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Old December 16, 2012, 02:47 AM   #2701
HiBC
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As I have commented before,here:I can only put together one reason why this Fast and Furious operation happened.
It was intended to create international outrage over violence in Mexico via guns traveling through US gun dealers.
That international outrage would be used to drive through gun legislation.

If there is another line of thought that connects the dots I'd like to read it.

It would also take a "willful suspension of disbelief" to accept the White House and Attorney General had no knowledge.

So,now I ask,what sort of events were the 2000 AK-47's supposed to be connected to in order to generate this outrage?

I do not think it was shooting road signs.

No.The guns walking into Mexico were to generate outrage over tragic,senseless acts of slaughter.

That happens in Mexico.The drug cartels practice terrorism.I have seen pictures of rows of decapitated heads on a dance floor,bodies dissolving in barrels of lye.

Its not just criminal versus criminal.The decent,law abiding citizen is as likely to be the victim.

I work in an elementary school.My "every day" is about the kids,the teachers,the parents,the playground.

My grandaughter started Kindergarten this year.

The Mexican people in Mexico ,where our government walked the AK-47s,the Mexican people in Mexico,they love their children,too.And their mothers,and fathers,sisters,brothers.They bleed the same,they cry the same.

I hope you will think deeply about what Fast and Furious really means.

And the incredible hypocrisy.

Where does the political theatre stop?
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Old December 16, 2012, 11:43 PM   #2702
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HiBC asks at the close of his post:

where does the political theatre stop

Given Friday's shooting, it likely does not stop, at least not during this administration, possibly not in any administration, but most likely not during this one.
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Old December 20, 2012, 01:05 AM   #2703
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You may remember George Gillett. He was the #2 guy for the Phoenix field division during Fast & Furious, and he was castigated by Issa for "failure to ensure proper supervision."

Back around Thanksgiving, Mexican beauty queen Maria Susana Flores Gamez and five others were killed in Sinaola. Guns from Fast & Furious were found at the scene.

Interestingly enough, one of those was an FN FiveSeven pistol, which was traced directly back to Mr. Gillett. Now, by "directly," I mean directly.

Quote:
Gillett purchased the weapon at Legendary Arms, a Phoenix gun store. On the federal form 4473 used to buy the gun, Gillett used the ATF office address, 201 East Washington, and said "Apt 940." On subsequent purchase, Gillett used a commercial address, that of a strip mall.
Yep, he lied on the form. What's more, he claims he later sold the gun privately to someone over the internet. Naturally, neither Gillett or the ATF has any comment on the matter.
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Old December 20, 2012, 01:33 AM   #2704
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I am severely unsurprised.
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Old December 20, 2012, 03:06 AM   #2705
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FoxNews has a video report on this at their website. This is simply more of the "Good for me but not for thee" attitude of government bureaucrats.

VIDEO LINK
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Old December 20, 2012, 02:01 PM   #2706
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Yep, Gillette says he sold that gun on the web.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_16...ene-in-mexico/


Sharyl Attkisson has been on top of the Fast and Furious scandal since the story broke.
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Old December 20, 2012, 09:26 PM   #2707
alan
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Tom Servo/Jim Peel:

It might be described as "do as we say, not as we do". As to the sale of this PISTOL, assuming that a background check was required, was one actually run. In addition, might Gillett have been "doing business without a license", or might this be considered as something along the lines of that often mentioned "gun show loophole"?
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Old December 20, 2012, 11:49 PM   #2708
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I prefer to think he was doing straw purchases, knowingly selling guns to Mexican drug lords. It's plausible, and it fits my prejudices.
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Old January 17, 2013, 09:46 PM   #2709
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I'm glad to see this show up, hopefully it'll redirect some heat to where it belongs if the media will cover it. Holder's already been given a pass, but maybe it'll still have some positive (for us) effect on "lawmakers".


Quote:
Fast And Furious Scandal: Man Claims To Have Shot U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry
http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/...ry?id=18242489

Quote:
A Mexican national claims to be the man who shot and killed U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, whose death is tied to the "Fast and Furious" gun-walking scandal.

Gustavo Cruz-Lozano, who says he killed Terry, turned himself in on Wednesday on charges related to a separate incident: threatening to kill Hidalgo County, Texas Sheriff Lupe Treviño.
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Old January 17, 2013, 09:57 PM   #2710
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I saw where the Terry family attorney expressed some skepticism about the claim because this guy's name had not popped up earlier. I also understand there are those who sometimes confess to crimes they didn't commit. I'm taking a wait and see attitude on this. Nevertheless, it underscores how much we still don't know about Fast and Furious.
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Old January 18, 2013, 12:25 AM   #2711
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This sounds like a government cover up if ive ever heard one
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Old January 18, 2013, 08:26 AM   #2712
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Judicial Watch is pushing a FOIA lawsuit to have the documents covered by Executive Privilege to be released.
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Old January 18, 2013, 09:56 AM   #2713
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Seriously to fight disclosure this hard on a failed and cancelled operation can have no other effect than to look highly dubious... This cannot instill confidence in any citizen.
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Old January 18, 2013, 10:00 AM   #2714
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[QUOTE]Seriously to fight disclosure this hard on a failed and cancelled operation can have no other effect than to look highly dubious... This cannot instill confidence in any citizen. [/QUOTE

+1.
I wish Issa and the congress would put Holders feet to the fire until his socks smoke. There is something in those documents the administration does not want the public to know.
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Old January 18, 2013, 11:41 AM   #2715
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I am still amazed by the treatment of F&F in comparison with the treatment of Watergate.

