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Old March 5, 2013, 11:38 AM   #76
mayosligo
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Why does every one hate the XD grip safety

Interesting point about the grip safety if you find yourself in a struggle. This works both ways too. There is less if a chance you may be shot with your own gun if someone tries to grab it from
You and you are struggling to retain it. Triggers can be pressed from different angles and grips so the grip safety could end up helping you as much as hindering. Just depends on the situation , as with all firearms. For the record, I like it. It makes me work in my grip.
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Old March 5, 2013, 12:34 PM   #77
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To my knowledge this was only really an issue with earlier generation Glocks and mostly in 40SW. I am not aware of Glock having any more problems with its 45 ACP line than any other manufacturer out there. If you just don't like Glocks I can understand, neither do I, but I don't think your current concern is one that is honestly an issue.
Thanks - I appreciate the info.
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Old March 5, 2013, 01:14 PM   #78
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A little late to the party here but I'll chime in. The number one issue for me is the fact that you have to depress the grip safety to rack the slide. This is a no-go for me on a defensive weapon for a miriad of reasons which should be pretty obvious. Also, as others have mentioned its just another part that could break and if it does you are left with a gun you cannot rack the slide on.

If Springfield would change the function of the grip safety on the XD/XDm line like they did on the XDs where you don't have to depress the grip safety to rack the slide I think that you would see more training professionals and LEO's jump on board with the XD. The current design is prohibitive to serious work in my book.
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Old March 5, 2013, 01:17 PM   #79
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Re: Why does every one hate the XD grip safety

Everyone hates it? That's news to me. I shot one the other day and didn't think about it.

Trigger was weird to me but over all I liked the gun.
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Old March 5, 2013, 01:23 PM   #80
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This is a no-go for me on a defensive weapon for a miriad of reasons which should be pretty obvious.
For argument's sake would you mind sharing those reasons?

Quote:
The current design is prohibitive to serious work in my book.
What's your definition of "serious work"?
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Old March 5, 2013, 01:35 PM   #81
TacticalDefense1911
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For argument's sake would you mind sharing those reasons?
There are alot of one handed manipulations where you may not have a perfect grip on the gun which may make it impossible for you to rack the slide of your XD. Also, if you sustain an injury to your hand where you cannot hold the pistol as you normally would you may not be able to depress the grip safety as well as awkward shooting positions where you may have a less then ideal grip on your firearm. There are just alot of weird things that can and have happened during dynamic movement and if you have the chance to eliminate a potential issue that may occur with your hardware wouldn't it make sense to do so?

Quote:
What's your definition of "serious work"?
Home defense, concealed carry, law enforcement, etc... If the gun is simply a range toy these issues have little merit and the XD seems to be an accurate gun with a pretty good trigger out of the box.
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Old March 5, 2013, 01:37 PM   #82
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In my experience...

When shooting the XD, I found the grip safety to be awkward due to its small/thin profile. It was hard to tell, by feel, as to whether or not the safety was fully disengaged when shooting.


Quote:
That has not been my experience. I find the grip safety on the XD MUCH more foolproof than the 1911 grip safety.

I have never even once had an XD fail to fire from an improper grip. I can't say that about 1911's.
Please define the context of "foolproof" here. The gun mechanism's design functionality or the shooter's ability to grip the weapon?

A grip safety, by design, prevents a gun from firing if you have improper or inadequate grip on the gun. If the gun doesn't fire because the shooter has an improper/inadequate grip... one might suggest that the grip safety mechanism is technically functioning.
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Old March 5, 2013, 01:48 PM   #83
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There are alot of one handed manipulations where you may not have a perfect grip on the gun which may make it impossible for you to rack the slide of your XD.
In my experience you need far from a perfect grip on the gun in order for it to fire. I can get it to fire with just my thumb and index finger for shooting. If I loose any more digits than that due to injury idk what my options are anyway.

Quote:
There are just alot of weird things that can and have happened during dynamic movement and if you have the chance to eliminate a potential issue that may occur with your hardware wouldn't it make sense to do so?
I wouldn't argue against that at all, it's sound logic. Course by the same logic we can say that any gun with a manual safety is a bad choice, same for long trigger pulls, exposed hammers, etc, etc.

Quote:
Home defense, concealed carry, law enforcement, etc... If the gun is simply a range toy these issues have little merit and the XD seems to be an accurate gun with a pretty good trigger out of the box.
I see nothing about the XD/XDm line that would make me question its use in a home defense or concealed carry fashion, but to each his own.
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Old March 5, 2013, 03:15 PM   #84
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umm, I don't.

