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Old March 27, 2011, 06:15 AM   #76
alloy
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Too bad the agency remained unmanned for a while, awaiting the nomination of Andrew Travers back in November. He could have cleaned this whole mess up just in time.

Would a Governor, for example Jan Brewer, have any options for bringing a better understanding to the matter thru the court system, if she was concerned about the way a federal agency was operating in her state?
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Old March 27, 2011, 09:26 AM   #77
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Too bad the agency remained unmanned for a while, awaiting the nomination of Andrew Travers back in November.
Actually, they've been unable to get a director approved since Truscott resigned in disgrace back in 2006.
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Old March 27, 2011, 01:13 PM   #78
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Actually, they've been unable to get a director approved since Truscott resigned in disgrace back in 2006.
Oh THAT explains something now. The ATF has just been behaving like a chicken with its head cut off, running and flailing all over the place.
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Old March 27, 2011, 05:18 PM   #79
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BATF / DoJ F*-ups no surprise

Why is this a surprise? I've been dealing with DoJ and other 3 letter agencies as a contractor for decades. Most agencies are mediocre, DoJ is bottom of the barrel from a real performance perspective. While their public and congressional relations offices are truly first class, most of the decisions appear to be politically driven (vs. doing what's overtly right or THE LAW), and consistently poorly planned and managed. (can you say "Virtual Casebook" fiasco?)

The problems that make it to the light of day are "only the tip of the iceberg" according to one former deputy director. The rest are often classified or tightly held specifically to prevent embarrassment, not national security. The root problem is an inherently corrupt culture starting at the top that needs to continue the CYA for face-saving and retirements. This tends to transcend changes in leadership.

In the recent ($10B ceiling) award Integrated Wireless Network program that is supposed to provided integrated and interoperable communications between various agencies, the FBI has taken a very parochial view that it's their way or the highway for the other agencies involved. So much for saving taxpayers $20-50B by working together, which will make the SBInet screwup by DHS look like chump change. This is going to hit the fan bigtime in the next 911 incident. Feel free to legitimately blame those problems on the FBI leadership of today.

In closing, I'll allow that some contractors believe that FBI most appropriately stands for "F*-ups Beyond Imagination". What BATF realistically means is left as an exercise for the reader. Any FBI'ers or BATF'ers out there care to differ?
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Old March 27, 2011, 06:21 PM   #80
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FBI most appropriately stands for "F*-ups Beyond Imagination".
Or "F-ing Bumbling Idiots"

Quote:
What BATF realistically means is left as an exercise for the reader.
Biggest All-Time F-Ups?
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Old March 28, 2011, 01:00 AM   #81
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I believe that would be Biggest All-Time F-Ups Ever.
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Old March 28, 2011, 10:17 AM   #82
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A big kudos to Sheryl Atkinson and CBS News. They are hanging on to this story like a pitbull after a pot roast.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...-10391695.html

In the latest update, they reveal that the lead ATF official in Mexico (Darren Gil), whose job was to serve as ATF's attache to Mexico and whose approval was required for all Mexican operations, claims he did not know about Fast and Furious until after the operation was well underway.

He goes on to state that when he tried to figure out why he was blocked on recieving information from certain trace requests related to Fast and Furious he had the following discussion:

""Is the director aware of this," Gil asked the supervisor. Gil says his supervisor answered "Yes, the director's aware of it. Not only is the director aware of it, D.O.J.'s aware of it... Department of Justice was aware of it."

Gil goes on to name senior DOJ official Lanny Breuer as one of the officials at DOJ who knew about Fast and Furious. Gil retired in December and it looks like he is joining Dodson and others in talking with CBS and Sen. Grassley about this.

It looks like enough ATF agents are upset about this that the chances of sweeping it under the rug are pretty much zero. I'm really glad we still have the quality of people in our agencies that stuff like this is outed.
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Old March 28, 2011, 03:01 PM   #83
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Gil retired in December and it looks like he is joining Dodson and others in talking with CBS and Sen. Grassley about this.
Gil was FORCED to retire early in December because he questioned ATF's failure to notify the Mexican Gov't about their operation, in violation of international treaties and customary protocol. More on that here:

http://tucsoncitizen.com/view-from-b...unner-scandal/

It appears from this article that one of the primary purposes for letting the guns "walk" into Mexico was to boost the number of US-sourced guns seized from the Mexican drug cartels. :barf::barf::barf:
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Last edited by Gary L. Griffiths; March 28, 2011 at 11:20 PM.
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Old March 28, 2011, 04:35 PM   #84
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linky no worky.
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Old March 28, 2011, 05:40 PM   #85
Bartholomew Roberts
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I think this is the link he is referring to:
http://tucsoncitizen.com/view-from-b...unner-scandal/
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Old March 28, 2011, 09:19 PM   #86
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Gil, that was a good catch, as it wasn't documented in the list I view....

