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Old February 8, 2011, 10:35 AM   #1
Harry Callahan
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Question for trap snobs

All,

At the gun club I frequent I always see the beautiful Italian shotguns costing several thousand dollars. I'm not good enough(yet?)to justify spending that kind of scratch on a shotgun but did score a Remington 1100 Tactical 22" barrel, extended tube, primarily for HD. Came with 3 chokes. I was wondering if some would consider it somehow less than honorable if I managed to do well in a match while using this shotgun to shoot trap? On a side note I already own an 1100 30" Trap model and do very well with it but my son does even better with it(73/75)last time out with 50 straight, so he uses it more than me.
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Old February 8, 2011, 10:39 AM   #2
oneounceload
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You might want to check with your club regarding the barrel length - many places do not allow short barrels because of the noise. If not an issue, shoot what you have
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Old February 8, 2011, 11:08 AM   #3
gregjc9
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I'm not a trap snob, but I have shot a few rounds. As mentioned, if there are no rules against, use it and have a good time. I have a friend that regularily uses his Rem 870 with 18" barrel (IIRC), and does quite well with it.
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Old February 8, 2011, 11:15 AM   #4
zippy13
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Honor and/or snobbery have nothing to do with gun selection, it's all about proficiency. When your gun is the limiting factor in your performance, then it's time to shoot a gun more attuned to your abilities. I am by no means a trap shooter, yet I did shoot a few years of ATA trap to sharpen my skills. I started out with a Remington 1100 Trap model, like yours; but, exchanged it for an Italian combo before I'd completed my rookie year of competition. Several years earlier, I started NSSA competition with an entry level Japanese O/U skeet gun. I was good enough to get in Class-AA, but inconsistent. One of those beautiful Italian guns took my scores from 97s and 98s to 100-straights and into Triple-A from time to time. I haven't shot enough trap to find the B-gun a limiting factor in my performance.

Back to your 22" tactical barreled Remington 1100. I'm sure the trap shooters at your club would be happy to see you join in the competition* especially if you wanted to play all the purses and options.

*unless there's a club minimum barrel length. Some folks find the tactical guns on the loud side.
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Old February 8, 2011, 11:21 AM   #5
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I checked the ATA's rules - and there's nothing in the rules that would preclude the use of your shotgun. I would not expect a tactical shotgun to perform that well at the trap range. A short barrel like that would tend to create a wider spread than you'd want with trap.

As long as you're safe - I don't think anyone will fuss. (no loading the magazine - 1 target = 1 shot in the chamber - unless you're shooting doubles)

I learned to shoot trap at the local Izaak Walton league - using a hand-me-down Winchester 1912 - and nobody seemed to mind. (my shoulder minded!)

My squad leader had a nice $2500 Browning over/under. He let me try it a couple of times - but the Winchester fit me better, anyway.

I look forward to trying out my most recent acquisition: A Beretta A302
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Old February 8, 2011, 11:39 AM   #6
Harry Callahan
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zippy13,

Thanks for your response. However, there is no way I would consider getting in to a serious competition with a shotgun like a 22" Remington 1100. Just didn't want to be passing a shotgun back and forth between me and my son on the line. Gotta shoot something, right?
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Old February 8, 2011, 12:06 PM   #7
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For your intended use, the 1100's should work just fine. If you and your son starting shooting a lot more trap, you might consider another trap barrel and monte carlo stock for the tactical gun. That way, you can have a stock fitted to each shooter.

One aspect of target shooting that isn't discussed enough is reloading. You can bet those good ol' boys who are shooting at the range almost every day are generally reloaders. And, most reloaders find shooting with a hinge gun much easier in the ammo department -- no unsuspected jambs and no bending over to pick up hulls. The lady who owns a local restaurant is an avid 12-ga trap and 5-stand shooter, but she's never reloaded. At lunch yesterday, she was excited and told me she'd just acquired a new Browning 20/28-ga combo. She loves shooting the 28-ga, but hates the high ammo price. She admitted that after shooting only new 12-ga shells for years, she gonna get a MEC.
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Old February 8, 2011, 12:24 PM   #8
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I agree that you schould shoot what you have. Ive been around trap shooters for years and it seems they all have $10,000 guns. The funny thing is that i bought an old LEVER action 12 ga at a pawn shop and shot a 98 out of a hundred and got disqualified cause of the barrle lenght. I think it was because the other shooters where emberassed cause they got beat buy a guy with a $100 dollar gun. Ha,ha ha ha ha.
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Old February 8, 2011, 12:44 PM   #9
Mike Irwin
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Over the years I've ticked off some serious clay sport snobs by doing VERY well with either a pump gun or a run of the mill Remington semi-auto.

