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Old December 3, 2011, 09:29 AM   #1601
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
Lanny Breuer's assertions that the ATF had not walked guns, apparently, is due to incorrect information being fed to him. The trail goes back one or two levels, but, in the end, we still don't know who started the lies.
The version I read blamed Dennis Burke for the initial lies and said Breuer was away on a 3-day trip to Mexico when the response was drafted and so he didn't know the exact details. Burke apparently claimed the Terry murder guns were purchased prior to F&F (which Burke apparently knew to be false based on later emails concerning those guns). Apparently Jacob Weinstein led the draft effort - which raises an interesting question...

Here you have an accusation the Phoenix ATF is walking guns to Mexico. As it turns out, we know by email evidence that both Weinstein and Breuer knew about Wide Receiver and that guns had walked. Breuer even claims he flew to Phoenix to reprimand the people involved. Now you have another accusation of gunwalking involving those same three people and you just take your AUSA's word that it is totally untrue? Even if you're that gullible, how do you fail to mention the previous incident you know about? Looks like Breuer and Weinstein are going to Congress...
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Old December 3, 2011, 11:09 AM   #1602
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I stick with:

- Act Surprised
- Deny Everything
- Shift Blame

We are still in the blame shifting phase. What I find amazing is that for many, many years we have had no one in national office has been made accountable to anyone for illegal actions. I guess the last one was Nixon.

I think the safe money says that no one important will be made to resign, no one will go to jail and business as usual will resume.
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Old December 4, 2011, 12:07 AM   #1603
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Hardcase wrote in part:
In the spirit of "openness", the DoJ has released documents showing how it arrived at the conclusion that the ATF had done nothing wrong, prior to the discovery that it had, in fact, done everything wrong.

-------------------------

Re the above, well lookee here, The Pot Calls The Kettle Black.

http://news.yahoo.com/justice-dept-d...215322145.html


I pity the scapegoats. Well, maybe not pity them as much as feel bad that they'll end up taking more heat than they should.

---------------------

If Hardcase feels so generous, that is his call, re expressions of "pity". For myself, the following comes to mind. They so willingly took the king's shilling.
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Old December 4, 2011, 12:34 PM   #1604
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As a side note - reports out today of the DEA laundering mucho millions of cartel money to catch them?
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Old December 4, 2011, 02:20 PM   #1605
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Quote:
As a side note - reports out today of the DEA laundering mucho millions of cartel money to catch them?
That is old strategy. 60 Minutes reported a program about ten years ago where they were laundering $200,000,000 a month. They wait till they get a big number and then shut it down, seizing the money. Meanwhile the high level dealer gets a free ride.

The whole drug is war is all smoke and mirrors.
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Old December 4, 2011, 07:22 PM   #1606
alan
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Glenn E. Meyer wrote:

As a side note - reports out today of the DEA laundering mucho millions of cartel money to catch them?
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Looks like the same or a similar story appeared in 4 Dec. Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, main section, page 2.
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Old December 5, 2011, 03:20 AM   #1607
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My own side note.

I watched a story today on Fox News about the F&F mess and they showed a picture of Brian Terry's gravesite. On the marker were inscribed the following words:
Quote:
There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those
who have hunted armed men long enough and like
it, never care for anything else thereafter.

-- Ernest Hemingway
What, may I ask, is that? What kind of epitaph is that to put on anyone's grave?

What am I missing?
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Old December 5, 2011, 09:12 AM   #1608
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That is twisted.
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Old December 5, 2011, 10:14 AM   #1609
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I believe he was referring to persuing criminals, not the actual hunting and killing, like deer hunting.
The persuit of another being that can out-think you and is capable of cunning and intellect intrigues many people.

Rick
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Old December 5, 2011, 11:52 AM   #1610
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The Ernest Hemmingway quote isn't in the context of Richard Connell's The Most Dangerous Game.

This same quote was shown to Carlos Hathcock. He copied Hemingway's words on a piece of paper. "He got that right", Hathcock said. "It was the hunt, not the killing." Hathcock said in a book written about his career as a sniper: "I like shooting, and I love hunting. But I never did enjoy killing anybody. It's my job. If I don't get those bastards, then they're gonna kill a lot of these kids dressed up like Marines. That's the way I look at it."

So anyway, there is somewhat of a tradition to this quote.