When I was a kid, I looked up to journalists. That rarely happens, anymore.
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Old January 18, 2013, 05:23 PM   #2716
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Or the treatment if F&F compared to Manti Teo's girlfriend. I think we know every meal this kid at over the last year and they were able to obtain it almost overnight.
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Old January 18, 2013, 05:30 PM   #2717
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I see that the government has asked for an indefinite stay of the suit by Judicial Watch. The grounds?
Quote:
The only justification Holder uses to ask the court to indefinitely delay Judicial Watch’s suit is that there’s another lawsuit ongoing for the same documents – one filed by the U.S. House of Representatives.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...ious-documents.

So, because the House of Representatives also believes certain F&F documents should be released to them, that's a reason to stop the Freedom of Information lawsuit? Somebody help me understand the logic of that.
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Old January 19, 2013, 12:23 PM   #2718
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If this is seriously off-point, forgive me, but re what I understand to be Obama's nomination as "Permanent Director of ATF", the gentleman who has been äcting", is this another of the usual dyed in the wool anti gun/anti gun rights types, or might this guy be more legitimate.
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Old January 19, 2013, 06:37 PM   #2719
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Quote:
or might this guy be more legitimate.
I almost laughed... but maybe I should have cried...
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Old January 29, 2013, 02:43 PM   #2720
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It looks like the House and DOJ are still negotiating to avoid a lawsuit.

Quote:
Following the January 10, 2013, Status Conference, the parties have continued to engage in settlement talks. Without divulging the substance of those talks, the talks are progressing sufficiently such that the parties believe that further talks may be fruitful. Accordingly, the parties believe that, in order to enable the parties to focus their efforts on settlement and avoid the potentially unnecessary expenditure of judicial resources, the hearing on the Motion to Dismiss should be rescheduled for the week of April 15, 2013, or at such other time as may be convenient for the Court and the parties.
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Last edited by Tom Servo; January 29, 2013 at 02:51 PM.
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Old February 1, 2013, 02:48 AM   #2721
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This is new. It seems the BATFE is as incompetent as ever.

SOURCE

Quote:
Congress asks for more info on bungled ATF operation in Milwaukee
By The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel January 31, 2013 1:29 pm

Members of Congress from both parties Wednesday called for an investigation into the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives' storefront sting in Milwaukee, an operation plagued by problems such as an agent's machine gun being stolen and burglars ripping off $35,000 in merchandise.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

"Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare

"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
-- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey
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Old February 2, 2013, 11:58 AM   #2722
alan
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Tom Servo wrote:

You may remember George Gillett. He was the #2 guy for the Phoenix field division during Fast & Furious, and he was castigated by Issa for "failure to ensure proper supervision."

Back around Thanksgiving, Mexican beauty queen Maria Susana Flores Gamez and five others were killed in Sinaola. Guns from Fast & Furious were found at the scene.

Interestingly enough, one of those was an FN FiveSeven pistol, which was traced directly back to Mr. Gillett. Now, by "directly," I mean directly.

Quote:
Gillett purchased the weapon at Legendary Arms, a Phoenix gun store. On the federal form 4473 used to buy the gun, Gillett used the ATF office address, 201 East Washington, and said "Apt 940." On subsequent purchase, Gillett used a commercial address, that of a strip mall.
Yep, he lied on the form. What's more, he claims he later sold the gun privately to someone over the internet. Naturally, neither Gillett or the ATF has any comment on the matter.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What have we here, another unprosecuted felony, courtesy of Obama et al, the AG is his appointee, when last I looked. Do as we say, not as we do, with the proverbial vengeance. Oh by the way, re this fiasco, where are the guardians of the public virtue, the vaunted members of The Fourth Estate, here known as "Media"and or the "free press", which by the way, is neither without cost or "free", meaning absent all manner of restrictions/special pleadings.
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Old February 2, 2013, 12:01 PM   #2723
alan
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Re Jimpeel's 2719, it does seem to go on and on, doesn't it? Who might it be that will remain standing, when and if The Music Stops? One wonders.
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Old March 17, 2013, 08:48 AM   #2724
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House panel tells judge settlement w/DOJ not possible

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...tlement-grave/

I believe the last time they were before U.S. District Judge Amy Berman she was ready to have a hearing the next week. I hope a hearing can be scheduled in the next 15 days.

It looks like the end game for the administration now is to drag this out until his third term.
(sorry - couldn't help that...)
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Old March 17, 2013, 10:52 AM   #2725
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I really really hope the truth can be dug out of this mess and all accountable get their day in court followed with years in federal prison.
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