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Old March 17, 2013, 11:14 AM   #2726
Tom Servo
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The most shocking thing about the Fox article is the quote from Holder:

Quote:
But I have to tell you that for me to really be affected by what happened, I'd have to have respect for the people who voted in that way (...) And I didn't, so it didn't have that huge an impact on me."
That's the Attorney General of the United States saying that he really doesn't mind being held in criminal contempt of Congress because he just doesn't respect the body that passed judgment.
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Old March 17, 2013, 02:29 PM   #2727
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That is a pretty revealing statement.

Let's hope that his respect for them will be forced upon him, and SOON.
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Old March 17, 2013, 02:31 PM   #2728
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The problem with the Attorney General being found in criminal contempt of Congress is that there's SFA Congress can do about it. They have no enforcement powers; that's the Executive Branch's territory. And Holder works for the Executive Branch.

Most that Congress can do is cut off funding, since they hold the purse strings.
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Old March 17, 2013, 03:01 PM   #2729
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Hehe. Can they cut off his salary and medical insurance?
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Old March 17, 2013, 06:39 PM   #2730
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I'm simply amazed that mediation is still on the table. Silly me, I thought once you subpoenaed something, you were past the point of negotiating over its production.
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Old March 17, 2013, 07:02 PM   #2731
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Quote:
I'm simply amazed that mediation is still on the table. Silly me, I thought once you subpoenaed something, you were past the point of negotiating over its production.
Bingo!!!
i cant believe that Issa and Grassley are not all over this. One source refers to Holder's contempt citation as "hollow political theatre".
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Old March 17, 2013, 08:34 PM   #2732
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Quote:
Hehe. Can they cut off his salary and medical insurance?
They can defund the entire [in]justice department if they want to. Since all spending bill must originate in the House, I don't think they even need the Senate's cooperation -- the House by itself might not be able to cut off funds already appropriated, but they could shut it down next budget cycle.

The thing is, Issa and Grassley are just posturing (if they meant business they would have acted a long time ago) and the rest of Congressional Republicans are just humoring them.
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Old April 26, 2013, 08:14 AM   #2733
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Contrary to popular belief, the debacle over Fast & Furious is not dead.

From a report by David Workman in an Examiner article: What is president hiding about Fast & Furious?

David starts his column with:

Quote:
A federal judge appointed by President Barack Obama may force him to turn loose of documents relating to Operation Fast and Furious, the scandalous gun trafficking sting that prompted a full blown investigation and hearings before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.
Then from the Chicago Tribune: Obama resists Republican bid to see gun smuggling operation documents

Quote:
President Barack Obama is resisting a congressional subpoena for documents related to how the administration responded to the revelation of the failed operation known as "Fast and Furious" on the U.S.- Mexican border. It has already turned over thousands of pages of documents about the operation itself.

Justice Department lawyer Ian Gershengorn told a hearing the matter was best left to the give-and-take of the U.S. government's two elected branches, the president and Congress, and should not be a matter for the courts.
Also from The Washington Post: Judge skeptical of Justice Department’s bid to dismiss Congress’ lawsuit over Fast & Furious

Quote:
Judge Amy Berman Jackson sharply challenged the department’s claim that federal courts have no jurisdiction in the dispute. Department lawyer Ian Gershengorn said the battle over the documents should be resolved by the checks and balances between the legislative and executive branches.

“I’m a check and balance,” countered Jackson, an appointee of President Barack Obama. “The third branch exists.”
We all know that the courts move slowly, so it's not a surprise that months later, we might have something come about in this case. What is surprising is that a Judge appointed by Obama appears to be really looking at this, in a way that might topple Obama's claims of executive privilege.
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Old April 26, 2013, 10:04 AM   #2734
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Al, thanks for keeping us up to date on this.
I was hoping this wasn't going to slip quietly into the night.
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Old April 26, 2013, 10:08 AM   #2735
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I'd been wondering if anything was ever going to crop up on this again. I'd sure like to see more action on it, but I am (quite frankly) just relieved that it isn't totally dead.
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Old April 26, 2013, 10:10 AM   #2736
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I guess Ian Gershengorn never heard of Marbury v Madison.
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Old May 20, 2013, 08:49 PM   #2737
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Quote:
I'd been wondering if anything was ever going to crop up on this again
This article brings up the possibility that Dennis Burke could be disbarred...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...histle-blower/

Another article, and a link to the report:

http://www.examiner.com/article/gras...-whistleblower

http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/2013/s1305.pdf

It may be that with 3 scandals going - Benghazi, IRS and the AP scandal, that news agencies who glossed over this in years past will take a more serious look at what really happened. I think the administration and Holder especially has lost credibility, with the public but especially the media. Maybe the fact that the president claimed executive privilege will get more coverage...
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Old May 20, 2013, 09:29 PM   #2738
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IMO: Little, if anything, will ever be done about Operation Fast and Furious. After the election was over congress promptly forgot about F&F.
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Old May 20, 2013, 09:29 PM   #2739
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This article brings up the possibility that Dennis Burke could be disbarred...
I have a profound suspicion that Mr. Burke isn't the least bit concerned about losing his license to practice law. Wherever he does land, that landing will be made quite soft indeed as long as he keeps his mouth shut.
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Old May 22, 2013, 07:13 AM   #2740
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I suspect that if Burke is disbarred that will open the door to prosecution under the Whistleblower protection act. But I don't expect Eric (with)Holder to rush that prosecution or assign it to any truly competent attorney.
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Old May 22, 2013, 09:54 AM   #2741
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That's exactly the point. DoJ is the only federal entity with the authority to bring criminal charges.
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Old May 22, 2013, 12:31 PM   #2742
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Quote:
But I don't expect Eric Holder to rush that prosecution or assign it to any truly competent attorney.
Holder was found in civil and criminal contempt of Congress. There has been no prosecution. He still has his job, and there have been no consequences for him. In fact, he was quoted saying this back in March:

Quote:
(...) for me to really be affected by what happened, I'd have to have respect for the people who voted in that way, and I didn't, so it didn't have that huge an impact on me."
If contempt doesn't have any effect, he really can't be compelled to cooperate with anybody at this point. I doubt he'll have a sudden crisis of conscience on the matter.