The BIG howls were reserved for when I'd pull out a 20" barreled Winchester pump gun. It was my standing corn pheasant gun. Had one guy tell me it shouldn't be allowed.

I told him he was just ****** because I'd done better with it than he had with his expensive Browning double and that he shouldn't be such a schmuck.

Things went downhill quickly after that.
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Old February 8, 2011, 01:05 PM   #10
zippy13
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The BIG howls were reserved for when I'd pull out a 20" barreled Winchester pump gun. It was my standing corn pheasant gun. Had one guy tell me it shouldn't be allowed.
Of course, nobody would have said squat had your Winchester pump been a M-12 pigeon grade trap gun.
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Old February 8, 2011, 01:59 PM   #11
bailey bud
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Quote:
Browning 20/28-ga combo
That is covered by the ATA rules --- it's not allowed in an ATA-sanctioned shoot.

I don't see anything in the ATA rules about minimum barrel length.
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Old February 8, 2011, 02:56 PM   #12
mwar410
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just make sure you bounce a few of those empty hulls off their heads and they won't be snobby about your barrel length.
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Old February 8, 2011, 03:06 PM   #13
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I've used tactical guns for skeet. Yeah, you get some strange looks from some and some friendly banter from others, but so long as the club allows it and you follow the rules, there's usually no issues.

As said, though, they're fine for using to get into it, but if you shoot much at all you are likely to outgrow it pretty quickly.
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Old February 8, 2011, 03:39 PM   #14
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Last year a guy beside me had a $7000 trap gun I was using my Mossberg 500 he got ****** cause i did better then him. I has happy as a pig in **** cause i did better. this year going to try my Saiga 12(looks like a AK-47) to do trap bet you i will get some looks with that. but i am there just to have fun. I look at it this way I am there to have fun if a person doesn't like what I am shooting and not breaking any rules or laws they can leave
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Old February 8, 2011, 04:15 PM   #15
zippy13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey bud
Quote:
Browning 20/28-ga combo
That is covered by the ATA rules --- it's not allowed in an ATA-sanctioned shoot.

I don't see anything in the ATA rules about minimum barrel length.

The ATA rules state (Section XIII, Part G.1 Guns and Ammunition): A contestant may not use a gun capable of chambering more than one gauge of shells at the same time. For example, chambering 12 gauge and 20 gauge shells in the same gun at the same time is prohibited. The NSSA and NSCA have a similar rule. The rules even prevent you from having another gauge shell on your person.

The combo gun in question is an O/U with a set of 20-ga barrels and a set of 28-ga barrels. Perhaps you were thinking of a barrel set with two different gauges. I don't believe such a beast is being manufactured for obvious safety reasons. Sorry for any confusion, but Browning calls the 20/28-ga two barrel set a combo in their catalog. Another typical combo set up is a 12-ga trap gun with a long solo barrel for singles and handicap and a shorter O/U set for doubles. My go-to trap gun is configured in that manner.

Short barrel restrictions are usually local club policy. I've never noticed a minimum barrel length in the NSSA Skeet nor ATA Trap rules. It's not necessary, if you're shooting national registered targets you're not going to handicap yourself using a short barrel. Of course, if a physical disability requires you to shoot a short barrel, I'm sure nobody will complain.

Although no dual gage barrel sets are manufactured. The problem of lodging a 20-ga shell in a 12-ga barrel is real. With the proliferation of shotgun barrel tubes, it's very possible for the tube gun shooter to configure his gun in 2 gauges. Without the safety rule, there will always be someone who thinks it would be swell to use a 20-ga for his first target in doubles followed by a 12-ga second shot.
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Old February 8, 2011, 04:28 PM   #16
Technosavant
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Quote:
this year going to try my Saiga 12(looks like a AK-47) to do trap bet you i will get some looks with that. but i am there just to have fun.
I like to use mine for skeet every now and then, and that's when I get the most looks (especially with the Kobra optic on it). Problem is, if you've done the stock/PG conversion to the thing a cheek weld can be hard to keep consistent and the rifle sights screw you right up.

