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Old July 10, 2012, 10:27 PM   #2501
thallub
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Quote:
It gets better, most of the guys they got on the spot were not chagred but deported.
+1
Just found it on Fox: They turned three loose. It must have been catch and release week:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/02/22...#ixzz1z7OEYgjA

Quote:
- 3 out of 4 suspects arrested at the shooting scene have been released for deportation.
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Old July 11, 2012, 03:04 PM   #2502
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The feds have about the same chance of catching these mutts as they did of tracing weapons to "kingpins". It is complete farce to divert attention from Holder et. al. and F+F.

Heard the Terry's lawyer on the news last night. He referred to F+F as a "botched sting operation" and double-talked his way around some other facets of the case which reflect poorly on DOJ. Now, I can understand he wants to see some "gain" (wrong word, but I don't have another) for his clients, so playing patty-cake might seem a path to go.

On the other hand, Terry was issued bean-bags as a response to FMJ ammo. By the same savants now insisting Border Patrol agents follow the same directives as fifth-graders in an active shooter scenario (run, hide, throw things if found). Playing along to make such people less uncomfortable seems the wrong way to go.
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Old July 11, 2012, 04:31 PM   #2503
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It is complete farce to divert attention from Holder et. al. and F+F.
It seems to me that the trial stirs things up. It brings more attention to F&F, I don't see how it diverts attention.

And it will get worse if the defendants try to subeona informants or even the 80,000 F&F docs that Holder doesn't want anyone to see.
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Old July 11, 2012, 05:27 PM   #2504
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If they actually deport them prior to trial for murder then I fear the DOJ has truly become a criminal enterprise.... Murder is a capital crime with few things in life more heinous.
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Old July 11, 2012, 07:14 PM   #2505
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Just found it on Fox: They turned three loose. It must have been catch and release week
This doesn't surprise me. Many of the statewide straw purchasers received probation when sentence, and the ones who were sent to prison received 3-4 year sentences.

It's supposed to be 10 years.

Quote:
It is complete farce to divert attention from Holder et. al. and F+F
When the whole mess starting going public, the ATF did its best to flood the news wires with positive stories of their exploits to drown out the complaints. It didn't work, but it does show something of their leadership strategy.
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Old July 12, 2012, 08:20 AM   #2506
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Just found it on Fox: They turned three loose. It must have been catch and release week
Three were caught "in the area" where Terry was shot. "In the area" is a relative term that could mean anywhere from Negro Canyon at I-19 to Hell's Gate, some 9 miles apart.
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Old July 12, 2012, 01:31 PM   #2507
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The effort has begun to disbar Holder.

SOURCE

Quote:
Complaint seeks to have Holder disbarred after contempt vote

By Laura Prabucki

Published July 12, 2012

FoxNews.com

Fallout from the Operation Fast and Furious scandal continues to spread, as Attorney General Eric Holder faces a new call to be disbarred or penalized after he was found in contempt of Congress.

A formal complaint was filed last week with the Washington, D.C., Office of Bar Counsel -- of which Holder is a member. The letter was submitted by gun-rights advocates and bloggers David Codrea and Mike Vanderboegh, who have reported extensively on Operation Fast and Furious.

<MORE>
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Old July 12, 2012, 03:06 PM   #2508
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About 9 days late, Jim: http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...postcount=2462
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Old July 12, 2012, 03:47 PM   #2509
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If a bunch of lawyers who make it their business to uphold ethics standards within the legal profession, or some watchdog group had done this it would be one thing - but it's Vanderboegh and Codrea.

Probably all the other news agencies that saw this just rolled their eyes, but Fox publishes a story on it...
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Old July 13, 2012, 12:08 AM   #2510
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I don't care who it is, they are citizens and can lodge a complaint. Holder needs to to lose his law license, one of his credentials to hold public office.

Never again.
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Old July 13, 2012, 03:09 AM   #2511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Norris View Post
As was Fox News.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm.

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"Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed"
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Old July 17, 2012, 05:28 PM   #2512
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DOJ Withheld Fast and Furious Whistleblower Memo

Quote:
“It's inexcusable that the Justice Department withheld evidence of yet another red flag that ATF walked guns,” said Sen. Charles Grassley, a Republican member of the Senate Judiciary Committee whose initial investigation disclosed the agents’ concerns in early 2011. It was Grassley who was the recipient of the Feb. 4, 2011 letter from Justice that inaccurately denied gunwalking had occurred.

“As DOJ's denial was being crafted, some in ATF were alerting senior management that whistleblower protection guidance was in order because another agent had backed up the initial reports of gunwalking,” Grassley said. “The Justice Department is denying the public a full understanding of what it knew and when by sitting on documents like these that might be embarrassing.”
There is nothing about this information that would compromise an ongoing investigation, nothing that merits a claim of executive privilege, and Congress certainly has the right as an independent branch of government to investigate how the DOJ came to lie to them.

Why is this only being released now? What else is being hidden without good cause?
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Old July 17, 2012, 09:57 PM   #2513
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I think this was leaked - not released. Or if it was released it was after the leak.

Maybe there isn't anything here that is covered by EP, but was it really germane to F&F itself?

