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Old February 9, 2011, 04:19 PM   #1
Nick9130White
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Mosin nagant accuracy.

I'd like to know what I could do to my mosin to get the best short range and long range accuracy.

I know some people doesn't think it's worth it, I think it is, why waste all that power?

If it's possible I'd like to have Enemy at the Gate accuracy. Doesnt matter the cost, Im just wondering.

Thank you,
-Nick
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Old February 9, 2011, 06:13 PM   #2
sirsloop
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Them sporterize it... bed the stock, chop off the front and lose the handguard, drill and tap the receiver for a scope, mount a base, rings, quality scope, mod your bolt to have bent handle, and have at it. If you find you are limited by surplus accuracy then start reloading 7.62x54R. You could also have the barrel recrowned which should help with accuracy.

People say don't do it because you can easily purchase a rifle that is better setup to accept a modern standard relief scope, does not need the bolt handle modded, and shoots much cheaper .308 ammunition.
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Old February 9, 2011, 06:40 PM   #3
jackpine
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You can get amazing accuracy if the bedding of your rifles stock is still solid. With match cases and match bullets you could get less than an inch at 100 yds.
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Old February 9, 2011, 06:44 PM   #4
Nick9130White
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What's bedding the stock and crowning it?
And what does it do?
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Old February 9, 2011, 07:00 PM   #5
sirsloop
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http://www.varminthunters.com/tech/bedding.html
http://hunting.about.com/cs/guns/a/float_bed.htm
http://riflestocks.tripod.com/targetcrown.html

read up!

I did #3 to my M44....Full contact bedding of the action with a pressure-bearing pad for the barrel. I have a factory crown on my barrel, although some barrels have been counterbored (recrowned) in arsenal.

more info about the MN crown..
http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinBarrel.htm

Last edited by sirsloop; February 9, 2011 at 07:11 PM.
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Old February 9, 2011, 07:37 PM   #6
Nick9130White
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Hell yea!
Thank you.
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Old February 9, 2011, 07:49 PM   #7
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yes Sirsloop, thank you very much! I had alot of the same questions and that info gave me alot of ideas and suggestions... thanks again!
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Old February 15, 2011, 07:48 AM   #8
prm
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Shoot it ~ you may be surprised.

I bought a 1944 carbine in unissued condition about 10 years ago. Cleaned up beautiful. For an open sighted rifle, mine is a lot more accurate than I am capable of shooting. While its no scoped sniper rifle, I would not hesitate to take game with it out to 100 yards. Yep, that's close for a rifle ~ but where I live most deer, hog, and black bear are taken at less than 50 yards.

I've been very happy with mine. Lot of fun to shoot and it definitely did not break the bank. I bought it for $60.
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Old February 15, 2011, 09:27 AM   #9
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What is accuracy?? What do you expect, what will a off the shelf Mosin do?

First of you must realize that "Enemy at the Gates" is a movie, granted, based on a real event as portrayed in the book, "Notes of a Russian Sniper", by Vassili Zaitsev. One must understand Military Snipers are not taught Head Shots, but center of mass, body, or the biggest target the enemy produces. This is portrayed in Zaitev's book, and confirmed in Joseph Pilyushin's book: "Red Sniper on the Eastern Front".

If one was to find a stack of Mosins at one of the box stores like Cabala's, Schells, etc, you can pick through the racks with a bore light, find a clean bore and find a fair bore. Clean it up and find some decent ammo and you can realistically find it will shoot 3 MOA groups.

Now we know the average person's size, shoulder to shoulder is right at 19 inches, (thats where the Army came up with the size of the E-Silhouette Target).

So we have a 3 MOA gun, and a 19 inch target. What does that mean. Assuming you can shoot as well as the rifle, you should be able to engage targets to 633 yards. Even if you only can get a 4 MOA Rifle, thats still 475 yards, thats beyond the average Military Sniper shot.

OK lets get realistic, we're not snipers, we shoot in competition, or plinking, Whatever, we shoot for fun.

The place Mosins and other vintage Military Rifle are fired are CMP GSM Games, or Vintage Military Rifle Matches, These are fired at 200 yards. The X-10 ring is 7 inches in diameter. If you have a 3.5 MOA gun you should be able to clean the targets. Even if you have a 6.5 MOA gun you should be able to keep them in the 9-10-X ring so we can assume you can fire 95%, (respectable and a winning score in most GSM matches).

