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Old January 30, 2012, 04:50 PM   #1901
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
He might not have to. On February 2nd, we have records of a meeting in which Breuer was involved:

Quote:
AAG Breuer suggested allowing straw purchasers [to] cross into Mexico so SSP can arrest and PGR can prosecute and convict.
Interesting. Didn't Breuer testify to Congress earlier that he was unaware of Wide Receiver until April 2009 and that when he became aware he flew to Arizona to let the Phoenix ATF office know that was totally unacceptable (apparently he scolded them so well, they kicked off Fast & Furious in time for Dennis Burke's arrival in July 2009)?

Now there is a memo with Breuer suggesting that they allow straw purchasers to cross into Mexico in February? Interesting. Looks like Lanny is going to be travelling back to the Hill soon.
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Old January 30, 2012, 04:55 PM   #1902
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So I guess I should have said:

I think Holder is so focused now on just avoiding getting caught lying to congress that he'll say something stupid like "I can't recall", or maybe it was one of those e-mails or memos that he never happened to read.
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Old January 30, 2012, 05:28 PM   #1903
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Not sure. But my point is that I don't think it's criminal charges Holder is afraid of. My guess is that he and others are busy shoring up the dikes against leaks of tangential operations which remain as yet unknown. I speculate that there are other plans and opeprations which would cause the DoJ even greater embarassment and disruption should they be made public, which likely involve some of the same players as F&F.
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Old January 30, 2012, 05:41 PM   #1904
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Didn't Breuer testify to Congress earlier that he was unaware of Wide Receiver until April 2009 and that when he became aware he flew to Arizona to let the Phoenix ATF office know that was totally unacceptable
Yes. Yes, he did.
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Old January 30, 2012, 05:42 PM   #1905
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The New York Post also has an article written by Michael A. Walsh discussing the very issue of Burke and Wilkinson discussing this.

Quote:
[The deputy, Monty Wilkinson, responded: “Tragic. I’ve alerted the AG.”]
So he's alerted the AG. What does that really mean? Did he leave him a voicemail message? Did he send Holder an email? Did he send him a written document? Did he talk to him in person? I believe they'll have to subpoena Wilkinson and ask him those very questions, under oath, to see what he says. Will he, too, plead the 5th? This appears to be getting more and more dicey for AG Holder, based upon his previous statements and these statements by some of his underlings.



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...#ixzz1kz3vDVnm
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Old January 30, 2012, 08:56 PM   #1906
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Quote:
My guess is that he and others are busy shoring up the dikes against leaks of tangential operations which remain as yet unknown.
Aw, nuts. The instant I read that, csmsss, I said aloud, "Oh, [fill in the blank]!" and wondered how I could have overlooked that possibility. All at once...
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Old January 31, 2012, 11:32 AM   #1907
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New article in NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/31/us...ml?_r=1&ref=us

Democrats clear Obama - thus, this certainly will be the last definitive word - ya think?

Anyway - don't start general political rants - posted the link for info.

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Old January 31, 2012, 11:48 AM   #1908
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http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...al-career.html

Dennis Burke has been working on banning "assault weapons" for a great deal of his career. Some cats don't change their stripes, they just find new ways to feed themselves.

Take away quote: "In an April 2010 e-mail to a colleague, Burke predicted that the operation would have a huge public impact: "It's going to bring a lot of attention to straw purchasers of assault weapons," he wrote. "Some of these weapons bought by these clowns in Arizona have been directly traced to murders of elected officials in Mexico by the cartels, so Katie-bar-the-door when we unveil this baby.""

Er..."baby"? This op is a "baby" to strut before a public? Seems unlikely there was a mistake in Burke's mind as to what he was doing or why.
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Old January 31, 2012, 12:01 PM   #1909
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Quote:
Democrats clear Obama - thus, this certainly will be the last definitive word - ya think?
If he was already in the clear, then why is this unsolicited "report" necessary?

