of lawful citizens, they seek to choke it from citizens in every avenue and venue possible and by any means.
Couldn't agree more. Gun control is a religion held immensely fiercely by its adherents, logic reason and facts be damned. But it's part of a larger religion too - one I'd rather not get into but which is real nonetheless.

Quote:
In this case at some point I do believe the light of truth will get to the heart of Fast and Felonious along with many other dark deeds.
Perhaps. Perhaps not. But that isn't what I worry about most. I worry, first, that the revelations will come too late to achieve any justice before the primary actors are indemnified from penalty by pardon. But I worry more that the American public simply will lose interest and turn their backs. I find that to be my greatest worry.

Last edited by csmsss; April 3, 2012 at 06:30 AM.
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Old April 2, 2012, 07:58 PM   #2113
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It would not surprise me at all if this whole issue is being kept in reserve until the election looms closer. At that point, the burden of truth (at least in the eyes of the public) will shift to the accused, at which point a cornered politician might feel he has no choice but to claim executive privilege.

Which, in the eyes of the general public, would be an admission of guilt.

Of course, that cheapens the entire issue and the underlying tragedy, but that's the way things go in politics.
I won't deny the possibility/plausibility of this scenario. I disagree with it, but that's of little importance. What I think IS important is that our so-called "friends" in Congress trade so casually in the defense of our rights. And their "friendship", for the most part, rests solely on today's, tomorrow's, next week's, whenever's polls.
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Old April 3, 2012, 11:30 AM   #2114
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csmsss wrote:

Tom, if the administration's end game was a presumptive win in this case, I'd go along with your reasoning. But that isn't how I read it. A victory for them is just getting to the November election without sustaining a crippling injury - so that's why we are seeing the kick the can down the road, rope-a-dope strategy they've been extremely successful with for over a year now. They have only seven months to go, and as far as I can tell, haven't played out their last delaying action just yet, because the R's haven't pursued this vigorously enough to force them to do so. So we have the attack chihuahuas Issa and Grassley mightily straining at the end of their chains with no hope of ever being allowed to take anything more than tiny nips from the ankles of the administration.
________________________________________________________________

At the risk of coming off "political", regarding the above post, I have, from time to time wondered, and inquired here as to how come/why it seems as if The Republican Leadership has allowed the administration screw-up that is Operation Fast and Furious lie fallow? I wonder still.
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Old April 3, 2012, 12:15 PM   #2115
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So we have the attack chihuahuas Issa and Grassley mightily straining at the end of their chains with no hope of ever being allowed to take anything more than tiny nips from the ankles of the administration.
What a well stated and seemingly accurate analogy. I have done what I can by writing my Congressman asking for more information as to why nothing is progressing. I'm sure there won't be much in the reply, but I made my voting self heard.
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Old April 5, 2012, 02:06 AM   #2116
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I guess this is what $720 Million buys you...

Mexican President Calderon calls for assault weapon ban in US:

http://www.stripes.com/news/americas...in-us-1.173417

720 million in foriegn aid lets you buy a case of amnesia for the Mexican President - completely forgetting that the most "intense" violence suffered by Mexico occured when the BATFE was not only allowing hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of weapons to cross into Mexico - but they were actually directly responsible for moving massive numbers of weapons into the drug cartel's hands. It was like BATFE were drug pushers - they were weapons pushers !

Not only does the 720 mil buy you a convienient case of amnesia to forget about Fast & Furious - but it also gets you a willing partner to push the agenda that Fast & Furious was originally intended to bolster.
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Old April 5, 2012, 11:16 AM   #2117
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^^^Calderon needs to keep on Obama's good side (aid to Pemex, for example), and needs to paint the US as a source of trouble so the gross ineptitude/corruption of Mexican government(s) might be overlooked. Mexico also wants to join, as does Canada, another free trade group which the US belongs to and which, for some unaccountable reason, the US is blocking. The Canadians are talking about selling us energy at world prices instead of with a NAFTA discount as retaliation, while Calderon apparently thinks licking the boot is a fruitful path.
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Old April 5, 2012, 11:24 PM   #2118
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from CountZero's post 2116:

I guess this is what $720 Million buys you...
Mexican President Calderon calls for assault weapon ban in US:

-------------------------------------------

I don't off hand know where the $720 million number comes from, but perhaps re President Calderon's seeking a U.S, ban on "assault weapons" and his references to a redo of "the Clinton Assault Weapons Ban", which didn't ban or otherwise effect Assault Weapon #1, perhaps someone might take the trouble to:

1. Acquaint him with existing, still in force U.S. law, law that goes back to 1934, otherwise known as The National Firearms Act of 1934.
2. Let the man in on a small secret, that being that "assault weapons" are "selective fire weapons, chambered for intermediate power cartridges", a type of firearm that is not generally available on the civilian market in this country, a type of weapon that is not available via the local gun shop or sporting goods store.
3. Of course, it's likely that Calderon is fully aware of the above, but that he is in cahoots with our anti gun, anti gun rights president, or has been otherwise charmed by the force of Obama's personality and wit. Either way, he does his country, Mexico, no great service re the sad songs that he sings.
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Old April 6, 2012, 06:02 AM   #2119
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One thing when considering Calderon, deals, and timing....
Mexico's President gets a single 6 year term, he's ineligible for re-election, and the election is July 1st 2012.
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Old April 7, 2012, 11:04 AM   #2120
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No politician would allow this to affect them.

They are there to serve.
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Old April 7, 2012, 11:27 AM   #2121
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Well, I wrote to my representative and Congressman Issa awhile ago

The gist of it was:


Quote:
I would like to see Attorney General Eric Holder held in contempt for the Fast & Furious cover up.

I believe the contempt proceedings should start immediately.

Border Patrol agent Brian Terry was murdered with weapons that were given to the Mexican drug cartels in a scheme hatched by Lanny Breuer, Dennis Burke and Bill Newell.

For Attorney General Eric Holder to be impeding the investigation into this is a travesty and he should be immediately cited for contempt!
I never heard back from either my rep or Issa, but now my congressman is sending me e-mails asking for campaign contributions.

I guess I should consider myself fortunate that Issa isn't hitting me up for money too.
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Old April 7, 2012, 11:41 PM   #2122
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...but now my congressman is sending me e-mails asking for campaign contributions.
Sadly, the more money you give them the more likely they are to listen to you... that's just the way it is in D.C.

If 20 or 30 members here had a Senator or two and a Congressman or three in their pockets, something might get accomplished in this regards. Possibly.
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Old April 13, 2012, 07:21 PM   #2123
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There's a new book about F&F due to be released April 16. It looks interesting and hopefully will generate media interest.

Link to article about the new book:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=50807

Link to Amazon page to order the book:
http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Furious-B...4362570&sr=1-1
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Old April 13, 2012, 08:54 PM   #2124
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At least we now know where Katie Pavlich has been and why there have been no real stories from her.
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Old April 14, 2012, 02:24 PM   #2125
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I made a point of writing Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin. I ask him why the atorney generasl and the homeland security director can outright lie to congress and not be prosecuted. I asked him what he intended to do about it and demanded a reply, Not a standard bs reply, but an answer with what direction this was going.
If we all stay on theri tails, they will have to do something!
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