The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 6, 2011, 09:55 PM   #226
Al Norris
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,318
Today, in a CBS news item, it was confirmed that one (some?) of the "walked" guns shot down the Mexican helicopter.

... And the hits, just keep-a-comin!

In other news, CBS reports that the Issa hearings will be on June 13th. That's a week from today, folks.
Al Norris is offline  
Old June 6, 2011, 11:15 PM   #227
alan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,745
Al Norris wote:
Today, in a CBS news item, it was confirmed that one (some?) of the "walked" guns shot down the Mexican helicopter.

... And the hits, just keep-a-comin!

In other news, CBS reports that the Issa hearings will be on June 13th. That's a week from today, folks.

Re those scheduled hearings, 13 June is quite close. I, for one, can hardly wait. Re the NRA alert, and reference to a House letter to Obama, my congreessman "spearheaded" the letter. From the copy I read, it did not strike me as particularly strong, but it is something.

One wonders as to how much of a hammer it will swing.
alan is offline  
Old June 7, 2011, 01:23 AM   #228
Falcon642
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 29, 2010
Posts: 314
A recent story in Politico talked about how some Democrats are quietly talking that they think they will take back the House next year. Do you think ATF and DOJ think they can stonewall until after the 2012 elections and hope for a Democrat majority so Issa is no longer the chairman?

Just a thought. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/56300.html
Falcon642 is offline  
Old June 7, 2011, 08:32 AM   #229
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,699
Quote:
Do you think ATF and DOJ think they can stonewall until after the 2012 elections and hope for a Democrat majority so Issa is no longer the chairman?
Well first, I think the primary purpose of that article was to sell advertisements, rather than inform. One way to sell advertisements is to write something controversial, even if it doesn't hold up to analysis well. Deep in the meat of the article, the author acknowledges that the Democrats winning 24 seats in the House is extremely unlikely, so I think the author was likely just writing something that would draw in eyeballs from both sides.

Now, are those at DOJ responsible for Gunrunner stupid enough to believe that? Well, when your benchmark is letting .50 M2 machineguns (that were bought by paid ATF informants with ATF-issued fake-IDs) walk in Mexico, it is a tough call to determine exactly what they might be stupid enough to believe. Not to mention that people in a desperate situation often hold on to any hope they can imagine; but as a realistic strategy, that is unlikely to work well for them.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old June 7, 2011, 01:54 PM   #230
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,699
It appears that Sen. Grassley has now placed a "hold" on all Department of Justice business before the Senate Judiciary Committee until they start cooperating with the investigation.

In the meantime, the first of the Gunrunner hearings is going to deal with the legality of the DOJ ignoring the Congressional subpoena. Dave Workman has covered the detail in this news article on the hearings.

I like this quote from the article: "congressional sources have indicated that this could turn out to be “bigger than Watergate.”

Though this one made me reconsider how competent the people at DOJ are...

"Congressional sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, suggested that Justice Department and ATF officials started stonewalling because “they all thought this would go away.”

Yes, tell a Senator and Congressman to pound sand. Not only does that almost always make a problem go away, it works twice as good if you are a government agency that receives their budget and authorization from Congress.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old June 7, 2011, 08:02 PM   #231
alan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,745
Bartholomew Roberts wrote, among other things:

Though this one made me reconsider how competent the people at DOJ are...

I suspect not very.

As to telling a senator or congressman to "go pound salt", thought that was a Western Pennsylvania expression, and the thing will go away, I suppose it depends on which senator or congressman you are addressing.
alan is offline  
Old June 7, 2011, 10:28 PM   #232
Al Norris
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,318
David Codrea talks about the released list of witness, here.
Al Norris is offline  
Old June 7, 2011, 11:10 PM   #233
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,203
Is releasing a list of witnesses a good idea? What if they all have unfortunate accidents or are victims of random violence before the hearing?

(that wasn't too subtle, was it?)
__________________
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"
zxcvbob is offline  
Old June 9, 2011, 06:29 AM   #234
MTT TL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 1,801
More lovely news.

Quote:
Mexican police in late April raided a home in Ciudad Juarez, across the border from El Paso, Texas. They reported finding a cache that included two dozen AK-47-style rifles, three antiaircraft machine guns, dozens of grenades and more than 26,000 rounds of ammunition.

U.S. authorities have identified at least five Romanian-made AK-47-style rifles as having been purchased in the U.S. by suspects the ATF was tracking in the Fast and Furious operation. Documents from the ATF's National Tracing Center detail the makes and serial numbers of the firearms, their recovery in Mexico, and dates in 2009 and 2010 when the ATF entered them into a database of suspect guns.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/06...#ixzz1OmF1A2Xg

One of the few times in media reporting where the word "arsenal" was actually used correctly.

Good job ATF! way to go getting the media to finally report the news you have been wanting to hear. Too bad you got caught doing all the illegal stuff to make that happen.

However it does bring up the interesting points. Less than 20% of the weapons came from across the border. Where did the other 80% come from? Did the ATF sell them anti-aircraft guns and grenades also?
__________________
Proxima est Mors, Malum Nullum adhibit Misericordiam
MTT TL is offline  
Old June 9, 2011, 10:30 AM   #235
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT TL
However it does bring up the interesting points. Less than 20% of the weapons came from across the border. Where did the other 80% come from? Did the ATF sell them anti-aircraft guns and grenades also?
At this time, that remains under investigation and ATF has denied that they ever walked anti-aircraft guns across the border . . . [/joke]
__________________
A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills.