But yeah, it IS fun.
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Old February 8, 2011, 04:43 PM   #17
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Maybe you need a new club, if they harass you for your choice of guns. My club could care less what you shoot, as long as it is safe. Large signs proclaim "ATA Rules Govern". We have several shooting common field grade guns and nobody cares. I shoot a Stouger O/U and nobody comments. Once, I had a small mechanical problem. Another member handed me his $10k Parrazi to finish the round (we are about the same size). Sweet gun once you get used to it but I'll continue on with the Stouger as I can't afford any more $ right now. It's more the shooter that the gun until you get way up in the skill level.
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Old February 8, 2011, 05:08 PM   #18
dakotashooter2
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Quote:
I checked the ATA's rules - and there's nothing in the rules that would preclude the use of your shotgun. I would not expect a tactical shotgun to perform that well at the trap range. A short barrel like that would tend to create a wider spread than you'd want with trap.

SERRIOUSLY????????????? If the gun has choke tubes, a skeet (or whatever) tube is gonna throw the same pattern whether it is a 20" barrel or a 28" barrel.

Note: there are "snobs" in every sport. While quality equipment can make a difference most of the time its 95% increase in cost will only gain you 1% in performance. If a gun fits you and functions propertly as long as you do your job you will shoot well, whether it is a $500 gun or a $100,000 gun. The snobs just don't like to face the fact that it is them and not the equipment that is the problem......................
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Old February 8, 2011, 05:39 PM   #19
bailey bud
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Zippy - brain fart on my part...... mea culpa.

Yup -- that 20/12 ga combo has likely blown up its fair share of firearms.
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Old February 8, 2011, 05:44 PM   #20
zippy13
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It's my understanding that most of the short HD barrels have fixed cyl chokes. They are dyn-o-mite on Skeet targets but hard pressed are anything much further. I recall when a newby was blaming all of his missed Skeet targets on his HD gun. The guy was whining more than a freshly weaned puppy. For the next round, our club president got a surplus riot gun from his truck and ran the next 25 targets. Just because he could shoot the short barrel, it wasn't his choice when the score counted.
Quote:
Note: there are "snobs" in every sport. While quality equipment can make a difference most of the time its 95% increase in cost will only gain you 1% in performance.
In a tournament that 1% is the difference between a 100-straight and a 99. Do you wanna be the champ or a chump?
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Old February 8, 2011, 05:46 PM   #21
shogan191
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With the loss of clubs of late and the need for new shooter, I don't imagine anyone with any sense would care what you shot as long as it was legal and within club and ATA rules.

If you got it and like it, shoot it.
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Old February 8, 2011, 05:48 PM   #22
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The short barrel has nothing to do with the pattern, but it does hamper good swings on the targets
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Old February 8, 2011, 05:58 PM   #23
zippy13
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Maybe you need a new club, if they harass you for your choice of guns. My club could care less what you shoot, as long as it is safe.
Often the club noise restrictions are due to outside pressures. The club I shot at while in college was out past the edge of town, now it's surrounded by homes. Now, if there's any shooting one minute after 10:00 pm or a minute before 8:00 am, rest assured someone will call the sheriff. The new neighbors would love to force the range to go away.

Last edited by zippy13; February 9, 2011 at 01:10 PM. Reason: I forgot to hit some keys and mis-hit some others
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Old February 9, 2011, 08:53 PM   #24
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I am a Trap Snob so listen to me

There is a certain level of decorum expected on a Trap Line. I mean specifically in a league. At a country club. In a match. With a club.

And some of the best shooting I've done when not using one of my work-of-art Miroku's (I have a 34" single and a 30" doubles O/U) or a laminated nickel-steel Browning BT-99 Special have been with a Mossberg 500 (with which I made Distinguished Expert), a Mossberg 590 Military & Police, and an HK/Benelli pistol-grip semi-auto.

Understand the situation, take the good-natured ribbing as well as not-so-good whispers, and make the most of it!

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Old February 9, 2011, 09:05 PM   #25
oneounceload
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Zippy made an excellent point which has been mentioned before - my local club is in the same scenario -NO shooting before 8:30, or after 5:00 - nada, zip, nil

and short barrels, while not exactly verboten, are frowned upon because of the noise issue
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