The CMP Vintage Sniper Matches (using pre-1954 Sniper Rifles) use the 300 & 600 Yard NRA High Power targets. Again a 3 MOA gun is capable of cleaning those targets.

The thing is, you don't see that many cleaned targets at GSM Games, why?

My contention, if you want an accurate Mosin (or any other rifle), PRACTICE, dry fire and put rounds down range.

Accuracy isn't the rifle, its the shooter.
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Old February 15, 2011, 04:32 PM   #10
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My 91/30 will easily shoot shaving cream cans at 100 yards hasn't missed one yet. Haven't shot it at paper so I don't know it's MOA. I only shoot it when I'm screwing around which is what I bought it for.

kraigwy makes very good points, there's a big difference between Hollywood and reality. Military trains center mass. It's not worth forfeiting your position chancing a head shot. Most targets when missed will go to ground and now the hunter has become the hunted.
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Old March 7, 2011, 07:04 PM   #11
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I think being a successful sniper at Stalingrad was due more to being well-hidden, patient, and able to hit a torso at 150 versts than anything else.
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Old March 7, 2011, 07:37 PM   #12
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Without doing anything to your rifle, and assuming the barrel is in decent shape, the easiest way to improve the accuracy is with good ammuntion. The cheap military surplus ammo is often not very accurate.

Good quality ammo will go along way to making even a mediocre rifle more accurate. Beyond that, handloading, tailoring the ammo to the rifle will usually do even more.

Slug your barrel, so you know precisely what diameter it is. The 7.62x54R should be nominal .311-.312 groove diameter, but these rifles have been known to vary a lot from the standard.

To make the most accurate ammo pratical, match bullet to bore diameter is a basic first step. Then comes all the tricks with seating depth, and case consistancy.

Even rifles with "shot out" barrels, that shoot patterns instead of groups with jacketed ammo can often be turned back into accurate rifles (if with somewhat less power) using properly sized cast bullet loads.

Before you do a bunch of mods to your rifle (which may not be needed) shoot with some good quality ammo, for a baseline, if nothing else.

And another thing to look at , before you start worrying about bedding and all that, is simply, the trigger. Accuracy includes how well you can shoot the rifle, not just how well the rifle can shoot. A match barrel and a crappy trigger often won't outshoot a fair barrel and a good trigger. A good trigger means you can shoot it better (shoot better groups), the amount of difference can be amazing.
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Old March 8, 2011, 10:56 AM   #13
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Mosins are capable of some pretty amazing accuracy. My M44 will shoot 1" groups at 50yds, and under 2" at 100yds, using Sellier and Bellot 180gr softpoint ammo. And this with open sights and my over-50 eyesight. I've also been playing with cast boolits in it, and have had some pretty nice results, around 1.5" at 50yds.
I plan to scope it one of these days to see what it's really capable of doing. I wouldn't hesitate to take it deer or hog hunting as is.
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Old March 8, 2011, 11:22 PM   #14
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The rifle is only part of the equation. I have three M39 Finn Mosins. I've replaced the rear blade sight with an aperture sight. It's a vast improvement.

For me, the single greatest improvement is practice, practice, practice. Next to that was using a recoil shield so I could practice more without flinching...dang those metal buttplates can pack a whallop.

Buy lots of ammo while it is still cheap and widely available and shoot all you can. Once you can consistently shoot 2 to 2.5" groups at 100 yds with iron sights, then you can worry about tweaking the rifle. Anyone can shoot a MOA group off the bench with the right rifle, but the eyes bug out when you toss the rifle up, squeeze off an offhand shot in less than 3 seconds, and consistently hit a 6" gong at 100 yds with iron sights. That has a lot more to do with practice than anything else.
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Old March 9, 2011, 10:36 AM   #15
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[QUOTEBuy lots of ammo while it is still cheap and widely available and shoot all you can. Once you can consistently shoot 2 to 2.5" groups at 100 yds with iron sights, then you can worry about tweaking the rifle. ][/QUOTE]

I agree with this, but I have to point out that its really tough to shoot 2-2.5" groups using ammo that won't shoot that well. The cheap surplus ammo is literally, a crap shoot. Some of it is accurate, some is not. Some will be accurate in my rifle, but not in yours.

You just don't know to what standards foreign milsurp ammo was made, and (just as important) if the lot of ammo you bought actually meets those standards! Only shooting will tell, and a lot of people automatically blame the rifle when the real cause is often the ammo itself, or the combination of that particular ammo and that particular rifle.

