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Old June 14, 2011, 01:17 PM   #251
Bartholomew Roberts
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DoJ may wish to consider whether it has an alternate source of funding other than what Congress provides.
Maybe they are planning to go into the "Guns to Mexico" business full time?
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Old June 14, 2011, 02:17 PM   #252
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Nothing like a little CIA-style "import/export business" to keep the doors of a government agency open, eh?
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Old June 14, 2011, 07:40 PM   #253
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Nothing like a little CIA-style "import/export business" to keep the doors of a government agency open, eh?
Gonna be awkward when they have to start bombing their own offices because they are cartel supply depots.
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Old June 14, 2011, 07:56 PM   #254
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To me, the bigger question right now is this:

How do we get the media to pay attention to this?

A couple of threads got killed as drive-by earlier today, but they linked to today's CNN article, which repeated the garbage about 70% of guns used by cartels coming from the US.

Did CNN mention the gunrunner Congressional hearings? Nowhere that I could find.

We all know this is going on. Fox, CBS, and the Huffington Post have provided occasional coverage. But how do we get in-depth coverage of what should be both a major adminstration scandal and a major public concern? Instead, CNN spews the party/DOJ/BATF-E line, and most other media are focused on "Weiner-Gate."

It makes me want to use the kinds of words that get censored here...
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Old June 14, 2011, 08:32 PM   #255
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Conspiracy to justify 2nd Ammendment regulations?

Did anyone else see this? That the administration may allowed Operation: Fast and Furious to proceed and fail so they could blame American gun stores and justify gun regulations? I am getting this sinking feeling, and I don't do conspiracy theories. If the report the investigation produces affirms this, what is the recourse of the American people? Is that what Obama meant by "under the radar"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mc2o...e_gdata_player
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Old June 14, 2011, 08:41 PM   #256
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I don't even have to read the article. How can any rational person think that this administration would NOT do such a thing?
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Old June 14, 2011, 08:53 PM   #257
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Whether or not it was the initial or primary intent, I am pretty sure they saw it as at least a bonus.

Now that they got caught with their grubby mitts in the proverbial cookie jar... It isn't going to be so easy to wool over this fellers eyes.

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Old June 14, 2011, 09:04 PM   #258
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Whether or not those were the intentions they had to know about the operation. They may try to use this for more gun control but like some of those people surrounding Obama said never let a crisis go to waste.
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Old June 14, 2011, 09:12 PM   #259
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I knew about the botched operation. But I had no idea the Congressional Oversight Committee had found anything to warrant this kind of accusation. I'm anxiously awaiting their report. I'm hoping this wasn't a deliberate plot to go after gun rights.
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Old June 14, 2011, 09:41 PM   #260
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Two substantially similar threads, merged.
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Old June 14, 2011, 09:45 PM   #261
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Quote:
M. Leake wrote: We all know this is going on. Fox, CBS, and the Huffington Post have provided occasional coverage. But how do we get in-depth coverage of what should be both a major adminstration scandal and a major public concern? Instead, CNN spews the party/DOJ/BATF-E line, and most other media are focused on "Weiner-Gate."
It seems entirely logical that the reason this has not hit the mainstream public, is that strategically, it makes more sense to gather ALL of the facts and "smoking guns" (pun intended), and release it all much closer to the elections.

From a campaign standpoint, anyway...
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Old June 14, 2011, 10:00 PM   #262
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Don H wrote:

DoJ may wish to consider whether it has an alternate source of funding other than what Congress provides.
---------------------------------------

The gentleman might have a point re DOJ's funding, especially should The Congress see fit to actually do something about the egregious excesses of executive branch powers it sometimes complains of.

I guess that we shall see.
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Old June 14, 2011, 10:06 PM   #263
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it makes more sense to gather ALL of the facts and "smoking guns" (pun intended), and release it all much closer to the elections.
Another thing to consider: if this extends all the way to the Attorney General (and possibly higher), we'll be making some pretty serious accusations. We've got to be absolutely sure that we've got some pretty serious proof to back it up.

We'll likely see some mid-level management thrown to the wolves if this gets more traction, but getting further up the ladder will require some pretty dire evidence.

And right now, the DoJ controls the flow of evidence.
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Old June 14, 2011, 10:21 PM   #264
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Quote:
And right now, the DoJ controls the flow of evidence.
That could change pretty quickly if Congress were to impeach A.G. Holder.
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Old June 15, 2011, 01:12 AM   #265
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William La Jeunesse has been all over this and the new report released today is not pretty.

There is a video report at the linked page.

SOURCE

Quote:
House Panel Releases Scathing Report on 'Fast and Furious' Gun Operation, Sure to Anger Mexico

By William Lajeunesse

Published June 14, 2011 | FoxNews.com

Hoping to score a knockout blow against the Mexican cartels, U.S. law enforcement created "Operation Fast and Furious" to stop gun smuggling by allowing the weapons into Mexico, thereby exposing the entire cartel network to prosecution, according to a new congressional report on the U.S. program.