Quote:
[from the report] agents in Arizona — not Obama administration officials — were responsible for the tactics used in the inquiry and for providing misleading information relayed to Congress.
Actually, the idea that this was an isolated operation, run only by a rogue bunch in Arizona, has been discredited. Lanny Breuer and Kenneth Melson don't work for the Arizona field division.

For the tl;dr folks, Cummings' report closes with a list of things that would certainly keep this from happening in the future. Among those:
  1. Expand the Multiple Long Gun Sales Reporting Requirement.
  2. "The Senate should confirm a permanent director for ATF as soon as possible, and the President should consider a recess appointment if the Senate fails to do so."
  3. Enact a Dedicated Firearms Trafficking Statute, such as the one conveniently introduced last month, and co-sponsored by Schumer and Lautenberg. "Congress should consider and pass this legislation without delay."
  4. "To increase transparency by ATF and oversight by Congress, Congress should repeal the prohibition against reporting crime gun trace data."

The report does not plead ignorance on the part of the Oval Office or Attorney General, it simply makes it clear that,

Quote:
[t]he Committee has obtained no evidence that Operation Fast and Furious was a politically-motivated operation conceived and directed by high-level Obama Administration political appointees at the Department of Justice.
There's a difference between tacit approval and "conceived and directed."
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Old January 31, 2012, 12:20 PM   #1910
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I realize you are just the messenger; but I'm puzzled at Rep. Cumming's conclusions.

Quote:
Expand the Multiple Long Gun Sales Reporting Requirement.
Hmmm, in this case, the FFL voluntarily contacted the ATF to report multiple long gun sales and was told to conduct the sales anyway. So I'm not sure how this will prevent future occurences

Quote:
"The Senate should confirm a permanent director for ATF as soon as possible, and the President should consider a recess appointment if the Senate fails to do so."
I'm not tracking here... AG Holder isn't responsible for the actions of Dennis Burke, Patrick Cunningham. Morrisey, Hurley, et al... in Fast and Furious; but it totally wouldn't have happened if Kenneth Melson had been a "Permanent Director" vice "Acting Director?"

Quote:
Enact a Dedicated Firearms Trafficking Statute, such as the one conveniently introduced last month, and co-sponsored by Schumer and Lautenberg.
Straw purchasing firearms already carries a ten year maximum penalty. One of the issues ATF agents complained about was that the Arizona USDAO would not prosecute cases (which were subsequently successfully prosecuted by the Arizona State AG under weak state laws) Are we going to make it EXTRA-illegal to straw-purchase now? If prosecutors won't prosecute clear-cut cases of straw purchase, then what changes?

Quote:
"To increase transparency by ATF and oversight by Congress, Congress should repeal the prohibition against reporting crime gun trace data."
The ATF isn't prohibited from reporting crime gun trace data. It can share that information freely with Congress and law enforcement agencies. What it is prohibited from doing is sharing that information, with say, the Washinton Post. Not that this appears to have stopped it from doing just that in an effort to promote the multiple sales reporting requirement. Strangely enough, the portion of the Oversight Committee responsible for this idiotic report reaches the conclusion that this type of lawbreaking is to be rewarded rather than condemned.
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Old January 31, 2012, 12:56 PM   #1911
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Quote:
the Committee has obtained no evidence that Operation Fast and Furious was a politically-motivated operation conceived and directed by high-level Obama Administration political appointees at the Department of Justice.
The question then becomes, "how hard did they really look for the evidence?". One can conduct an investigation which is designed to come to the very conclusion the investigator would like it to.

I believe this is purely a political plastic sheet designed to protect Obama's people from the flying fragments coming from whatever Issa uses "Sledge O Matic" to pulverize on Thursday.
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Old January 31, 2012, 12:58 PM   #1912
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The whole thing hinges on semantics:

Quote:
no evidence that Operation Fast and Furious was a politically-motivated operation conceived and directed
He's not claiming ignorance any more, since everybody knows better.
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Old January 31, 2012, 01:02 PM   #1913
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It merely destroys their own denial - using this event for political advantage, after swearing there was no attempt to use this for political advantage.
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Old January 31, 2012, 01:16 PM   #1914
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We'll all see what Holder has to say for himself on Thursday. Testimony starts at 9:00 AM.
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Old January 31, 2012, 01:16 PM   #1915
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It merely destroys their own denial - using this event for political advantage, after swearing there was no attempt to use this for political advantage.

