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Old October 17, 2011, 07:49 PM   #1401
hogdogs
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their use against US LEO would just be the thing they are looking for.
Absolutely not and hee is why... I am sure you will agree when you read this...
I ain't real bright but here is what I see...
All guns confiscated in mexico can have their numbers checked by The USA at least if not Mexico too.

The guns they give us to check are predominately American made... But they lack what should be a vast majority of com-bloc and chi-com gear due to all of their illegal import routes.

Now if F&F was intended to cement thes numbers with guns FROM dealers NEAR the border, they get to go after the 2A rights... But they want the needed time to have such a number of guns walked and then the time it takes to be used and discarded at crimes... IN MEXICO... If one is used in a crime in america, the scrutiny of tracing the gun would cause this inevitable discovery of their involvement in illicit behavior.

If no Terry shooting, no discovery... yet... In another year or so, we would have a new look at guns confiscated IN mexico BY mexican authorities used in crimes there... All of a sudden it looks like a super spike in trafficking of arms from the USA (surprise surprise).. Now the reason for gun control here is presented...

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Old October 17, 2011, 08:58 PM   #1402
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I think Brent is right - Mexico provided just the right amount of haziness to the situation.

It was kind of a black hole of information. Now matter how many Mexicans were killed - the only information that would have come streaming out of Mexico is that American guns were showing up at horrific crime scenes in huge numbers. I think it would have been impossible to get further visibility into that.

Tailor made for using the information as fuel to both back up the Presidents original erroneous statements - and make the case for stricter gun control.

But, when agent Terry was shot and killed - the dynamics changed. That was the tipping point for BATFE agents that had been frustrated with an operation that didn't seem to make sense to them anyway. Now BATFE agents who had been sounding the alarm on the dangers of the plan were going to make sure that it wasn't swept under the carpet - they blew the whistle. And they knew that the firearms could be traced.

Totally different from just a bunch of foreign drug gangs shooting each other in another country.

Since it happend on our side of the border - the information could be found, exposed and reported on.
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Old October 18, 2011, 10:03 AM   #1403
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Hillary knew, and was careful to avoid knowing too much, says the Sipsey Street Irregulars blog.
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Old October 18, 2011, 01:53 PM   #1404
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When someone becomes a BATFE agent, do they have to swear to uphold the constitution?
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Old October 18, 2011, 02:07 PM   #1405
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When someone becomes a BATFE agent, do they have to swear to uphold the constitution?
They do. I know a few, and the vast majority take that oath very seriously. They're just as outraged by this as we are.
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Old October 18, 2011, 02:18 PM   #1406
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When someone becomes a BATFE agent, do they have to swear to uphold the constitution?
Every federal employee is required to sign an appointment affidavit, which is the oath of office. It's the oath that you're thinking about and, yes, in that affidavit, the employee pledges to uphold the constitution.

5 USC 3331
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Old October 18, 2011, 04:21 PM   #1407
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The US Senate just unanimously passed an amendment to HR2112 prohibiting the funding of gunwalking operations. It's Amendment 775 to Amendment 738 of HR2112.

Horses are gone, barn doors are closed, but it's something.

EDIT: Haven't seen a story on the amendment's passage, but here's one on what was proposed.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...est=latestnews
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Old October 18, 2011, 06:28 PM   #1408
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Here is the Senate vote.
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Old October 18, 2011, 10:28 PM   #1409
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Originally Posted by Tom Servo
They do. I know a few, and the vast majority take that oath very seriously. They're just as outraged by this as we are.
Tom, I won't dispute that they are upset over this, but I do not accept that the "vast majority" take the oath very seriously. If the vast majority took the oath even half seriously, we would not be seeing shoe laces being classified as machine guns or FFLs being harassed out of business because of things as nit-picky as spelling and punctuation errors on 4473s.
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Old October 19, 2011, 12:35 PM   #1410
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A federal law to de-fund programs that transfer weapons to drug cartels.

Is there a law for the U.S. Marshalls that de-fund programs that let criminals walk right out of custody?

