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Old November 27, 2011, 12:59 PM   #1576
Foxyjosh
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Bart said in part #1456
Quote:
Next Politico characterizes Wide Receiver as "allowing" guns to be walked. In fact, Wide Receiver had tracking devices in the weapons and attempted to interdict the guns. They continually failed in this because the smugglers had obtained the numbers of ATF surveillance aircraft and would make their run when the aircraft refueled (dirty ATF employee in Arizona anyone?).
All aircraft have a registration number on the side to be identified by Air Traffic Control to prevent midair collisions and to send flight instructions.

For example, if you use binoculars to read an N number like: N304PD
You can go to: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...mbertxt=N304PD
to find out that the aircraft is owned and operated by CITY OF TUCSON POLICE DEPARTMENT.
This database contains information on almost every aircraft in America.
Try it out.

Imagine the outcry if this database was used for cars.

Edit: I started reading this thread when I signed up and now I'm finally caught up

Last edited by Foxyjosh; November 27, 2011 at 01:37 PM.
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Old November 27, 2011, 07:21 PM   #1577
alan
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What happened to page 64. There is a reference to it, but it does not appear, at least not on my computer.
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Old November 28, 2011, 11:03 AM   #1578
hogdogs
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I think the page 64 reference is before mods go in and delete posts and combine things... Least that is what I always thought when this happens... it has happened in some of these long L&CR threads...

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Old November 29, 2011, 06:08 AM   #1579
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I've had the same issue when the pages change to the next number. Changing the number of posts displayed on a page helps. The new page will appear eventually.
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Old November 30, 2011, 01:11 AM   #1580
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Comprehensive history of F&F by Arizona Republic

This is the most comprehensive story of F&F that I've read so far

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...ious-fall.html

There is a lot to digest in this article - its more like a book now. But one thing that struck me was the pressure Mexican President Felipe Calderón was exerting on the U.S. which seemingly translated into a lot of pressure on BATFE to stop the flow of weapons south.
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Old November 30, 2011, 08:38 AM   #1581
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
This is the most comprehensive story of F&F that I've read so far
It is a good read; but the reporter managed to miss some key points that make his conclusion less compelling:

1. Operation Wide Receiver worked in conjunction with Mexican authorities and had both electronic and physical surveillance of the weapons being allowed to "walk." Reading his story, you'd never know this. In fact, you'd think that Wide Receiver was just a Bush-era Fast & Furious.

2. He credits Obama as having done "nothing" on guns; but the Obama Administration has pursued gun control vigorously at the administrative level. The ATF proposed the sporting purposes test for shotguns. Reporting of long gun sales in border states implemented in violation of the law. The BLM moved (briefly) to restrict shooting. At the administrative level, there have have been numerous "under the radar" restrictions on firearms proposed or implemented.
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Old November 30, 2011, 10:48 AM   #1582
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Apparently AG Holder lost his cool and got a little snappish with the Daily Caller when they asked him about the growing calls for his resignation. He turned around and accused them of manufacturing the trend and warned them to stop it. And they got it on video...

http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/29/ho...s-resignation/

And in other Daily Caller news, apparently Sen. Johnny Isaakson of GA has become the first Senator to call for Holder's resignation.
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Old November 30, 2011, 11:24 AM   #1583
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Mr. Roberts,

If possible, could you please expand upon the numerous "under the radar" gun control measures implemented by the Obama administration?

On a side note, perhaps my letter to Senator Isaakson was worth the cost of the stamp.
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Old November 30, 2011, 11:44 AM   #1584
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^

Well, I believe that F&F was suppossed to be part of an "under the radar" gun control initiative.

So there's one example, IMO.
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Old November 30, 2011, 03:20 PM   #1585
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From Fox News, a sort of "where are they now" recap:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...fying-against/

The executive summary is that almost all of the managers directly associated with the operation were promoted and all of the whistleblowers have been demoted and relocated.
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Old November 30, 2011, 03:54 PM   #1586
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^^Silence is golden, or silver...whatever they use to buy you off with.
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Old November 30, 2011, 06:34 PM   #1587
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Holder/Obama/DOJ/ATF are doing this because they know they will get away with it. It's really that simple.
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Old December 1, 2011, 12:58 AM   #1588
alan
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Bartholomew Roberts wrote:

Apparently AG Holder lost his cool and got a little snappish with the Daily Caller when they asked him about the growing calls for his resignation. He turned around and accused them of manufacturing the trend and warned them to stop it. And they got it on video...

http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/29/ho...s-resignation/

And in other Daily Caller news, apparently Sen. Johnny Isaakson of GA has become the first Senator to call for Holder's resignation.

-------------------

What might Mr. Holder do if the "warning" isn't taken seriously, cancel his subscription? Put his huff on and leave in it? One wonders.
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Old December 1, 2011, 07:29 AM   #1589
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Quote:

What might Mr. Holder do if the "warning" isn't taken seriously, cancel his subscription? Put his huff on and leave in it? One wonders.
Sure hope the Daily Caller has all their tax affairs in order...
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Old December 1, 2011, 07:36 AM   #1590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPEMack View Post
If possible, could you please expand upon the numerous "under the radar" gun control measures implemented by the Obama administration?
How about the restriction of all of those M1 Garand and M1 carbines that were slated to be imported from South Korea that the administration stopped?