Quote:
“I’ve never been into looking at the past and trying to blame people for the past”
-Bloomberg, on Fast and Furious

Heh, if even the most fervent anti-gunner in the country believes that selling guns to drug dealers in Mexico is ok who are we to argue? I say let them keep it and throw it in their face every single time they want to argue their idiot points.
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Old January 31, 2012, 04:28 PM   #1916
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I've heard it called "compartmentalization"

Burke is a dangerous dangerous man.

When he says

Quote:
It's going to bring a lot of attention to straw purchasers of assault weapons. Some of these weapons bought by these clowns in Arizona have been directly traced to murders of elected officials in Mexico by the cartels, so Katie-bar-the-door when we unveil this baby.
He completely disassociates from the reality that his plan supplied murderers with the weapons they subsequently used to slaughter elected officials.

His plan... His!

Not the straw purchasers who wouldn’t have been able to purchase anything except for the fact that BATFE pressured them into cooperating with the operation. It was Burkes plan that brought about the death of hundreds and hundreds of Mexican politicians and innocent bystanders.

The other thought that comes to my mind is how elated he is over it.

Could he possibly convey a more ruthless attitude or be more callous? Talk about heartless… It’s this “can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs” mentality that borderlines on that of a sociopath.


.
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Old January 31, 2012, 06:46 PM   #1917
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Darrell Issa threatens Eric Holder with contempt

I don't have much faith in the "system" at this point, but there's always hope. At least Issa is talking a good game!

Quote:
By TIM MAK | 1/31/12 5:48 PM EST Updated: 1/31/12 6:26 PM EST

House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) threatened Tuesday to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress if the Justice Department did not provide certain documents in response to the committee’s subpoena.

In a letter to Holder, Issa wrote that “this committee will have no alternative but to move forward with proceedings to hold you in contempt of Congress” if Holder and the DOJ didn’t produce documents they demanded relating to the Fast and Furious gun-walking scandal.


Read more:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/72246.html
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Old January 31, 2012, 07:20 PM   #1918
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He's probobly not going to comply with the laws laid out in a nation of cowards.
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Old January 31, 2012, 09:55 PM   #1919
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So, they issue a report before the investigation is completed?
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Old January 31, 2012, 10:05 PM   #1920
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The whole thing is starting to look more like a farce every day. Gosh you would think with the election coming they would at least try to parley it into something.
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Old January 31, 2012, 10:24 PM   #1921
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The whole thing is starting to look more like a farce every day. Gosh you would think with the election coming they would at least try to parley it into something.
They allegedly have dirt on Issa. Dirt=control. It's all theater, methinks you're not allowed to get anywhere in politics if you're not dirty or blackmailable (sic).

http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madr...n-role-model-c
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Old February 1, 2012, 09:41 AM   #1922
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So what happens if Holder is found in contempt of congress? Who is going to enforce the "contempt" citation?

Quote:
They allegedly have dirt on Issa. Dirt=control
Yep, Issa is compromised. BTW: Jay Bergey has been a friend of mine for 50 years.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../NEWS12714.dtl
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Old February 1, 2012, 11:33 AM   #1923
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Contempt story:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0112/72246.html

Let's see them do it.
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Old February 1, 2012, 11:54 AM   #1924
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Report of gun probe was the headline in a small National Briefs item in 1 Feb issue of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, page A-10

The piece went on to note that Democrats on the House Oversight & Government Reform Committee on Tuesday published a report on the disputed gun trafficking investigation ... Has the text of this report been released,and if so, where?
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Old February 1, 2012, 01:08 PM   #1925
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Has the text of this report been released,and if so, where?
It's linked from the NY Times article cited by Glenn in post #1905. The article itself is worth reading. Here's a direct link [pdf] to the report.
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