If you are sure your rifle won't shoot well with anything, then its time to start modding the rifle. Not before.
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Old March 9, 2011, 01:34 PM   #16
twins
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The Russian 91/30 is accurate for a $100 "throw lead down field" rifle. As others have said, surplus ammo is great for that purpose. I've shot the Polish surplus ammo and they'll group 4-5 inches at 100 yards but the next group could be 6+ inches. Several cases cracked after firing and the coating on them could cause the dreaded "sticky bolt" problem.

+1 on using non-surplus and/or hand loads if you want to see how well your rifle shoots.

The Russian 91/30 is a solid rifle, but don't expect it to rival other milsurp for accuracy. Best bet for your milsurp $ will be a Finn 91/30, Swiss K-31, or Swede M96. You'll just play catch up with anything else.
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Old March 15, 2011, 08:22 PM   #17
5whiskey
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Quote:
Accuracy isn't the rifle, its the shooter.
I beg to differ here, although every man's definition of accuracy may vary. If I can't get better than 3 moa out of a rifle, I get very frustrated with it and leave it in the safe. Trust me, 3moa is well within my ability as a shooter, but is not within the ability of some (Cough, Cheap and poorly assembled AKs, Cough) rifles.

However, if the rifle is a good solid 2 to 2.5 moa with surplus ammoa and has decent iron sights... well then that's many a' afternoons fun at a 100 or 200 yard range.





Back on Topic. Mosin's can be a crap shoot as far as accuracy goes. If you get a good one, it's a ton of fun.
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Old March 16, 2011, 08:19 PM   #18
deerslayer303
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So you want an Accurate Mosin Nagant?

Buy an M39! That rifle is a Tack Driver! All jokes in the shade though, like others have said, sporterize that sucker! Trim and recrown the barrel. On my .303 hunting rifle I had 3 inches cut and had the muzzle crowned and recessed! After that where the gun used to shoot 1.5" groups at 100yrds it suddenly went to sub MOA. You gotta figure most mil surp rifles have had a ton of rounds run through them and the rifling at the very end of the barrel is worn. So Trimming, crowning and recessing the muzzle gives you fresh rifling at the muzzle. I paid to have my barrel work done it was 80 bucks.

Last edited by deerslayer303; March 16, 2011 at 08:25 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old March 17, 2011, 01:51 AM   #19
Ignition Override
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My new batch of pulled long x54R fmj (Non boat tail) bullets measure .311 with the caliper.
The +/- .01 grain digital scale indicates 150 grains.
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Old March 17, 2011, 02:00 AM   #20
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So Nick ... you want Hollywood film accuracy I hear you say? I see ...

My first question, before anything else is going to be ... "have you shot it yet?"

There are many ways to accurize Military bolt guns from yesteryear, that don't require butchery and altering the rifle from spec. My advice is this, if you haven't shot it and tested its accuracy before asking this question, you need to go do that first.

Get to the local range ... place the rifle on a sand bag, in a vice or use your mother in laws shoulder and experiment with ammo. Once you have your best group you will know what ammo the gun likes ( could save you slugging and matching the bore ). You need to assess what accuracy the rifle is capable of first ...

Tiki.
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Old March 17, 2011, 12:33 PM   #21
Jack O'Conner
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I sold this customized Mosin because of unemployment situation. It would typically shoot into a 3.5 inch group at 100 yards with Silver Bear soft tipammo.

Jack
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Old March 17, 2011, 03:34 PM   #22
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I've posted these before, but Mosins are capable of some impressive accuracy.. These were shot with Sellier and Bellot 180gr softpoints... the red target was 50yds, off sandbags, and the green target was 100yds off sandbags, open sights. Like I said, the biggest limiting factor is my over-50 eyesight. A scope should fix that.





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Old March 18, 2011, 09:39 PM   #23
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My Son and I both shoot his Mosin and my Finnish rifle.
With the issue sights we get fair accuracy but have problems with both of them shooting a little high. It suprised me that with the finish rifle seems to have very mild recoil for such a powerfull cartrige. Must be the stock design and extra heft.
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Old March 19, 2011, 01:22 PM   #24
Nick9130White
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I've taken it to the range and with Russian surplus I was getting them all in the 8" black circle at 100 yards. Nexttime I go I'll bring a lot of different types and weights and brands.
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Old April 1, 2011, 03:52 AM   #25
txpete
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my cast bullets.data on target.



AA5744 is another good powder


surplus hungarian ammo





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