<MORE>
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Old June 15, 2011, 07:11 AM   #266
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PDF Report released yesterday by Rep Issa and Sen Grassley: http://oversight.house.gov/images/st...ATF_Report.pdf

Highlights of the report include:
  • The supervisor of Operation Fast and Furious was “jovial, if not, not giddy but just delighted about” walked guns showing up at crime scenes in Mexico according to an ATF agent. (p. 37)
  • Another ATF agent told the committee about a prediction he made a year ago that “someone was going to die” and that the gunwalking operation would be the subject of a Congressional investigation. (p. 24)
  • The shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords created a “state of panic” within the group conducting the operation as they initially feared a “walked” gun might have been used. (p. 38)
  • One Operation Fast and Furious Agent: “I cannot see anyone who has one iota of concern for human life being okay with this …” (p. 27)
  • An ATF agent predicted to committee investigators that more deaths will occur as a result of Operation Fast and Furious. (p.39)
  • Multiple agents told the committee that continued assertions by Department of Justice Officials that guns were not knowingly “walked” and that DOJ tried to stop their transport to Mexico are clearly untruthful. (p. 45-50)
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Old June 15, 2011, 08:22 AM   #267
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More Fast and Furious testimony today!

OK, Monday was on the legalities of Congress's request for documents from DoJ. Today is going to be the main show. There will be the members of Brian Terry's family testifyting. Three cooperating ATF agents will testify. And finally, Ronald Welch ("the Agency did not allow guns into Mexico") will follow it all up.
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Old June 15, 2011, 08:28 AM   #268
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Bart, is this also a 1 pm start time?
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Old June 15, 2011, 08:33 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micahweeks
Did anyone else see this? That the administration may allowed Operation: Fast and Furious to proceed and fail so they could blame American gun stores and justify gun regulations? I am getting this sinking feeling, and I don't do conspiracy theories. If the report the investigation produces affirms this, what is the recourse of the American people? Is that what Obama meant by "under the radar"?
I don't think that anyone allowed the operation to fail, at least not in the way that it has. However, I think that the plan all along has been:
1) Find a problem (gunrunning): Check
2) Exacerbate problem (Fast & Furious): Check
3) Make progress in "fixing problem" (massive gun bust, blame FFLs): No check
4) Use the progress as a basis for more regulation and more funding: No check.

Micahweeks, if you haven't done so, go back and read some of the other documents and discussions in this thread. Even the BATFE's own documents indicate that they intended all along to allow guns & other implements of destruction to cross the border and that their own reputation (which is heavily linked to funding, politically) was one of the goals of this operation.
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Old June 15, 2011, 08:59 AM   #270
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It, definitely, will be interesting.

There are many times when I can look at both "sides" of a situation, and whether the spinner or the spinnee is reporting, I can follow the logic and even agree with the argument, to a point.

This is NOT one of those times. Even if Agent Terry, hadn't been killed, this was just a DUMB idea. As if we don't already know where all the drugs are coming from. It had to have been to push an anti-gun agenda. It's the only one that makes sense. I hope the investigation into the investigation finds ALL the guilty ones.
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Old June 15, 2011, 09:00 AM   #271
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hogdogs, watching breitbart talk on cspan 3 right now, the bottom ticker says the hearings start at 10am eastern which is right... now.

edit... yep, it's starting.
edit... 10:08 Eastern, Rep. Issa is giving an intro/overview.

Is Elijah Cummings for real? In his opening remarks (ended 10:18 eastern), he just suggested that nobody knows what happened, and that maybe we need to take a critical look at our gun laws. If anyone is unfortunate enough to live in his Maryland district, maybe it would do some good to call his office and ask him to stop being disingenuous.

Grassley on now. 10:23. "Agents said it was a bad idea, and gun dealers said it was a bad idea... Who thought it was a good idea?"
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Old June 15, 2011, 09:20 AM   #272
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lol...Oh, there is an on/off switch?
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Old June 15, 2011, 10:26 AM   #273
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I just spotted this on CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/06/...ous/index.html

(I hope this doesn't count as a drive-by.)

Edited to add a short description: This is the CNN coverage of the hearings that are about to take place, in which the relatives of Brian Terry are expected to testify.

Here are the first two paragraphs, as posted by CNN. No challenge to copyright is intended.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CNN
Washington (CNN) -- A controversial strategy by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to link gun buyers in the United States to Mexican drug cartels will be scrutinized Wednesday at a Congressional hearing.

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform wants to pin down who authorized the strategy and who knew about it, Chairman Darrell Issa, R-California, said.
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Last edited by Spats McGee; June 15, 2011 at 11:13 AM.
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Old June 15, 2011, 11:02 AM   #274
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Drive - by rule is usually evoked for an OP. Adding a link that informs an ongoing discussion is legit, IMHO.

A short description of what the link is would be useful. Clip, article, hearing or whatever.

No problem, though.
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Old June 15, 2011, 12:08 PM   #275
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Issa seems upset today.
Must be those black redacted pages.

cspan3 http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN3/
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