Maybe we need another funding law to go along with this that the Secret Service can't pass out bags of counterfeit money to mobsters?

The DEA then needs a law to defund programs that give cocaine to street pushers, but don’t keep track of what was given to who or when.

Maybe they should just pass a law that defunds any attempt to repeat a program that was previously proven to be a failure?

Maybe they should just pass a law that defunds programs that are stupid?
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Old October 19, 2011, 01:06 PM   #1411
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Good point, Count! How about a new law to defund any criminal activity by a federal agency?
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Old October 19, 2011, 01:18 PM   #1412
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^ No government funding for criminal activity is probably a good idea.
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Old October 19, 2011, 01:38 PM   #1413
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It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.
Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar, Mark Twain

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It is the foreign element that commits our crimes. There is no native criminal class except Congress.
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Old October 19, 2011, 04:24 PM   #1414
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The DoJ seems to be trying to use the Bush era operation Wide Receiver to try and deflect attention from their mistakes.
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Old October 19, 2011, 07:56 PM   #1415
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If the vast majority took the oath even half seriously, we would not be seeing shoe laces being classified as machine guns or FFLs being harassed out of business because of things as nit-picky as spelling and punctuation errors on 4473s.
Yes we would. Those policy decisions aren't made on the ground; they're made by bureaucrats, and those decisions make life even harder on agents in the field.
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Old October 19, 2011, 10:57 PM   #1416
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Well Bill Newell is a bald faced liar.

I don't know how you can count yourself among the "good guys" and lie before congress.

That guy is in the wrong line of work.
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Old October 20, 2011, 06:44 AM   #1417
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That guy is in the wrong line of work.
Politics perhaps?

I'm seriously hoping that all the documents Rep. Issa has demanded show that Mr. Newell ain't the only one with that distinction.
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Old October 20, 2011, 09:09 PM   #1418
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heard on the radio today, Obama, visiting a school, was interviewed and asked about Fast & Furious. Answered he heard about it from the press.

Press report about the interview covered Obama's preferences/knowledge of children's books.
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Old October 20, 2011, 09:16 PM   #1419
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I suspect Issa already has copies of all the documents he has demanded, and the subpoena is a perjury trap.
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Old October 21, 2011, 05:47 AM   #1420
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^^^^^^ I believe this is correct. I think Issa is playing hardball and Holder isn't aware of it, yet.

Rick
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Old October 21, 2011, 08:29 AM   #1421
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I like to go to Brady's website every so often.

I can't stay there too long, I get too agitated, but I did click around to try to find something about Fast and Furious.

They're pretty freaked out about that House reciprocity bill, but there's nothing about F&F.

I guess it's not surprising, but if they were really concerned about gun violence you'd think it would be in big bold letters on their site.

In a way they are symbolic of whatever brain trust dreamed F&F up in the first place. What is the ideology they are supposedly adhering to? Trying to reduce gun violence in this country by reducing the amount of guns and severly restricting their use? SOooo, they flood the country with guns, giving them to criminals no less, getting a border patrol agent killed, escalating violence on the border to insane levels and endangering numerous law enforcement officers.

Didn't they create exactly what they supposedly are working to prevent?

Just political hacks.

Whenever the ends justify the means - it's a very slippery slope into immorality.
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Old October 21, 2011, 04:46 PM   #1422
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I heard on the radio today, Obama, visiting a school, was interviewed and asked about Fast & Furious. Answered he heard about it from the press.
It's a crying shame when children ask tougher questions than most of the press.
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Old October 21, 2011, 11:10 PM   #1423
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The question was asked by Jake Tapper of ABC as I recall.
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Old October 22, 2011, 12:20 AM   #1424
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The question was asked by Jake Tapper of ABC as I recall.
LOL! Shows how jaundiced I am about the mainstream press, I guess.
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Old October 25, 2011, 09:58 AM   #1425
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the one thing i noticed about his oath, is the person does NOT have to swear allegiance to the POTUS. thank you Mr.Hardcase for posting that URL.

“I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”
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