Sorry, but Issa and Grassley blew it. The matter is effectively done.
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Old May 22, 2013, 02:19 PM   #2743
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Quote:
Sorry, but Issa and Grassley blew it.
I disagree. Issa and Grassley pushed as hard as they could, given the complete lack of support they received from Boehner, McConnell and the rest of the Republican leadership, who never once dared step across the line and allow F&F to become a 2012 campaign issue.

I think Grassley and Issa made a good faith effort in pursuit of a conclusion, but were left to hang out to dry because it didn't fit into the "brilliant" GOP national campaign strategy.

Quote:
The matter is effectively done.
This I am in complete agreement with. I expect a rather large number of Fordesque pardons on the POTUS final day of office.
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Old May 22, 2013, 02:24 PM   #2744
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The matter was effectively dead in the water, but IRS and tax exempts, EPA and FOIA bias, DOJ and AP/Fox/CBS collections, DOJ and whistlevlower harassment, and Benghazi (with new possible reporting that State gave Stinger missiles to Libyan insurgents, not realizing they were AQ-aligned) may well have breathed new life into F&F.
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Old May 22, 2013, 02:39 PM   #2745
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The matter was effectively dead in the water, but IRS and tax exempts, EPA and FOIA bias, DOJ and AP/Fox/CBS collections, DOJ and whistlevlower harassment, and Benghazi (with new possible reporting that State gave Stinger missiles to Libyan insurgents, not realizing they were AQ-aligned) may well have breathed new life into F&F.
The problems of F&F persist, however. Without a genuine investigative body with the ability to pursue criminal indictment, and a DoJ with a greater facility for breaking the law than enforcing it, and a Republican leadership that can't shoot straight and is incapable of presenting a coherent message making the administration's lawlessness comprehensible to the public, the public will lose interest and nothing will happen.
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Old May 22, 2013, 02:42 PM   #2746
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Issa and Grassley pushed as hard as they could, given the complete lack of support they received from Boehner, McConnell and the rest of the Republican leadership, who never once dared step across the line and allow F&F to become a 2012 campaign issue.
They did, but they pushed in the wrong direction. They went for the brass ring, thinking they were Woodward and Bernstein.

The fact is, the Oval Office effectively insulated themselves, and the possibility of prosecuting those who actually engineered and carried out the operation (Voth, Gillette, McAllister) went out the window when executive privilege was invoked. Sure, there was a bit of scandal. Sure, some folks quit or got reassigned. But nobody got charged or prosecuted.

They should have gone after the Phoenix Division first, gotten a few folks to roll, then gone up the chain. Instead, they wanted to implicate the entire executive branch, and they failed.
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Old May 22, 2013, 04:59 PM   #2747
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They couldn't go after the Phoenix division and get a few to roll. They have no power but of the purse and a light to shine in dark places. They shined the light but most folks closed their eyes.
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Old May 22, 2013, 05:29 PM   #2748
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They should have gone after the Phoenix Division first, gotten a few folks to roll, then gone up the chain. Instead, they wanted to implicate the entire executive branch, and they failed.
Bingo!!!

It soon became evident that Fast and Furious was the brainchild of the Phoenix division of the BATFE and an anti-gun federal prosecutor. The Phoenix BATFE was an out of control government office managed by rogues who sold Fast and Furious to their agency bosses: Grassley and Issa never got behind this fact. In their zeal to implicate Holder and the administration, they turned their investigation into a hunt for who knew what when. They failed miserably.

IMO: The greatest mistake of Grassley and Issa was their failure to demand a reorganization of the BATFE.

After the contempt citation Fast and Furious became a dead duck, as i predicted.

Last edited by thallub; May 22, 2013 at 05:38 PM.
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Old May 23, 2013, 09:57 AM   #2749
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'Fast and Furious' Scandal Returns to Haunt Obama

This is old news, the same thing that was reported by Fox and the Examiner. But it's being reported in Business Week, and with a twist - how the Obama Administration "enmeshes itself [sic] in failures"

I'm just posting this because I think my earlier prediction is coming true - news agencies who went easy on Fast & Furious previously are willing to take a second look at it, and publish a story on it, even if the main point of the "story" is pointing out the administration has a problem with being scandal ridden.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...to-haunt-obama


I also think that there were some news agencies who basically defended F&F - by publishing the administrations claims without challenging any of it

Some news agencies helped the administration simply by not publishing stories on F&F

I think it will be rare now for a news organization to defend F&F, what remains to be seen is how many news agencies that ignored the story in the past will give it attention now, and the real issue IMO is how many news agencies will actually aggressively pursue the story now.
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Old July 7, 2013, 08:51 AM   #2750
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...,2692834.story

Reported facts:

Another Fast and Furious gun (a WASR) was used to kill Luis Lucio Rosales Astorga, a police chief in Hostotipaquillo, Jalisco, Mexico, on January 29th, 2013. Assailants blocked his vehicle, killed the chief and one bodyguard, and injured the chief's wife and another bodyguard.

This is apparently notable for how far south of the border it was.
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