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Old February 7, 2011, 04:15 PM   #1
hornetguy
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semi-wadcutter vs. round flat

Does anyone have any practical experience with the relative "smack" differences between a traditional semi-wadcutter bullet and the newer styles called the RF, or round, flat nose bullets?
It seems to me that the larger meplat of the RF would make it a better stopper, for either 4-legged or 2-legged animals.
Specifically, I want to start casting for a .38 special, short barrel, and want to cast a relatively soft 150-158gr bullet. It also seems like the RF would be easier to drop into the chambers without hanging on the shoulder.

open for discussion...
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Old February 7, 2011, 11:36 PM   #2
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I have shot both and SWC will give better straight line penetration but any meplat is better than no meplat. I like SWC better and for the .38 special a regular wadcutter is even better in my opinion for terminal effect.
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Old February 7, 2011, 11:47 PM   #3
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All things considered, if you're casting for defense load on this, I would say go with the one that the handgun prefers and deals the best accuracy. If your grain weight and caliber are the same or very close, it's going to come down to alloy to finish off your performance expectations--not so much the nose shape.
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Old February 8, 2011, 06:30 AM   #4
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In my exp the Lee rnfp was easier to get it to shoot in my revolvers & it does handle somewhat easier with speedloaders , but in total terminal effect I feel the swc has an edge .
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Old February 8, 2011, 09:19 AM   #5
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I think a full calibre meplat may be the better stopper.
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Old February 8, 2011, 09:29 AM   #6
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maybe someone can edumacate me on how to do "quotes" on this forum.. I can't seem to find out how...

anyway... on your "full meplat", Salvadore, do those stabilize ok out to 50yds or so?
I had thought about some of the wadcutters that have a little bit of nose to them, instead of the double ended type. I have an RCBS two cavity wadcutter, but it's the double ended type. Maybe I should trade it for one with the nose.
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Old February 8, 2011, 09:40 AM   #7
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Rangefinder...
I agree about the alloy being a major influence... I plan on casting very soft. Let's face it... at 850 fps or so, you could probably use pure lead with no problems.
I just have heard nearly all my life about the very poor performance of the round nose 38's... so I know that a big square front (meplat area) is probably going to be a big factor, as well.
Wadcutters may be the ticket. This isn't ever going to be a long range target kind of thing. Probably 15-30 yards would be the most I'd ever be doing while out meandering in the woods.
Plus, if I could HIT a rabbit/skunk/whatever at 30 yds with a snub, I'd be borderline amazed... I imagine most targets will be those sneaky, dangerous horse apples...
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Old February 8, 2011, 09:40 AM   #8
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Me neder !!!! I just do the cut&paste thing !

A WC makes a mean hole , some times we shoot into a bank of mud 30-35yds away & a full WC is the only thing that blew mud back on anybody & it made the biggest hole also !!!

For short range it`ll more than suffice !!!
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Old February 8, 2011, 10:42 AM   #9
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Salvadore keeps showing off one of the most beautiful bullets I have ever seen. For sure, you don't want to get in the way of that freight train.
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Old February 8, 2011, 10:45 AM   #10
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"Maybe I should trade it for one with the nose." No keep that wadcutter. The full profile is both devestating and inherently accurate.
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Old February 8, 2011, 12:04 PM   #11
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"Maybe I should trade it for one with the nose." No keep that wadcutter. The full profile is both devestating and inherently accurate.

What I meant was, maybe I should trade my double ended wadcutter for a wadcutter that has a slight "nose" to it, like some of them do.... instead of both ends being identical. I'll see if I can find pics of what I mean..
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Old February 8, 2011, 12:14 PM   #12
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ok.. one pic is of a double ended, probably 38 wadcutter.
the other is a mold showing a 44 wadcutter with the little "nose" I was talking about.. I've seen wadcutters with different variations of the "nose". I think I'd like that one better than the double ended one I have the mold for.





Conversely.... if I used the DE one, I could use the non-sprue end for the base, and probably get slightly better accuracy potential.

decisions, decisions....
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Old February 16, 2011, 12:25 PM   #13
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Hornetguy, sorry for the untimely reply, but I hadn't shot that bullet @ 50yds until yesterday. I used a model 21 Smith since the Colt is being worked on, and they made nice round holes.
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Old February 16, 2011, 01:06 PM   #14
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That one might just be the ultimate "impact" bullet from a 38. Who makes that mold, if you don't mind my asking?

I guess I could buy a Lee mold and chuck it up in a lathe and make my own...
How much does the bullet weigh?
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Old February 17, 2011, 10:28 AM   #15
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It's a single cavity Ideal mold #429352 that casts about 250grs with my alloy. A previous owner had modified it with a couple of vent lines. I also have a modern bond knock off of Lyman's 358344 which is almost an identical design as the .44 except it has two grease grooves. I plan on loading it non +p for my Colt Cobra.

