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Old December 8, 2011, 12:47 AM   #1626
bob.a
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I'm constantly amazed and disappointed to find that the level of cynicism I hold toward the government is regularly exceeded by the cynicism of the government itself in actually taking the actions that I feel so cynical about.

But I love to watch them squirm, when it catches up with them.
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Old December 8, 2011, 05:20 AM   #1627
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Luis Gutierrez's take on who should be held responsible:

http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/06/hi...-should-leave/

He seems to have a pretty high threshold for what should cause Holder's resignation. He also doesn't seem to have a clue as to how many Mexican nationals died in the cartel violence.



Also, Grassley calls for Lanny Breuer to resign:

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...ation-from-doj

Holder's defenders keep up the mantra:

We know the vast majority of weapons used by the Mexican drug cartels come from the United States,

We know the vast majority of weapons used by the Mexican drug cartels come from the United States,

We know the vast majority of weapons used by the Mexican drug cartels come from the United States.

I think the NRA needs to mount a simple slogan campaign:

We know the vast majority of weapons used by the Mexican drug cartels come from the State Department and BATFE.

Last edited by C0untZer0; December 8, 2011 at 05:28 AM.
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Old December 8, 2011, 08:49 AM   #1628
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I am sure the Caller would like to keep Holder around. At this point he is such an easy target they can keep kicking him the dingle every day all the way to election day. Someone new would start things all over again. You have to love politics. Forcing Breuer out would be great revenge for the whole Lewinsky affair. Besides he seems most likely to have told the most lies and half truths.

Did that sound cynical?
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Old December 8, 2011, 09:14 AM   #1629
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I think cynicism is the new normal these days.
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Old December 8, 2011, 09:35 AM   #1630
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Holder F&F testimony streaming at 9.30 on cspan3

http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN3/
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Old December 8, 2011, 09:49 AM   #1631
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Well first of all, if Lanny is going to pretend to fall on his sword, feign responsibility and be Holder's living breathing get of jail free card - he should actually fall on his sword and resign.


Secondly, Breuer and Feinstein obviously rehearsed their little act where Feinstein says "Is it fair to assume that 70% of the firearms showing up in Mexico are from the United States." And Breuer says "Thank you for this question and your leadership on this issue. 94,000 weapons have been recovered in the last 5 years in Mexico, 64,000 are traced to the United States. We have to do something to prevent criminals from getting those guns senator." And Feinstein says "We have very lax laws when it comes to guns. [sic] Do you believe that if there were some form of registration when you purchase these firearms - that would make a difference?" And Breuer says "I do Senator."

He should be forced to resign for such bad acting and pretending that it wasn't all scripted and rehearsed.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/fein...n-registration



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Old December 8, 2011, 09:53 AM   #1632
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He should be forced to resign for such bad acting and pretending that it wasn't all scripted and rehearsed.
Most of these hearings are scripted and rehearsed. It only gets interesting when they go off script like with Ollie North and Iran contra. (You did not think that this was the first time the government illegally sold weapons for political gain did you)
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Old December 8, 2011, 10:00 AM   #1633
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The politics of it really sicken me - Bobby Scott drags H.R. 822 into an investigation of Fast & Furious ? And then goes on to call for more gun control?

It just confirms that F&F was in reality about changing gun laws in the U.S. F&F was not about taking down Mexican Gun Cartels.
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Old December 8, 2011, 10:01 AM   #1634
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We need a statute to prohibit multiple sales of firearms to those who are prohibited from owning firearms.
I just got a headache.
I suppose that was Bobby Scott, was listening, not watching.
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Old December 8, 2011, 10:10 AM   #1635
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We need a statute to prohibit multiple sales of firearms to those who are prohibited from owning firearms.
True. But can we at least grant an exemption for sellers who call the ATF first about illegal sales and then get told to sell them anyway?
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Old December 8, 2011, 10:18 AM   #1636
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Just once, I would like to hear a government official answer a yes or no question with a simple yes or no.
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Old December 8, 2011, 10:41 AM   #1637
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Holder just said that he would like to see a "permanent ATF director". I suppose he means...similar to a Supreme Court justice, appointed by him, to make decisions that jive with his political opinions, for the next 30 years? Or maybe appointed by the Brady Group?

