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Old September 3, 2011, 05:18 AM   #951
alloy
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Daily Caller has a piece about the last White House Email revelations, and the attempt to keep agent Terry's death from being linked.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/02/ne...#ixzz1WsQjx3xQ
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Old September 3, 2011, 08:00 AM   #952
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Originally Posted by aaalaska
Jimbob do you really think this is punishment? This is simple payoff for taking the fall.
Melson was a career civil service employee before he was plugged into the political appointee position of Acting ATF Director. Melson didn't 'take the fall' for Fast and Furious by resigning like a 'good' political appointee would have done. Instead, he spilled the beans on the Justice Department to Issa's committee and essentially dared Justice to fire a whistleblower. Justice's solution was to reassign him back to a career civil service job where he will finish out his time to retirement (the earlier of when he has 30 years of government time in 2013, or when he turns 60).

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Originally Posted by hardcase
Ken Melson is now a Senior Advisor to the Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Policy. In that capacity, he'll advise the Justice Department on forensic science policies and developments.
Melson appears to have strong qualifications in the field of forensic science. From George Washington University:

Quote:
Mr. Melson is a co-chair of the Subcommittee on Forensic Science, Committee on Science of the National Science and Technology Council within the Executive Office of the President. He is a Past President of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences (AAFS) and in 2006, became Chair of the Council of Scientific Society Presidents.

He currently represents DOJ as a board member of the American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors/Laboratory Accreditation Board (ASCLD/LAB), serves on the editorial board of the Journal of Forensic Sciences, on the Ethics Committee for the AAFS, and on the Advisory Council of the National Clearinghouse for Science, Technology and the Law at Stetson University College of Law.

Mr. Melson has been an adjunct professor at The George Washington University for over 30 years, teaching law and forensic science courses at both the law school and the Department of Forensic Sciences, and publishes in both scientific texts and legal journals.
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Old September 3, 2011, 06:27 PM   #953
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Quote:
Daily Caller has a piece about the last White House Email revelations, and the attempt to keep agent Terry's death from being linked.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/02/ne...#ixzz1WsQjx3xQ
That is good news that more evidence is coming to light, and even reported by a liberal paper like the LA Times. Let's hope this stuff keeps piling up on the administration for the next 14 months at least.

What did Obama know and when did he know it? Use the progressives favorite with hunt tactics on some real political criminals.
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Old September 3, 2011, 10:52 PM   #954
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Concerning the link contained in posts by alloy and NWPilgrim, this business gets more interesting, not to mention smellier by the day.

When and if it is finally resolved, one wonders as to how high up the chain of command it will eventually lead, also how long will it take to make that determination, and what if anything will then happen?
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Old September 4, 2011, 04:24 AM   #955
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I don't think ANYTHING will happen under this administration or Congress. The only thing that can address it will be elections. The press are just too friendly to the current administration to ever rake them over the coals like they did Nixon. Congress has no legal maneuver against it. The Admin will not discpline themselves. And the press will not rail for impeachment.
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Old September 4, 2011, 08:53 PM   #956
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NWPilgrim wrote:

I don't think ANYTHING will happen under this administration or Congress. The only thing that can address it will be elections. The press are just too friendly to the current administration to ever rake them over the coals like they did Nixon. Congress has no legal maneuver against it. The Admin will not discpline themselves. And the press will not rail for impeachment.

---------------------------------------

An interesting though re the Congress, and what it might do, erroneous exposition, I think. For instance, Congress, if it wished to so do, could appoint a Special Prosecutor, with authority as broad as might prove necessary. Of course, to do that, Congress would of needs possess a degree of guts and honesty that it unfortunately lacks.
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Old September 4, 2011, 09:21 PM   #957
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Congress cannot appoint a special prosecutor without first passing a new law authorizing it. And do you really thing O. would sign that law? The AG could appoint a special prosecutor, but I don't think that's likely to happen since he would be one of the ones investigated.
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Old September 5, 2011, 10:48 PM   #958
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zxcvbob:

I had thought, possibly mistakenly, based on what I had somewhere seen or read, that congress had the power to appoint Special Prosecutors.

As to the other aspects you mentioned, they being the president signing such legislation, or the AG himself appointing a Special Prosecutor, point taken, neither seem likely, which I wonder leaves us exactly where, other than possibly with the offering up of a few low grade sacrificial lambs, if that.
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Old September 6, 2011, 04:28 AM   #959
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I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. It would seem to me the statue of limitations would come into play if a new president and AG were to come in. What is the statue of limitations on some of these alleged crimes?
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Old September 6, 2011, 06:59 AM   #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwilson452
I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. It would seem to me the statue of limitations would come into play if a new president and AG were to come in. What is the statue of limitations on some of these alleged crimes?
The statue of limitations could in theory get them past some of the initial crimes; but the problem with obstructing an investigation is that the statute of limitations doesn't start running until the last act in the cover up is completed. As strategies go that is rarely a winner since any crime that has a statute of limitations less than 4 years would usually be much less serious than the charges related to a cover-up.
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Old September 6, 2011, 07:24 AM   #961
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Bypass Congress, bypass the DOJ, bypass the current administration in Washington entirely. It's time the State's Attorney Generals of Arizona and Texas got into the act and ordered an investigation based on the deaths of Agents Zapata and Terry. The persons who purchased the weapon that killed Agent Zapata are already being held in a Texas jail. Let these criminals testify and put the heat on the ATF from another direction; a direction they can't bury or cover up.
Negligent homicide is still a felony under both Arizona and Texas state law.
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Old September 6, 2011, 08:05 AM   #962
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I had thought, possibly mistakenly, based on what I had somewhere seen or read, that congress had the power to appoint Special Prosecutors.
They used to have a special prosecutor called the Office of Independent Council, but they eliminated it in 1999 and gave those responsibilities to the DOJ.
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Old September 6, 2011, 08:05 AM   #963
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I've wondered about that... why don't the states pursue a federal government or it's agents who were facilitating what appears to have been ongoing criminal activities within thier jurisdictions?