SOURCE

Quote:
Obama Administration Reverses Course, Forbids Sale of 850,000 Antique Rifles

Published September 01, 2010 | FoxNews.com

The South Korean government, in an effort to raise money for its military, wants to sell nearly a million antique M1 rifles that were used by U.S. soldiers in the Korean War to gun collectors in America.

The Obama administration approved the sale of the American-made rifles last year. But it reversed course and banned the sale in March – a decision that went largely unnoticed at the time but that is now sparking opposition from gun rights advocates.

A State Department spokesman said the administration's decision was based on concerns that the guns could fall into the wrong hands.

[MORE]
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
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Old December 1, 2011, 08:24 AM   #1591
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Quote:
U.S. Seals Court Records Of Border Patrol’s Murder
Link to article on Judicial Watch:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/20...atrol-s-murder

I though we'd already heard all of the mistakes in Fast and Furious. Is there something bigger that would have been revealed in these court documents?

Regardless, I find it odd that the administration would do such a thing at this late date, just days before the first anniversary of Terry's murder.
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Old December 1, 2011, 12:11 PM   #1592
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Bob Owens with PJ Media offers an interesting article based on anonymous sources: http://pjmedia.com/blog/fbi-criminal...pjm-exclusive/

The short version is that these sources say that the group that murdered Agent Terry was a crew from the Sinaloa Cartel who was waiting to ambush a specific shipment of drugs they had learned about. They had learned about this shipment because one of the crew was an FBI confidential informant who had learned of the shipment via his FBI contacts. The FBI knew of the planned ambush from wiretaps on their CI. The DEA also knew. Neither did anything to inform Border Patrol.

The sources go on to say that the missing "third gun" that has was referenced in the emails and the recording of ATF Agent Hope McAllister went missing because it belonged to the FBI's CI and put him at the scene - creating an awkard situation for all involved.

If true, it would certainly go a long way in explaining why the Terry court records have been sealed.
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Old December 1, 2011, 04:56 PM   #1593
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I always wondered about that FFL saying the evidence was gone for good(paraphrased), in those McAllister tapes.
That was within a day or two of the 3rd gun story coming and then going away...and within a day or two of the El Paso Times reporting an informant's ranch was used for drug smuggling by request of the FBI with a wink and nod from various federal and state high ranking politicians.

What a tangled web.....
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Old December 1, 2011, 07:16 PM   #1594
alan
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csmsss wrote:

Holder/Obama/DOJ/ATF are doing this because they know they will get away with it. It's really that simple.

The gentleman appears to take a dimmer view of the government than I do. The really sad part of the thing is that he might well be right.
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Old December 1, 2011, 07:21 PM   #1595
alan
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Destructo6 wrote:

Quote:
U.S. Seals Court Records Of Border Patrol’s Murder

Link to article on Judicial Watch:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/20...atrol-s-murder

I though we'd already heard all of the mistakes in Fast and Furious. Is there something bigger that would have been revealed in these court documents?

Regardless, I find it odd that the administration would do such a thing at this late date, just days before the first anniversary of Terry's murder.
-------------------------

If "the government" (Obama, Holder et al) have nothing to hide, an idea totally lacking in credibility, they WHY are they hiding it? Anyone think that "the government" will answer?
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Old December 1, 2011, 07:47 PM   #1596
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I think the whole review process has been using the steps from the "Spies Like Us" movie.

1. Act suprised
2. Deny everything
3. Make counter accusations

I guess this administration turns to hollywood for policy guidance.... Its all one sad comedy....
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Old December 2, 2011, 08:27 PM   #1597
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In the spirit of "openness", the DoJ has released documents showing how it arrived at the conclusion that the ATF had done nothing wrong, prior to the discovery that it had, in fact, done everything wrong.

http://news.yahoo.com/justice-dept-d...215322145.html

Lanny Breuer's assertions that the ATF had not walked guns, apparently, is due to incorrect information being fed to him. The trail goes back one or two levels, but, in the end, we still don't know who started the lies.

I pity the scapegoats. Well, maybe not pity them as much as feel bad that they'll end up taking more heat than they should.

An interesting quote that is on the AP's web site: "[W]e will make a rare exception to the department's recognized protocols and provide you with information related to how the inaccurate information came to be included in the letter." This is from Deputy Attorney General James Cole. I guess that we should feel special that the DoJ has deigned to let us know how they screw up. I guess that the normal policy is to hide the mistakes.

And, of course, it's a Friday, guaranteeing that it will be quiet news.
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Old December 2, 2011, 09:19 PM   #1598
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Another link to today's story: http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_8560/conte...tguid=JSsD30DU

These people defy comprehension. Most liars make up a story and stick with it. These clowns keep changing the story, and they still aren't smart enough to drop the lies and try telling the truth.

A guy I used to work with (who was, it turned out, also a distant cousin) used to tell our interns, "Remember, if you always tell the truth you'll never have to try to remember what you told the other guy."
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Old December 2, 2011, 09:53 PM   #1599
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They hope and know the American public, with it's American Idol attention span, won't notice the rapid and frequent story changes, ala the ants in The Once and Future King.
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Old December 3, 2011, 07:39 AM   #1600
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Nothing to see here, move along.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...utm_medium=RSS

Quote:
“(Mr. Holder) did not order this operation,” Mr. Issa said. “He didn’t demand they do something this stupid.” He said Mr. Holder should fix the problem and it was up to the White House to decide whether the attorney general should go.
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