I don't see how any of these folks could get either elected or appointed if their campaigns/platforms were truthful from the start. Never being held to account for anything said or done, obviously makes that issue larger.
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Old December 8, 2011, 11:22 AM   #1638
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Oh wow...

Quote:
Holder said such a program "must never happen again," but effectively urged lawmakers to move on -- and tackle the broader issue of the flow of firearms into Mexico.

"We cannot afford to allow the tragic mistakes of 'Operation Fast and Furious' to become a political sideshow or a series of media opportunities," he said. "Instead, we must move forward and recommit ourselves to our shared public safety obligations."
...how can he say that without some entity striking him with a lightning bolt I don't know...
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Old December 8, 2011, 11:32 AM   #1639
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Holder said such a program "must never happen again," but effectively urged lawmakers to move on -- and tackle the broader issue of the flow of firearms into Mexico.
...and mean while the flow of drugs and illegal immigrants into the USA continues nearly unabated.
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Old December 8, 2011, 11:41 AM   #1640
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I just got to thinkin'... (I know that scares some of ya'll)... I wonder what the "Criminal Informants" thought they were involved in?

Surely he/they had to know that helping the feds was signing their own murder contract...

Maybe they were not very "affiliated" with the drug thugs in mexico to begin with...

Maybe they thought they were setting up unscrupulous gun dealers...

Told to always buy multiple guns at same time etc...

That would have aided any attempts to use the Sloperation to cement the notion of needing more restrictions....

ATF... Arms Trafficking Foundation

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Old December 8, 2011, 12:10 PM   #1641
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Sounds like Ms.Waters and Hold-on spent some time gettin' q's and a's sorted out...

Brent
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Old December 8, 2011, 12:18 PM   #1642
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Sounds like Ms.Waters and Hold-on spent some time gettin' q's and a's sorted out...
Yes, her "shock" and "amazement" at how the "AFT" was being hamstrung was well played.

I liked Rep. Lungren's line of questioning. AG Holder did a pretty good job of skirting it.
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Old December 8, 2011, 12:23 PM   #1643
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And why is this feller, Johnson wasting the committee's time with discussion regarding gun shows THE UNREGULATED GUN SHOWS!!!

And he forgot to ask holder how many get sold to illegitimate black panther radicals...

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Old December 8, 2011, 12:36 PM   #1644
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Johnson wasting the committee's time with discussion regarding gun shows
The good representative is probably concerned with too many troops on one side of an island in the Pacific tipping over from the weight. . .

Issa is on a roll and Waters is trying to shut him up.
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Old December 8, 2011, 12:43 PM   #1645
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Holder just said that he would like to see a "permanent ATF director". I suppose he means...similar to a Supreme Court justice, appointed by him, to make decisions that jive with his political opinions, for the next 30 years? Or maybe appointed by the Brady Group?
ATF has not had a true director for some time because the nominees have been so bad. They have had a series of "acting" directors. I think Holder is referring to the normal, appointed, Senate-confirmed director when he refers to a "permanent" director.
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Old December 8, 2011, 12:48 PM   #1646
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Issa is on a roll and Waters is trying to shut him up.
I've got to say, that three-way interchange really got my attention.
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Old December 8, 2011, 12:49 PM   #1647
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Quote:
And why is this feller, Johnson wasting the committee's time with discussion regarding gun shows THE UNREGULATED GUN SHOWS!!!
Hank Johnson is referrencing the Gun Trafficking Prevention Act which will soon be introduced by New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=470726


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Old December 8, 2011, 12:58 PM   #1648
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Quote:
Hank Johnson is referrencing the Gun Trafficking Prevention Act which will soon be introduced by New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand:
Which is directly "off topic" for the subject of this session of questioning?

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Old December 8, 2011, 01:09 PM   #1649
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A lot of people went off topic - probably the worst is Zoe Lofgren.

But any time spent not talking about F&F is bonus for Holder.

But it is interesting that Holder commits to taking action against people in his department who shut down a hip-hop blog - he's definately going to make sure that those responsible are going to have the appropriate action taken against them.

But he's never made such a strong comittment to take actions against people who were ultimatly responsible for a Border Patrol agent dying.
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Old December 8, 2011, 01:14 PM   #1650
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BTW... I don't live in Quigley's district and don't vote either way for or against him, so don't blame me for his antics...
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