I find it, compared to a Glock, a reassuring feature when reholstering. JMO
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Old March 5, 2013, 03:24 PM   #85
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I've only read the posts on page one and this one. So far I've missed seeing one of the main reasons the XD/XDm has grip safety in the first place and that's to keep the pistol from going out of battery when holstered and then drawing with an out of battery pistol. It's also there to prevent what's referred to as "Glock Leg". Since you're not engaging the grip safety when you holster, there's no chance for the trigger to get caught on something and discharge.

As far as the LE market, Glock sells to police departments at near giveaway prices. They do that for the market value it has with civilian shooters who want to carry what the police do. Since Springfield Armory is an importer for HS Produkt, they simply don't have the margins to compete in the LE market and they don't even try, but you will find departments that have XD/XDm pistols on their approved list.

I have the XDm 4.5 in .45 ACP and consider it superior to the other polymer framed pistols I've ever considered buying like the G21, FN FNP-USG, M&P, and H&K USP. I didn't consider the HK 45 because of its nearly $1000 price tag. It is simply too expensive for a polymer framed pistol.

The design of the XDm's trigger allows it to be easily enhanced with a PRP or Springer trigger kit. Mine has the best trigger I've ever had on a service pistol and you can completely eliminate overtravel. Something not easily done with the competitiors. They can all be enhanced but to my knowledge, the M&P and Glock being more similar to a DAO trigger don't allow for an overtravel provision. The H&K can, but try to find someone that does a good job improving the trigger and consider the price paid for the pistol with a trigger job and the XDm comes out smelling like a rose.

I shoot as many cast lead SWCs as I do JHPs. The XDm has a "Match Grade" barrel with conventional rifling. Much better for shooting lead than a polygonal bore and my XDm is extremely accurate.
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Old March 5, 2013, 06:33 PM   #86
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I believe the reason many 1911's have speed bumps is also the reason many of them have front cocking serrations and FLGR's. It's all about the show, not the go. I personally hate a speed bump on 1911 grip safety because I don't like the way it presses into my hand. I find them completely useless, and much prefer the bumpless ones.
I can't agree with you on the 1911 speed bump issue. For me it makes the 1911 better. However, I like arched mainspring housings. With the arched mainspring housing [1911a1 style, not 1911 style of flat] I was occasionally getting a failure to fire with my 1911 unless I gave it a deathgrip, which affected my accuracy.

I swapped out a speed bump style grip safety and the problem disappeared, while leaving the grip safety blocking the trigger enough to be safe. I could have changed the grip safety engagement surface to solve this problem, but then it really wouldn't have been much of a grip safety.


The XD grip safety is a non-issue to me. I can live with it or without it. The detail on the XD that IS an issue for me [and only me: I am not slamming the design, but identifying my personal reason for not caring to own one] is the perceived higher bore axis.

To be simple, the barrel and slide just feel like they sit too high above my hand, for some reason.
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Old March 5, 2013, 07:19 PM   #87
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See, I just don't get the whole "higher bore axis" thing. Hold a cocked XD/XDm in a shooting grip and then look at where the cocked status indicator is. Bore axis may not be quite as low as the Glock's, but it looks pretty low compared to DA autoloaders, particularly the SIG/Sauer P-220 which seasoned SIG shooters hardly ever complain about. The much heavier front rails of the XD/XDm make those on the Glock and H&K appear to be miniscule. Whatever height difference between the XD/XDm vs. Glock is a direct result of the much more substantial rails on the XDm, which BTW, are integral to the locking block ala SIG, and are replaceable, if ever necessary.

To me, my XDm is very easy shooting and just this past Sunday I fired 185 gr. +P Golden Sabers through it and recoil was just barely more noticeable than shooting standard pressure 230 gr. JHPs. Not much to speak of, and the polymer frame does absorb a good bit of it. Fired the same rounds through my shooting partners all steel Combat Commander and recoil was definitely higher than shooting that same load in my XDm.
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Old March 5, 2013, 07:40 PM   #88
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I am not claiming that anyone else should care about the bore axis thing [which is my issue: not the worlds'].

That said, I sold my Sig P220 Combat because my accuracy was worse with that than any 1911 I've fired, worse than my Ruger P97 [not a slouch in the whole bore axis component either], and worse than the M&P .45. I haven't fired a Glock .45 [is that the model 21?] for comparison. I was even worse than the H&K USP.45compact.

I sold the Sig and H&K.

All I was really attempting to do is identify that what is a personal quirk for one person is NOT an indictment of the gun. My father has one and loves it [.40, I believe: he's in another state.]. I know people at the range who have them and love them.

I personally have enough other options that work very well and feel better in my hand: so I've never bothered to spend money on another good design that just doesn't sit right with me.

However, what is my issue is just that: MY issue. I am NOT claiming anything about the performance of the Xd lineup. All I know about the performance is good things, from word of mouth. But I have enough 9mm/.40S&W/.45acp semi-auto handguns [for now]. I find the 1911 and BHP to fit my hands better than almost anything else I've tried.