If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
Spats McGee is offline  
Old June 10, 2011, 08:07 AM   #236
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,699
Fox News has the hearing schedule for Wednesday's follow-up here:
Justice Officials in Panic Mode

It appears Assistant Attorney General Ronald Welch ("the agency did not let guns go south to Mexico") is scheduled to testify Wednesday after the members of Brian Terry's family and 3 ATF agents. Sounds like it will be some very awkward testimony for him.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old June 10, 2011, 11:14 PM   #237
alan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,745
Even by the standards of the ATF (BATFE), this sounds more and more like a criminal foul-up. They really screwed the pooch here, leaving this citizen wondering as to the following. How will this fiacso be covered up, for there will most certainly be a coverup, with all sorts of mud being slung. I also wonder as to how high the mud will reach.
alan is offline  
Old June 11, 2011, 02:42 AM   #238
aaalaska
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 14, 2007
Location: Palmer Ak
Posts: 319
I have noticed that any story at all takes the headlines away from this, on every news station, even fox .This story should top anything happening , the truth is this could go all the way to the top,and no one wants to report something that might go that far.
Alex
aaalaska is offline  
Old June 12, 2011, 04:08 PM   #239
alan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,745
aaalaska wrote:

I have noticed that any story at all takes the headlines away from this, on every news station, even fox .This story should top anything happening , the truth is this could go all the way to the top,and no one wants to report something that might go that far.
Alex

I hadn't noticed that, matter of fact, I hadn't noticed anything at all much about this ongoing BATFE screw-up, and Obama Administration involvement therein on or in "the general circulation media", mainstream television, radio or print "news". Come to think of it, I'm not all that surprised at the great crashing silence.

That having been said, I continue to wonder:

1. As to how high the mud spatter will climb, which is to say, how high in The White House?

2. Who, which or how many low level drones, aka bureaucratrs aka public employees will be sacrificed to shield those really responsible, those responsible hanging out at the highest levels of DOJ and The White House?

3. The following might be slightly off-point, however thinking on it might prove worth while. Re the financial debacle the nation suffers from still, and who was largely responsible therefore, how many of the Mavens of Finance, bank executives and Wall Street types have appeared before criminal grand juries? You have one guess, use it wisely.
alan is offline  
Old June 13, 2011, 10:37 AM   #240
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,699
Reminder: The House Oversight Committee will be streaming the Gunrunner hearings live at 1:00pm Eastern today at the following URL:
http://oversight.house.gov/

The subsequent hearings over the next few days should also be streamed live if anybody wants to watch DoJ officials squirm in real time.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old June 13, 2011, 12:25 PM   #241
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
A big thanks to you, Bart, for the heads up I did forget but been on since the first words of Issa!!!

Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old June 13, 2011, 03:13 PM   #242
NWdude83
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2008
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 351
Its getting serious now.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...ious-gun-case/
NWdude83 is offline  
Old June 13, 2011, 03:20 PM   #243
Dead
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 2000
Location: AoW Land, USA
Posts: 1,933
Seems like it, could the article point to how deep the rabbit hole goes?

A hearing in the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee is laying the groundwork to compel U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder and the head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to turn over documents related to "Operation Fast and Furious," a secret Obama administration program that put thousands of guns into the hands of Mexican drug cartels.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...#ixzz1PBncvrvA
__________________
Dead [Black Ops]
www.therallypoint.org
Dead is offline  
Old June 13, 2011, 04:20 PM   #244
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,699
Why am I getting the distinct feeling that Rep. Elijah Cummings primary purpose on the Oversight committee is to obstruct the actual oversight of Justice and help DoJ/ATF hide their tracks? Couldn't he have least been bothered to learn the name of Brian Terry? It isn't bad enough that he was running around the border with a beanbag loaded shotgun while ATF armed the people he had a duty to stop; but now they can't even get his name right in the Congressional hearings surrounding his death?
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old June 13, 2011, 05:57 PM   #245
HarrySchell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 30, 2007
Location: South CA
Posts: 553
BR, your distinct feeling is an excellent grasp of the obvious, IMO. IIRC, Cummings has never met a gun control law he didn't love, and anything Democrat must be defended against any slur or implication by whatever means he can conjur, regardless of its stupidity or factual basis. Surprised he isn't holding a fundraiser for little Tony Weiner to help him pay the overdue registration fees on his truck.

Brian Terry was a classic enemy of Cummings' "people". A LEO trying to do his job the right way and getting in the path of a Democrat constituency. How dare he?
__________________
Loyalty to petrified opinions never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul in this world — and never will.
— Mark Twain
HarrySchell is offline  
Old June 13, 2011, 11:01 PM   #246
alan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Posts: 3,745
The BATFE, and Obama"s DOJ might not quite be "rotten to the core", but they do come close.
alan is offline  
Old June 14, 2011, 06:50 AM   #247
publius42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2002
Posts: 1,888
Does anyone know how to find a transcript of the hearing?
publius42 is offline  
Old June 14, 2011, 07:13 AM   #248
publius42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2002
Posts: 1,888
Hearing homepage

Hearing video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf1wKawb6JI
publius42 is offline  
Old June 14, 2011, 12:10 PM   #249
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 10,427
Quote:
Does anyone know how to find a transcript of the hearing?
No. The gist of the first day is this:

Elijah Cummings told Issa that he should be happy with the documents the DoJ has already released. Issa complained that the documents provided were already in the public domain, and that they were too heavily redacted to be of any use.

Morton Rosenberg told Congress that, "the Department of Justice has the power to string out your investigation, refuse to obey it, and then when it's time for contempt...say all you can do is bring a civil action which will extend and delay your constitutional ability to enforce it."
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change.
--Randall Munroe
Tom Servo is offline  
Old June 14, 2011, 12:54 PM   #250
Don H
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2000
Location: SLC,Utah
Posts: 2,705
DoJ may wish to consider whether it has an alternate source of funding other than what Congress provides.
Don H is offline  
Reply

Tags
atf , fast and furious

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.38874 seconds with 8 queries