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Old November 8, 2011, 03:28 PM   #1501
alloy
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I got a chuckle as well when Cornyn asked if he actually knew the differences between Fast and Furious and Wide Receiver or if he was just "winging it".

At least he seemed to finally to admit there were substantial differences in the approach and results...which kind of puts that issue to rest. Or would, in a perfect world.
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Old November 8, 2011, 04:10 PM   #1502
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Not unexpectedly, CNN's online coverage made sure to play up the Bush era connection in the body of the report. In the video at the site, Holder said 64,000 of the 94,000 guns traced came back to this country. All of us here know this is either a bald faced lie or, to be more gracious, a tortured exercise in semantics and statistics without any real foundation in reality. I haven't seen if anybody called him on this.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/08/us/hol...ion=cnn_latest
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Old November 8, 2011, 05:37 PM   #1503
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Didn't know nothing no how no way. Never got any memos. My staff reads all that.
So, at the very least, he's blatantly incompetent and out of touch.

He claims that he only heard about the allegations "a couple of months" before his testimony in May, but the allegations were in the media as far back as January.
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Old November 8, 2011, 06:06 PM   #1504
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So basically Holder is testifying to Congress that he doesn't do anything. Someone should be asking, "What exactly are we paying you for?", and making noises about defunding his office.
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Old November 8, 2011, 07:59 PM   #1505
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Comment preceeding the following aside, this is not to minimize anything previously brought to attention, the BATFE, the DOJ and Obama et al are plainly beyone the pale.

Interestingly I suspect, hope I'm wrong here, but I submit that the heads that really need to roll, won't.
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Old November 9, 2011, 09:37 AM   #1506
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I submit that the heads that really need to roll, won't.
I know Ive said this before but based on the history of this administration they will all get promoted. (if possible)
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Old November 9, 2011, 12:18 PM   #1507
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Sounds like someone promised Dennis Burke a pardon...

The Daily Caller is reporting that Dennis Burke has admitted to leaking the sensitive memo that was used by the press to cast doubt on Special Agent John Dodson when he first came forward to tell his story to CBS News.

"Dennis regrets his role in disclosing the memo but he’s a stand-up guy and is willing to take responsibility for what he did,” Chuck Rosenberg, Burke’s lawyer, said according to NPR. “It was absolutely not Dennis’s intent to retaliate against Special Agent Dodson or anyone else for the information they provided Congress.”

So Burke just admited to a federal crime (the release of the senstitive information, and if a jury disbelieves his story about intent, retaliation against a whistleblower). Since I'm kind of skeptical a "stand-up guy" would have gotten involved in the mess to begin with - or tried to "dirty up" an agent who protested and then release sensitive information to smear said agent, it seems to me more likely that Burke is angling for the Scoober Libby Presidential Pardon Award for leaking sensitive information to discredit critics.

Naturally, I am sure this particular revelation will be pursued by the press with the same tenacity as the Plame story...
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Old November 9, 2011, 01:20 PM   #1508
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Interestingly, from what I see/hear, note the following:

1. Today is 9 November. During today's broadcast on what used to be WDUQ FM, Public Radio in Pittsburgh, PA, now Essential Public Radio, essentially an "all talk" format, there was a segment dealing with Operation Fast and Furious, featuring a couple of reporters, and a number of callers. The present administration seems to have taken a beating.

2. I believe that NPR News Feeds, news stories that provide space for reader comment on The Internet aso carried a segment on Fast and Furious.

The thing appears to have grown legs, legs that one hopes will not be cut off at the knees.
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Old November 9, 2011, 07:28 PM   #1509
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This sounds like Burke might have cut his own deal - and Burke was in a position to know who knew what and when.
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Old November 9, 2011, 07:34 PM   #1510
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Re Bartholomew Roberts Sounds like someone promised Dennis Burke a pardon...

So Burke just admited to a federal crime (the release of the senstitive information, and if a jury disbelieves his story about intent, retaliation against a whistleblower). Since I'm kind of skeptical a "stand-up guy" would have gotten involved in the mess to begin with - or tried to "dirty up" an agent who protested and then release sensitive information to smear said agent, it seems to me more likely that Burke is angling for the Scoober Libby Presidential Pardon Award for leaking sensitive information to discredit critics.

Naturally, I am sure this particular revelation will be pursued by the press with the same tenacity as the Plame story...

Two things come to mind.

Burke will likely get whatever in the way of presidential pardons he might end up in need of, less Obama et al end up looking worse than they do now. By the way, does anyone credit the idea that Obama was in any way, unaware of what was going on?