If someone gave me an Xd, and I didn't have so many bills to pay, I'd try it and keep it. From what I've read/heard, I have no problem recommending it to others as a life saving tool. I'd just prefer something else, for PURELY personal reasons.

But heck, I dislike Apple products also. I like Android platform devices, so what do I know.

[btw, I won't talk any more about the bore axis here. I was just trying to identify that everyone has personal tastes, and they are all different. Thankfully, we have choices! for now ]
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Old March 5, 2013, 08:21 PM   #89
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Hold a cocked XD/XDm in a shooting grip and then look at where the cocked status indicator is. Bore axis may not be quite as low as the Glock's, but it looks pretty low compared to DA autoloaders, particularly the SIG/Sauer P-220 which seasoned SIG shooters hardly ever complain about.
I couldn't agree more. I think bore axis is a term that is beaten to death in the gun rags. Is the physical difference between say a SIG and a Glock noticeable in terms of bore axis? Yes. Will a shooter notice that difference in shooting? Possibly, a lot depends on his/her experience. Does that difference make the SIG at an inherent disadvantage? IMHO, no. If someone shoots a SIG better than a Glock, let them shoot the SIG. Now if you're debating models that are all else equal except for bore axis, a situation very hard to find, and the shooter is indifferent in terms of personal preference, then sure bore axis can be a deciding factor. But I can think of a dozen or so factors before bore axis that will likely make even more of a difference.
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Old March 5, 2013, 08:52 PM   #90
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To me it's built so cheesy.
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Old March 6, 2013, 06:01 AM   #91
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It doesn't feel like a 1911 safety, nor is it shaped like a 1911 safety. It doesn't work the same way like a 1911 safety (the XD series is not a hammer fired SAO with a thumb safety).

I feel like someone put a grip safety on a Glock because SA makes 1911s and they thought it was cool. To me it's stupid and unnecessary.

I also find myself holding XD guns higher and tighter than I want, putting the web of my thumb at risk, to reliably engage the GS. There's a reason nearly all of my 1911s have BGS.
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Old March 6, 2013, 08:43 AM   #92
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I hate ALL grip safeties. I honestly don't understand why folks put up with these things. Maybe for looks on a classic 1911 - nostalgia, I suppose.

But on a modern design, to me it's like putting a HUGE chamber-indicator-child-lock in a place that you actually have to touch. Folks complain about Ruger's little chamber indicator (which I don't care much for either), but compared to a grip safety, the chamber indicator is not an issue.

Last edited by JohnKSa; March 6, 2013 at 11:08 PM. Reason: .
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Old March 6, 2013, 09:14 AM   #93
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I am a new XD owner, but not new to handguns as I have been shooting for over 40 years now. Usually my preferred auto is a 1911 and in all the years I have been shooting them, I have never had a problem with the grip safety. If I was having troubles it was related to ammo or limp wristing after a long day at the range.

Just for grins I checked the pressure it takes to depress the grip safety on my new XD and it is so minimal, that I can't imagine a situation where you would be unable to hang on to the gun and fire it without having enough purchase to push the safety on. Of course, I am sure there are those out there that can come up with some kind of wildly improbable scenario that would include such a thing, but I think it would be pretty far fetched.

As to the so-called issue with the height of the barrel axis, I measured the distance from the centerline of the firing pin indicator on my XD and the centerline of the firing pin on one of my 1911's and they were essentially the same. Maybe that is why I found that I can shoot the XD so well. It feels more like my beloved .45's than the other plastic pistols I have shot.
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Old March 6, 2013, 09:32 AM   #94
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I feel like someone put a grip safety on a Glock because SA makes 1911s and they thought it was cool.
Except SA didn't design the XD, it's a licensed design.
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Old March 6, 2013, 09:51 AM   #95
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I'm the first person to respond to this thread, back in 2011. At that time I had an XD45...Loved it, awesome gun. But my opinion has kind of changed. Nothing to do with why I sold it. My Glock 21 just took over it.

They're certain guns that I just don't take serious to carry and depend my life on. Not saying that XD is bad in any way. But the PPQ that I gave away, and the XD45 that I sold. For some reason I just wasn't too...serious with them.

At the time I was in Liberty City. With the Glock 21sf IWB at 4:00 and 2 spare mags at 8:00. If I needed to draw, I needed to draw fast and adequate enough to grip the gun properly for it to fire. I never had an issue with the XD in this. But didn't want to try. I have training with SIG and Glock under stress. Didn't see a need to make sure to grip the gun 100% properly, when what I'm trained with doesn't require that.