The important aspects of this to me are:

1) This memo popped out and got things stirred up again

2) The Obama admistration has a serious leak problem on its hands

3) F&F is not going away - every time things calm down a little and F&F stories get scarce - another document will get leaked.
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Old July 18, 2012, 05:48 AM   #2514
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Things get leaked when employees are not happy about the way things are run. This DOJ must have some very unhappy employees.

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Old July 18, 2012, 07:52 AM   #2515
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^ I think you're right about that.

But someone really has to have an axe to grind to leak documents. Whistleblower Protection Act lets you go to the authorities (including congress), when you think that the law is being violated, it doesn’t cover you for leaking documents.

When Holder was made the AG, he spoke about being an activist AG, about using the position of AG to change the country. Being activist and choosing one area of law enforcement to focus on is one thing, but using agencies to fabricate a falsehood on a grand scale and put it over on the American public – that’s another thing.

My hope is that there are thousands and thousands of career law enforcement professionals at the various bureaus and within DOJ itself who just want to see the various agencies do their jobs, and don’t want to see the agencies used to manipulate public opinion for a political agenda.

Maybe the administration thinks the leak is localized to ATF and the person who is leaking documents doesn’t have access to the memos that passed between people like Lanny Breuer, Burke, Newell, Holder, Napalitano, et all.

As leaks go – this one was weak.
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Old July 18, 2012, 09:18 AM   #2516
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Agreed; leaks and whistle blowing are distinctly different. I hope that both types can get the info out to the committee and the public about what's going on in this not so transparent DOJ.

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Old July 18, 2012, 03:25 PM   #2517
publius42
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Originally Posted by Luger_carbine
Maybe there isn't anything here that is covered by EP, but was it really germane to F&F itself?
No, this leak was germane to the question of how the DOJ came to lie to Congress about gunwalking and then to stand by that increasingly implausible lie for ten months before withdrawing it.

It seems a subject of legitimate interest to Congress. Their oversight should include the operation itself and the ensuing coverup, perhaps especially the coverup part.

In the days leading up to the contempt votes against Eric Holder, the focus of the Congressional investigation was being narrowed to the subject of how the DOJ came to lie to them, but failing to investigate that subject was never on the table and should not be.
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Old July 19, 2012, 10:10 AM   #2518
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Fox News is reporting this: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...after-furious/

The implication is if you tell the truth on the ATF your career at ATF is over... Whats next Goosestepping at the ATF?
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Old July 19, 2012, 01:23 PM   #2519
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I didn't catch this aspect of it at first - but in that Fox News piece BGutzman posted, William La Jeunesse points out that Obama appointees were orchestrating retaliation against the whistleblowers and other people in ATF put out the warning about whistleblower protection and the illegality of retaliation.

But the most important aspect of it was the timing and who knew what. It seems to indicate that the appointees knew about F&F before they said they did.

It would be interesting to track the memos and documentation concerning the retaliation - it may be a smoking gun.
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Old July 26, 2012, 08:02 AM   #2520
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Apparently the DOJ Inspector General has met with Reps. Gowdy and Chaffetz, who say that the IG report on Fast and Furious will be released soon:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...nd-chaffetz-f/
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Old July 26, 2012, 11:38 PM   #2521
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Bartholomew Roberts wrote;

Apparently the DOJ Inspector General has met with Reps. Gowdy and Chaffetz, who say that the IG report on Fast and Furious will be released soon:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...nd-chaffetz-f/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re the above mentioned release of IG's rerport, One Can Hardly Wait!!
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Old July 31, 2012, 07:13 AM   #2522
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The LA Times reports that Issa has released a report limiting blame pretty much to Newell, McMahon, Chait, Hoover, and Melson. The report itself hasn't been released yet.
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Old July 31, 2012, 11:04 AM   #2523
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The report said “[Newell] had been reprimanded ... before for crossing the line, but under a new administration and a new attorney general he reverted back to the use of risky gunwalking tactics.”

Just a footnote really but I think it destroys the "Bush did it" distraction defense of F&F.

This seems to indicate that under the Bush administration, gunwalking was acknowledged to be a bad idea, a failed tactic, and it was dealt with.

But even after being characterized as risky, and over the line and after it was discontinued and forbidden under the Bush admistration - BATFE under Eric Holder and the Obama administration decided to do it anyway. That makes F&F a doubly stupid idea at best and IMO - indicates that the real goal of F&F was not to indict Mexican drug cartel leaders.
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Old July 31, 2012, 11:19 AM   #2524
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McClatchy had an article on this today.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/07/3...sponsible.html

I was pleasantly surprised that they brought back Kenneth Melson's testimony that DOJ seemed primarily interested in public relations control, when GunRunner / F&F came to light, rather than a real investigation.

From the article:
Quote:
The first report did allege some Justice Department involvement, notably that Kenneth E. Melson, then the acting ATF director, was made into a "scapegoat" for Fast and Furious after he told congressional Republicans that his Justice Department supervisors "were doing more damage control than anything" else once Fast and Furious became public.
"My view is that the whole matter of the department's response in this case was a disaster," Melson told the investigators.

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/07/3...#storylink=cpy
I'm curious to see if any other MSM pick up on that.
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Old July 31, 2012, 01:58 PM   #2525
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I'm personally convinced that Dennis Burke was the one of the main people who came up with the idea of F&F.

I'm wondering why he is left out of this report?
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