David Codrea (National Gun Rights Examiner) and Mike Vanderboegh (Sipsey Street Irregulars) have been on this story since last December.

A journalist's guide to 'Project Gunwalker'-Part One, takes us from Dec. 28th, 2010 up to Mar. 8th, 2011.

Because of length constraints, David started detailing a second page: A journalist's guide to 'Project Gunwalker'-Part Two, takes us from Mar. 9th, up to today (and beyond as things happen).

As I said when I started this thread, what appeared, at first, to be just another conspiracy theory/rant, has now morphed into something beyond the pale.

Three questions need to be answered: Who knew about this? When did they learn of it? How high does this go? <-- Hat trick to the first one to post where the questions originated.
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Old March 28, 2011, 10:34 PM   #87
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I sure hope that in the end it can be proven there is an Obama stamp of approval on this whole thing.
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Old March 29, 2011, 01:16 AM   #88
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It is like watching a slow motion crash.

I do wonder though? As tenacious as the ATF has been in pursuing gun owners for perfectly legal activity do they really think that all the gun owners in the US are now suddenly going to wave off when they smell blood in the water?

Surely they know that the sharks are circling. The longer they wait to throw someone under the bus the worse it will be when it does happen.
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Old March 29, 2011, 09:35 AM   #89
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The BATFE and the white house are being very disingenuous on this issue. They would have us believe that drug cartels with the resourses to buy cargo airplanes and fleets of trucks is buying tens of thousands of guns in small batches from US dealers.

The drug cartels are buying rock and roll guns by the planeload from foreign suppliers.
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Old March 29, 2011, 10:01 AM   #90
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Seems a couple of gun shops were the originators of this story.
I see some documents are supposed to be delivered by Wednesday?

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The Justice Department has until Wednesday to deliver to congressional investigators a stack of records and emails naming the individuals responsible for the gun trafficking operation
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...investigation/
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Old March 29, 2011, 11:07 AM   #91
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Three questions need to be answered: Who knew about this? When did they learn of it? How high does this go? <-- Hat trick to the first one to post where the questions originated.
Watergate?! This one may be Bordergate, as suggested on grm.com yesterday and in Dave Workman's Examiner column today.
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Old March 29, 2011, 04:28 PM   #92
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Where is the Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein of Today? They are blogging as David Codrea and Mike Vanderboegh.

Hat trick to lefteye.
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Old March 29, 2011, 04:34 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by MTT TL
Surely they know that the sharks are circling. The longer they wait to throw someone under the bus the worse it will be when it does happen.
OMG! There are sharks under the bus?? I'll never use public transit again...

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Old March 29, 2011, 06:56 PM   #94
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Seems a couple of gun shops were the originators of this story.
They're going to be scapegoats when it all comes apart. Even though they cooperated fully with the ATF, we can expect them to be thrown to the cobras under the bus.
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Old March 29, 2011, 07:20 PM   #95
alloy
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I noticed J&G sales was one a few weeks ago(interviewed on a news report), but didn't want to add to any bad publicity
I see they are also mentioned here, along with Lone Wolf.

So really from back before this all broke...they have been thrown to the cobras.
Maybe that's why it broke.

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/val...un_store_t.php
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Old March 29, 2011, 09:40 PM   #96
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OMG! There are sharks under the bus?? I'll never use public transit again...
Quote:
we can expect them to be thrown to the cobras under the bus.
And cobras, too! That settles it! I'm takin' the train!
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Old March 30, 2011, 04:23 AM   #97
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Sharks and cobras would be welcome relief.

There are lawyers under that bus.
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Old March 30, 2011, 08:07 AM   #98
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It was a rather calm day out on the ocean, where three men, a Rabbi, A Priest and a lawyer were fishing.

It soon became evident that they were not going to be very successful, as the waters were rather infested with sharks.

Deciding to return to shore, the Rabbi tries to start the outboard. It doesn't even sputter! Exasperating the situation even more, the trio had forgotten to bring oars. They were stuck.

After a brief wait, the lawyer stands up and strips off his clothes. "Toss me the line when I jump in, and I'll tow us to shore!" he says. With that, he jumps in the water.

The Rabbi is startled, as the lawyer takes the line and begins to swim, towing the boat towards the shore. The Rabbi looks at the sharks and is becoming stressed. Nonplussed, the Priest looks at the Rabbi and calmly says, "Professional courtesy."
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Old March 31, 2011, 01:13 AM   #99
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Michelle Malkin chimes in on Hannity.

VIDEO LINK
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Old April 1, 2011, 07:35 AM   #100
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The deadline of March 30th set forth in Senator Grassley's letter came and went, and the only coverage I find since then is this story.

I guess it's subpoena time?
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