So the .45 everyone else had, I went with. Sold the XD45...I regret it. Cause it was a fun range gun to me. But needed to for something. I think for a 1911 of some kind.


All depends what you like.


My above posted is why I don't like it for serious use.


YMMV
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Old March 6, 2013, 10:01 AM   #96
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My biggest issue is that it prevents the gun from firing except when a proper grip is taken. Since I can't be assured I'll have a proper grip all the time, I'd prefer not to have it. I'm fully aware of the fact that 99.7% of the time, I'll be able to have a proper grip on a gun I'm using in SD, but if I can get a gun that, when handled properly, is just as safe as an XD, I'll carry that instead.
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Old March 6, 2013, 11:52 AM   #97
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As I've said I totally understand the people that have concerns with the grip safety and I think most of those concerns are valid, though I did want to reiterate something.

I handle my firearms a lot, notably dry firing for hours each day (my wife works nights). In my handling with the XD/XDm line I have made an effort to see at what points the grip safety won't engage. I would do this with live ammo, but 1. it's not exactly advisable 2. I don't have a private range and I am not going to put others at risk. In all my efforts the only times I have been able to get the grip safety to not engage are when I have an extremely loose hold on the firearm.

Now you might say, "you're not always going to get a perfect grip". And frankly you're right. But there's a big difference between "not perfect" and what I've personally seen. The times when the safety won't engage I have such a loose hold on the firearm that regardless of whether or not it was an XD/XDm I imagine one of the two things would happen: 1. I would get a limpwrist malfunction 2. I might actually lose my grip on the firearm entirely and drop it. To me these are facts that lessen my concern over the grip safety. As far as, "what if your hand is injured?". As I mentioned above, I can get the grip safety to engage with only using my thumb and index finger to actuate the firearm (though at that point I transition the firearm to my off hand anyway, but if both my hands get shot yes I can still pull the trigger).

If people choose to not use the XD/XDm line, I completely understand. But for others out there interested in it, I hope my comments help.
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Old March 6, 2013, 12:21 PM   #98
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Let me expand on what I was saying. If it was between exactly equal guns, except one had a grip safety, and one didn't, I would choose the one without, for the reasons I explained earlier.

However, I do like XD's, they're good guns, but there are a variety of reasons, the grip safety being one of them, why I don't carry one. I don't like the grip, being the #1 reason. The ease of removing the sights being another. I just prefer the Glock. Even if the XD didn't have a grip safety, I'd still shoot a Glock. However, if the sights were easier to remove and I liked the grip of the XD, I'd probably shoot that instead, in spite of the grip safety. But that comes down to preference.

I don't like grip safeties, but I also know the situations where it would be a hindrance are very, very rare.
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Old March 6, 2013, 12:28 PM   #99
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And again I'm not saying there is anything wrong with preferring something else. I am not the biggest fan of grip safeties either. But the last two 9mm Glocks I have owned have spit hot brass right into my face. Idk about you but I don't wear safety glasses when conceal carrying, so that's not something that thrills me and in that case I choose the grip safety. M&Ps are good too, I just hate the way the backstraps make a bulge at the back of the grip and the last one I owned would start failing to feed once it got dirty. I don't hate the SR9c, but between manual safety and grip safety I choose grip safety.

Simply put, the XDs and XDms I've owned have been more reliable than any of the Glocks or M&Ps I've owned. I know there are plenty of happy owners of those firearms so I have nothing against those models. But right now I go with what my personal experience has lead me to, that's all.
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Old March 6, 2013, 12:37 PM   #100
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People don't like grip safeties for a number of reasons.

Some talk about one hand manipulation drills, yet they can all be done with an XD/M/S.

People complain about not being able to shoot it without a proper grip, yet I've shot the XD/M/S loose enough where it would almost fly out of my hand. I can grip low enough on the XD/M/S grip that I can't reach the trigger, yet the grip safety is still depressed.

People complain about the grip safety because they don't know it's purpose or the type of gun it's on. The XD/M/S striker is more ready to go (basically single action) than a Glock. The grip safety blocks the sear, unlike a 1911 grip safety that people think does the same function. Basically, who here would carry a cocked and locked 1911 with the thumb safety removed? Who has removed it and carried that way? Anyone?

Reholstering is nice since you can put your thumb on the back of the slide, letting the grip safety do it's thing. You should replace worn out gear, but if some flap, strap, jacket end, draw string or loose holster piece gets trapped in the trigger guard as you push the gun back in the holster, the gun will not discharge.

I've owned 7 XDs, 1 XDM, 1 XDS, 12 1911s and lots of handguns without grip safeties and never hand a problem either way. I like a passive sear block over a manual one, but I prefer some sort of real safety over just some tab in the trigger that is more a drop safety than anything else.
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