As to Bart's reference to how the press might/will handle this "particular revelation", he is likely all to correct, though some parts of "the press" seem to be awakening to this situation.
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Old November 9, 2011, 07:56 PM   #1511
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Holder admits earlier perjury before Congress

Quote:
His new testimony amounts to an admission that he misled Congress during that May 3 hearing. House oversight committee chairman Rep. Darrell Issa and Rep. Jason Chaffetz both asked him during that hearing when he had first learned of “Fast and Furious,” and he answered the same way twice.

“I did say a ‘few weeks,’” Holder clarified Tuesday, responding to questions from Vermont Democratic Sen. Patrick Leahy, who chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee. “I probably could’ve said ‘a couple of months.’ I didn’t think the term I said, ‘few weeks,’ was inaccurate based on what happened.”

Holder also admitted to Leahy that Iowa Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley handed him letters in person in late January, months before Holder previously claimed he knew of the controversial initiative of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE). The BATFE is a division of the Department of Justice.

“I got from Sen. Grassley, what indicate [sic], a couple letters from him at the end of January, I believe it was January the 31st,” Holder testified. “These letters talked about a connection between an operation and the death of Agent Terry. It did not mention Fast and Furious, it just referenced Operation Gunrunner. I asked my staff to look into this and during the month of February, I became aware of Fast and Furious from press reports and others that I received from Sen. Grassley.”
February is more than a few weeks from May.
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Old November 9, 2011, 08:12 PM   #1512
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Quote:
Holder admits earlier perjury before Congress
Perjury tends to be a misused word.

Did Holder willfully tell a falsehood about a material matter?
Willful - check.
Falsehood - check.
Material - maybe or maybe not.
If it can be proven that Holder knew about Fast and Furious from its inception, then testifying that he had known about it for "a couple of weeks" rather than "a couple of years" would probably be material. The difference between "a couple of weeks" and "a couple of months" would probably not be material in the context of when significant events occurred.
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Old November 9, 2011, 09:08 PM   #1513
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...81M_story.html

"Admits mistakes"

Just not his. I like the way he blamed the errors on ATF and others giving him bad info.

"amended his recollection" is a great phrase.
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Old November 9, 2011, 09:18 PM   #1514
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The question of who is going to prosecute Holder and others involved in F&F has come up many times. I think we can safely eliminate a Special Prosecutor appointed by the AG!

I ran into this today, maybe others more qualified than I, can check into it further. It looks to me like it may have possibilities.

TITLE 18 > PART II > CHAPTER 216 > §*3332

§*3332. POWERS AND DUTIES

(a) It shall be the duty of each such grand jury impaneled within any judicial district to inquire into offenses against the criminal laws of the United States alleged to have been committed within that district. Such alleged offenses may be brought to the attention of the grand jury by the court or by any attorney appearing on behalf of the United States for the presentation of evidence. Any such attorney receiving information concerning such an alleged offense from any other person shall, if requested by such other person, inform the grand jury of such alleged offense, the identity of such other person, and such attorney’s action or recommendation.
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Old November 9, 2011, 11:08 PM   #1515
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I believe I saw Holder say something to the effect that even though the tactics ended up being wrong in "Fast and Furious", those tactics were a result of the need to increase gun controls in the USA to prevent guns from getting into the hands of criminals, including those in Mexico. Those aren't his exact words, but close enough for meaning and intent. I believe he just admitted that F&F was indeed a program meant to expose lax gun laws (in the minds of anti gun ideologists such as Holder and Obama) in the USA as a major source of guns for the mexican drug cartels. We'll never hear them admit that, but call it one of those "gut check" intuition feelings one occasionally gets.
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Old November 10, 2011, 03:09 AM   #1516
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Let the record reflect that Mr. Holder is unapologetically regretful for "what happened" to Brian Terry.

Let the record also reflect that "what happened" to Brian Terry is that he was murdered with a firearm placed in the hands of Mexican criminals by the BATFE.

Quote:
Sen. John Cornyn: "Have you apologized to the family of Brian Terry?"

Attorney General Eric Holder: "I have not apologized to them, but I certainly regret what happened."

Cornyn: "Have you even talked to them?"

Holder: "I have not."

Cornyn: "Would you like to apologize today for this program that went so wrong that took the life of a United States law enforcement agent?"