You have to know the context.
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Old December 5, 2011, 06:34 PM   #1611
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Having hunted men, I no longer find a satisfaction in hunting animals. Now I hunt varmits which present a threat to my animals and occassionally pot meat.
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Old December 5, 2011, 06:53 PM   #1612
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Quote:
I believe he was referring to pursuing criminals, not the actual hunting and killing, like deer hunting.
He must have been. There really is nothing quite like it. I still hunt and enjoy it however. Still, there is nothing like the pursuit (and capture) of bad guys.
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Old December 6, 2011, 02:46 AM   #1613
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I believe it makes Terry sound like a fallen mercenary.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
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Old December 6, 2011, 09:12 AM   #1614
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Tracking an animal is one thing and often difficult.

Tracking a man, who knows he's being tracked, who walks backward, who walks in carpet-boots, who brushes out, who doubles back to track you, is something entirely different.
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Old December 6, 2011, 02:21 PM   #1615
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US representative Issa recently made this statement about AG Holder:

Quote:
“(Mr. Holder) did not order this operation,” Mr. Issa said. “He didn’t demand they do something this stupid.” He said Mr. Holder should fix the problem and it was up to the White House to decide whether the attorney general should go.

Mr. Issa said congressional investigators had established that Fast and Furious was a “dumb program” and were now looking into a suspected “coverup” and also trying make sure a similar operation never happens again.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...r-white-house/
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Old December 6, 2011, 03:04 PM   #1616
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'Fast & Furious' Whistleblowers Struggle Six Months After Testifying

'Fast and Furious' Whistleblowers Struggle Six Months After Testifying Against ATF Program

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...fying-against/

The one thing I don't like about this article is that they have once again trotted out Jay Dobyns who has nothing to do with F&F and everytime Fox trots him out for a quote they fail to make that clear.

Jay Dobyns has nothing to do with F&F he's just whoring out quotes to Fox - I wish they'd stop.
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Old December 6, 2011, 04:53 PM   #1617
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If Hardcase feels so generous, that is his call, re expressions of "pity". For myself, the following comes to mind. They so willingly took the king's shilling.
I am probably generous to a fault. Nonetheless, while the scapegoats do deserve heat, but they're going to end up with much more than they deserve, while, as usual, the real culprits will probably walk off scot-free.
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Old December 6, 2011, 08:47 PM   #1618
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Quote:
as usual, the real culprits will probably walk off scot-free.
Its a forgone conclusion when the unmentioned has the power to pardon himself.....
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Old December 6, 2011, 10:15 PM   #1619
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Additional details of the money laundering

According to Issa the money laundering operations they were conducting were "Attorney General Exempt Operations", which have been forbidden to conduct with Mexico since 1998.

Issa's lettter to the Honorable Eric H. Holder, Jr.


http://oversight.house.gov/images/st...g_due_12-7.pdf




.
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Old December 7, 2011, 12:20 PM   #1620
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http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/20...epartmen_1.php

Refers to Kurt Hoffman's blog about State Department arranged sales of AR15-class weapons to the Mexican government. About 19,000 in 2009 alone, of which State figures about 26% quickly went into criminal hands...that's over 4800 firearms in one year, twice and change what ATF accomplished throughout F+F.

Hillary doesn't know this? Calderon doesn't know this, and accuses "lax" US gun laws of being his problem? Hillary is either lying or negligent. Calderon has a huge "gun control" problem of his own that he is lying about.

This all makes it hard to buy into the 90% meme sold by Obama, Hillary and others, or that F+F was launched for any reason other than promoting gun control law "enhancements" in the US with the blood of Mexicans and others.

How low can they go?
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Old December 7, 2011, 12:23 PM   #1621
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+1 ^

Good post.
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Old December 7, 2011, 05:45 PM   #1622
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Well now..........who here didn't figure this out on their own?

......but it's nice to have media confirmation. And from CBS no less...........

Documents: ATF Used Fast and Furious to Make Case for Gun Regulations
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Old December 7, 2011, 06:28 PM   #1623
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That is the news we've been waiting for.
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Old December 7, 2011, 06:47 PM   #1624
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The email specifically requesting info to support reports for multiple long gun sales makes for a nice convenient reference to point others to. I just hope the investigation is not running out of steam given Grassley's recent comments about Holder not being in the loop, etc.
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Old December 7, 2011, 07:08 PM   #1625
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Well, that IS what we have been waiting on. I can't say I believe that ANYONE here is surprised.

[Insert long rant about crooked politics, lying government officials, and general disgust at the entire system and current leadership]

The only question is what are we going to do about it?

Kudos to CBS too. They have really surprised me recently going after all of congress with the insider trading and other stuff too. Maybe they are falling back into the centrist category? Too much to wish for maybe.

Quote:
On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."
It is exactly as we thought all along. Trying to change gun laws by allowing gun sales to gangs, helping murder people for political gain. I must say that I was hoping for a different ending, even though it was not probable.
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