I agree with you concerning its nearly full calibre meplat, which rhymes with splat.
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Old March 31, 2011, 02:53 AM   #16
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Can someone help me and point me towards a good site to purchase cast SWC for loading on my Dilon XL 650. I have a bunch of brass and have not loaded any 38 Specials t. I usually load 9mm and 45 ACP.
I am shooting a 2 inch barrel J frame and want a comfortable load to shoot.
Lymans 49th has a lot of load data for cast bullets and I would like to start loading these as I use this pistol for S.D. in the winter as it is easy to carry with a pocket holster with a winter coat. I have a laser on it and it is a fun little gun to shoot. I usually shoot 1911 9mm and 45ACP So I need to buy all of the dies and tool head. I like shooting this little revolver and want to start doing it with out the price of buying boxes of 50 new pre-loaded.
Thanks for the help
Bob
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Old March 31, 2011, 08:08 AM   #17
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For self defense you want a good hard cast like Beartooth bullets http://www.beartoothbullets.com/ or Oregon Trails Laser Cast http://www.laser-cast.com/ or Penn Bullets (get the harder alloy) http://www.pennbullets.com/
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Old March 31, 2011, 08:37 AM   #18
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Not to be argumentative, I've been thinking that at snub .38 special velocities (800-850fps) you could/should use a very soft alloy to get any kind of upset in the target. I keep thinking of the old muzzleloaders shooting round, pure lead bullets at relatively low velocity, that would punch all the way through game animals and be a big flattened piece of lead on the other side.
I know that for several years, the most recommended load for .38 special was the Federal Nyclad, which was basically a pure lead bullet with a soft nylon coating to help keep "lead vapors/dust" down.
These are just random musings on my part... what do you guys think?
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Old March 31, 2011, 08:47 AM   #19
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The "FBI load" 158 grain .38 special +P LSWC hollowpoints sold by Remington are very soft lead. I believe it requires pretty soft lead to ensure expansion at .38 special velocities. If you depend on the wide meplat and no expansion then I guess the harder the better. I'm sure there are tests favoring each design.
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Old March 31, 2011, 08:54 AM   #20
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Don't know abut "flat round" bullets, haven't used them. But I do know 150 grn SWCs (Lyman 358477) work out of a 357, 4" Model 28 Smith, on Moose.



Same bullet & gun works on Buffalo too, (don't let the rifle fool you, I just used the rifle to make the picture look good--long story).

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Old April 26, 2011, 10:30 AM   #21
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That is a nice looking moose, it looks like its demise involved a road.
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Old April 26, 2011, 12:08 PM   #22
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Lead semi-wadcutter will be more effective, transfer more shock to living tissue. Casting them soft will allow them to expand, but expansion is not needed. The wider the meplat, the more effective they will be.

To quote someones post you do this; Left click with your cursor next to the text you wish to quote. Move the cursor over the text, it will show up blue. After you have highlighted,(made it blue), right click next to the blue text. A box will show up, click copy in that box. That puts the text in your clipboard on your computer.

Now go to post reply for the thread you're viewing. At the top of the reply box is a tool bar, look for the icon that looks like a page of text with a balloon around it. Left click on that icon, the quote line will show up on the reply area of the page. Looks like this
Quote:
----
Now right click again that window will show up, this time click paste, the text you copied will go between the QUOTEs . Viola, you just quoted someone or something!

Quote:
Not to be argumentative, I've been thinking that at snub .38 special velocities (800-850fps) you could/should use a very soft alloy to get any kind of upset in the target. I keep thinking of the old muzzleloaders shooting round, pure lead bullets at relatively low velocity, that would punch all
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Last edited by snuffy; April 26, 2011 at 10:29 PM.
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Old April 26, 2011, 09:42 PM   #23
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PHP Code:
Lead semi-wadcutter will be more effectivetransfer more shock to living tissueCasting them soft will allow them to expandbut expansion is not neededThe wider the meplatthe more effective they will be.

To quote someones post you do thisLeft click with your cursor next to the text you wish to quoteMove the cursor over the textit will show up blueAfter you have highlighted,(made it blue), right click next to the blue textA box will show upclick copy in that boxThat puts the text in your clipboard on your computer.

Now go to post reply for the thread you're viewing. At the top of the reply box is a tool bar, look for the icon that looks like a page of text with a balloon around it. Left click on that icon, the quote line will show up on the reply area of the page. Looks like this Now right click again that window will show up, this time click paste, the text you copied will go between the QUOTEs . Viola, you just quoted someone or something!

Quote: 
If this works thanks I have been here for a while and could not figure it out
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Old April 26, 2011, 10:45 PM   #24
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Quote:
To quote someones post you do this; Left click with your cursor next to the text you wish to quote. Move the cursor over the text, it will show up blue. After you have highlighted,(made it blue), right click next to the blue text. A box will show up, click copy in that box. That puts the text in your clipboard on your computer.
OK. Got it, but how do you put the person you are quoting's name at where the quote is?
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