Holder: "I certainly regret what happened to Agent Brian Terry.
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Old November 10, 2011, 09:26 AM   #1517
Bartholomew Roberts
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PJ Media has a nice piece on Sen. Cornyn putting a pin in the Wide Receiver balloon.

Holder: "Senator, I have not tried to equate the two–I have not tried to equate Wide Receiver with Fast and Furious. . . . Again, I’m not trying to equate the two."

Once again, Holder didn't let his fingerprints get on the idea to try and equate the two; but he did release memos calculated to create that impression, and I've certainly seen that fact highlighted by friendly press, and of course, he let Senators Schumer and Feinstein wax poetic about Wide Receiver without once attempting to correct them.

It was great fun to see Schumer, Feinstein and Holder blunder into an obvious PR trap though. I don't know if they truly didn't see that coming or just didn't care because they figured it would never get reported to their constituents.
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Old November 10, 2011, 09:49 AM   #1518
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I see a meme running around that a federal gun registry, in Holder's opinion, would have prevented F+F.

Since F+F depended on ATF breaching existing law, why would a registry have changed the outcome? Made the task more coplicated, perhaps, but if felonies don't deter ATF and DOJ agents, what is a little finagling with a registry going to do?

Rank stupidity.
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Old November 10, 2011, 10:07 AM   #1519
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Quote:
Willful - check.
Actually, it would be difficult to prove it was willful. A few weeks or a couple of months going from memory?
Quote:
February is more than a few weeks from May.
From February 28th to May 1st is actually two months or about eight weeks. Trying to convict/indict someone for perjury on this kind of testimony is darned near impossible unless you have a true smoking gun setting out a cover-up. I just picked these dates to show the grey areas.

I think the folks who are angling for a perjury charge are going to be disappointed. It will never happened, IMO. Maybe Holder resigns but even that is a long shot with the election just a year away. It would be an admission of trouble at the top of the Obama administration. Of course, I could be wrong. I was once before.
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Old November 10, 2011, 05:59 PM   #1520
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Interesting letter dated Oct 9 2011, maybe it was already posted.

http://www.foxnews.com/interactive/p...ersight-panel/
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Old November 10, 2011, 09:47 PM   #1521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFNoDak
I believe he just admitted that F&F was indeed a program meant to expose lax gun laws (in the minds of anti gun ideologists such as Holder and Obama) in the USA as a major source of guns for the mexican drug cartels. We'll never hear them admit that, but call it one of those "gut check" intuition feelings one occasionally gets.
I think you have bought into their brainwash.

F&F had nothing to do with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, and it had nothing to do with bringing down the heads of Mexican cartels. The guns were going to Mexico and they knew it, so it wasn't about keeping guns out of the hands of American criminals. And there were NO assets or mechanisms in place in Mexico to track the guns -- in fact, the U.S. didn't even let the Mexicans or our own personnel in Mexico know about the operation -- so any claim that they were intending to track the guns to cartel big-wigs is clearly spurious.

In fact, the intent of the program was specifically to put American guns -- that could be traced to the United States, and to straw purchasers in the United States -- INTO the hands of Mexican criminals, with the full intent that these guns WOULD be used to commit crimes. And after they were used, they would be recovered by the Mexicans and traced to the U.S. thereby bolstering the false claim that American gun shops are arming the Mexican cartels. The administration and the BATFE knew exactly what these guns would be used for, and they viewed the crime victims as collateral damage. The only thing they didn't anticipate was that one (or two or three, but who's counting) of the guns would be used to kill a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

Unintended consequences ...
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Old November 10, 2011, 09:59 PM   #1522
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Ding, ding, ding we have a winner! If this was any other entity the RICO charges would be well underway as they should still be for this criminal enterprise.
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Old November 10, 2011, 10:05 PM   #1523
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I see a meme running around that a federal gun registry, in Holder's opinion, would have prevented F+F.
Sure. Stop bad things from happening by punishing the ones who didn't do it. Perfect sense.
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Old November 11, 2011, 12:45 AM   #1524
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zxcvbob wrote:

So basically Holder is testifying to Congress that he doesn't do anything. Someone should be asking, "What exactly are we paying you for?", and making noises about defunding his office.

Seems like a reasonable question, think anyone from Obama et al, SA might come up with an answer?
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Old November 11, 2011, 12:52 AM   #1525
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Re jimpeel in post # 1514:

I expect that push coming to shove, if it ever did, Mr. Holder would be eligible, as long as Obama is in office, for whatever he might need in the way of presdidential pardons.

Can the president pardon himself?
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