Is it a fashion faux pas? Can the federal gov just come into any state and start selling dope, or guns. or any other thing?
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Old September 6, 2011, 08:12 AM   #964
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Can a president give a blanket pardon to anyone involved in a situation like this if they are convicted? (I believe so.)

What if the case is not prosecuted? Can the president give a blanket pardon for all "Crimes and misdemeanors" committed that have not been found out about yet? Sort of a blanket pardon? (I do not know if I am asking this in the right fashion, but I think I am.)
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Old September 6, 2011, 08:17 AM   #965
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What if the case is not prosecuted? Can the president give a blanket pardon for all "Crimes and misdemeanors" committed that have not been found out about yet? Sort of a blanket pardon?
President Ford did that with Nixon. (and it was quite scandalous at the time)
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Old September 6, 2011, 10:22 AM   #966
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Congress cannot appoint a special prosecutor without first passing a new law authorizing it. And do you really thing O. would sign that law?
If there is enough support in Congress they can override the veto.

I doubt the Senate would do so unless O was standing there with blood dripping off his hands.
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Old September 6, 2011, 01:07 PM   #967
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What about the NRA's call for citizens to demand a special prosecutor ?

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...n-fast-furious
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Old September 6, 2011, 02:10 PM   #968
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Another gun walking operation - this time in Indiana

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...rime-gun-sales
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Old September 6, 2011, 02:45 PM   #969
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Time to open a new front for full disclosure on Gun-Walker

Vanderboegh at Sipsey St. was one of the first bloggers to break this story.

Follow the link and read his latest idea to open this story up.

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/

Anyone who says this is like Watergate needs to understand that no one died as a result of Watergate. This administration makes Tricky Dick look like a saint!
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Old September 6, 2011, 03:02 PM   #970
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And in more recent news, a two-fer:
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...lker-testimony

It appears that not only was the Fast and Furious group shipping inert grenade hulls to Mexico in order "to see if they were being used in IEDs"; but it looks like they are attempting to implicate Agent Forcelli (one of the F&F whistleblowers) in this. I'm not real clear on what was going on based on the article, which indicates that Forcelli is the subject of retaliation but doesn't make clear (at least to me) how that is going on - though it does mention that someone sent the Deputy Attorney General a package of info that implicates Forcelli in the grenade scheme but omits some relevant info (such as an email from Dennis Burke authorizing the operation).
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Old September 6, 2011, 03:30 PM   #971
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Fast & Furious in Texas and Arizona. Castaway in Florida (and possibly Georgia). Now this as yet unnamed operation in Indiana. I also know two dealers in Oklahoma who have been approached by the ATF.
Folks, what you are looking at, like it or not, is a deliberate arming of the criminal element in this country and at least two neighboring countries for a yet unknown purpose. It is quite possible that this was in operation nationwide.
Is it so far-fetched? This is Cold-War theory. They used to call it "balance of power". If you can't disarm one side, you make the other side equal.
We have records that show who makes political contributions...except for one group...the criminals. Is it beyond logic to consider that the drug cartels alone could be major financial contributors to our political process? With an industry that generates hundreds of billions of dollars in profits, is it so far fetched to think that a few billion spent on political manipulation and attempting to disarm the public wouldn't be a smart thing for them to do?
If you don't think it's possible, I suggest you look at Chicago from the 20's and 30's to the present and the present state of gun control in that city even after McDonald v. Chicago. They are doing their best to insure that the status quo remains; that only the criminals, the police and members of the political machine have the right to own and bear arms.
Now apply Chicago "politics" to the rest of the nation.
And where is our current President from?

Last edited by DWFan; September 6, 2011 at 03:50 PM.
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Old September 6, 2011, 03:55 PM   #972
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^ I'm not sure what you're implying.

I believe the hidden agenda behind Fast & Furious was to provide data that Mexican drug cartels were being armed with weapons originating in America.

That data could then be used to argue for stricter gun control laws.
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Old September 6, 2011, 07:02 PM   #973
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"That data could then be used to argue for stricter gun control laws. "

If the actual data do not show what you want, create new data.
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Old September 6, 2011, 07:04 PM   #974
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Or it could be used to bolster support for the ratification of the UN Small Arms Treaty (in "repentance" for illegally funneling weapons to other countries) which would eventually lead to a disarming of US citizens and, just like Chicago, leave only the government, law enforcement and the criminals with weapons.
As far as criminals funding politicians, a sizable portion of politicians in this country are either denied office or removed from office by their criminal activities so possibly being financed by criminals isn't a stretch. Obama had Raines and Rezko and an entire organization called ACORN.

Last edited by DWFan; September 6, 2011 at 07:21 PM.
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Old September 7, 2011, 01:47 AM   #975
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Quote:
It would seem to me the statue of limitations would come into play if a new president and AG were to come in. What is the statue of limitations on some of these alleged crimes?
I have always wondered about statues of limitations myself. I wonder if for these crimes the statue of limitations would look more like this:



or this:

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