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Old June 6, 2011, 12:37 PM   #76
TheKlawMan
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Great input. The guy demonstrating the MECs at the Shooting Sports Fair emphasized the collett type resizer on all of the MECs other than the Jr, which resizes with a ring. I fo course am looking at some used ones and there is one that looks good with a primer feed.

I checked out recob's and it does have good prices and reasonable shipping. Combined they are $10 less than the price list I got at the fair, but that didn't include shipping.

As for hunting, I look forward to trying that some time but if needed I can buy shells for that.

And I have already figured out that I will likely want a one ounce shot bar and another powder bushing.
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Old June 6, 2011, 02:55 PM   #77
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My first .410-bore loader was a used MEC 600 Jr, but I didn't shoot much little gun in those days. When I got serious about the .410, I bought a new Grabber and sold the 600 Jr for what I'd paid for it. Buying a used 600 Jr is probably a good way to get into shot shell re-loading. After you've become totally familiarized with re-loading, you may wish to up grade to a higher capacity loader and pass on the 600 Jr at no loss.
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Old June 6, 2011, 02:58 PM   #78
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Re-Sizing is really important on any gun ....like a pump or semi-auto where you are feeding shells into the action out of a magazine. Its less important on an O/U ....because if we have a mis-shaped shell -- we can usually ram it into the chamber ...

But buying a press - that won't resize on the press ...makes very little sense to me / espcially in this time and age ...where everything we need to do is faster, and faster ....

I had an hour to kill this morning at home ...before I came into my office ....so I loaded up about 12 boxes of 12ga shells and 12 boxes of 20ga shells. Bagged them up ...and put them into tubs. I bag 30 shells to a bag ( but 300 shells is 300 shells ) ...

In another hour this evening ....I'll load up 20 boxes or about 1,000 rounds of 9mm ...( 115 gr FMJ bullets ) for some of my handguns ....( my 32 yr old son and my 19 yr old grandson are coming over on Sat and Sunday ...and we're going to the handgun range on Sat evening / and 5 stand and sporting clays on Sunday ...)...

Doing those 24 boxes on a couple of 600 Jr's ....would have taken me 3 -- maybe 4 times as long .... I like reloading / but I like it a lot more ...when it only takes me an hour instead of 4 hours !! I'll help them to crank out another 20 boxes or so on Sat evening ...which they like doing too ... Having a good reloader - that does a good job / fairly quickly ..makes it part of the hobby as opposed to a "chore"...
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Old June 6, 2011, 03:17 PM   #79
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The MEC Jr resizes but uses a different system than the rest of the MEC line. The one expense I will have whether or not I get a used or new one is the shot bar. So far I have only seen one used Jr for sale with a one ounce. For the time being, though, I don't know if I want to cut down on shot or just powder. I may just go new because a lot of the used ones on ebay seem to be missing a part here and there.

I lilke the idea that I can probably sell the used Jr for what I have in it if I decide to go with a more elaborate rig.

As for time, I have more than $$$$ at the moment.

Last edited by TheKlawMan; June 6, 2011 at 03:23 PM.
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Old June 6, 2011, 03:19 PM   #80
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Better than me Jim - I get about 300 of one type in an hour or a little more - period. I have found going too fast produces too many issues with things going wrong...........

Besides, it's 92 degrees in my garage with no breeze....after 15 minutes, it's time to go inside for a cold drink of water
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Old June 6, 2011, 03:56 PM   #81
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600 shells or 24 boxes off a Mec 9000-HN in an hour is no big deal ...but that is about max capacity / and I switched presses ...from a 12ga to a 20ga ....( but it was 60 degrees in my shop this morning ....) so I had to put on slippers ....(concrete floor was just too much in bare feet ...)...

Going too fast is never a good idea ...but both of my presses are set up / ready to go .../ components are on the benchtop ...so I'm very fortunate.

I thought the sizer on the 600 Jr was different ...but I don't know that its less efficient ...vs just different.

92 Degrees ... ...it got up to 74 or so the other day ...and I thought I was going to die ( the moss between my toes actually dried out ..) .../ but no fear, tomorrow's high is supposed to be about 58 degrees.../with only a 20% chance of rain ....so its going to be a good day ( and I'll actually be shooting 5 stand and sporting clays tomorrow ...with a 20ga or 28ga not sure yet ...)...maybe both ...
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Old June 6, 2011, 03:59 PM   #82
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As to the Jr., it uses a sizing ring in lieu of the collapsing collet. One thing some folks run into with the collet is with some Europ shells having a brass base higher than the collet, so it doesn't get fully resized. With the Jr., you can fully resize, but it typically a little more OOMPH on the handle

As far as Estates go, they were GREAT ammo until Federal/ATK took over and made them a promo load
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Old June 6, 2011, 04:26 PM   #83
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and why do Estates ...when someone shoots them ...

smell like moldy nasty sweat socks ...that got left inside a plastic bag ...

( and I know we're talking about reloading ....but the promo loads that I do shoot once in a while / and have even shot them for tournaments is Rio's )...
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Old June 6, 2011, 06:05 PM   #84
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What kind of scale do I need to check powder drops? Balance beam? There are ridiculously low priced electronic scales.

After asking I see that in the past most voted for a balance type over a cheapie battery operated one. I may bid on a "Lee Safety Powder Scale".

FORGET THE ABOVE UNLESS I TOTALLY SCREWED UP. I GOT THE BID ON THE LEE.

Also, fixed drop or adjustable shot/powder bar. I will likely set it up the way I want it and rarely change it, unless I ever get good enough to drop down to shooting sub 1 ounce loads.

Last edited by TheKlawMan; June 6, 2011 at 07:03 PM.
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Old June 6, 2011, 06:44 PM   #85
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I use a RCBS Model 10•10 balance scale. It's my understanding that the budget electronic scales are subject to interference (and inconsistent results) from such things as fluorescent lights. Questions about scales might get more responses from the reloading forum.
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Old June 6, 2011, 07:06 PM   #86
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Thanks, Zippy. I bought the Lee Safety Powder Scale and am about to bid on a MEC 600 Jr Mark 5 (the current model of the Jr.). The guy selling it seems to know what he has and is up front about what is missing. It comes with a universal charge bar and I think that will work for me. I don't think Jim likes them so much.
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Old June 6, 2011, 08:07 PM   #87
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I have 4 of those micro adjustable bars on my MECs. For me it makes a big difference over the OEM MEC bars and bushings.
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Old June 6, 2011, 08:18 PM   #88
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Zippy has the Cadillac of the RCBS balance beams, very good scale. Mine is close, the 5-10 which doesn't seem to be made any more. One thing about their balance beam scales, they are guaranteed forever - they'll send you a shipping tag to send it back to Ohaus if necessary

I also have the UCB's on every Jr. - work great
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Old June 7, 2011, 11:36 AM   #89
Dave McC
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I used the balance beams for decades, first in loading metallics, then shotshells. I now use BP's little battery powered digital. Cross checked against the Ohaus, it's accurate so far.

I like fixed bars, but it's just inertia that keeps me from a universal.
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Old June 7, 2011, 11:52 PM   #90
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I universally like to fix my inertia in bars but the boss won't let me.
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Old June 8, 2011, 09:31 AM   #91
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Greetings
For years I used the simple Lee Hand Loader. I do not shoot at a range and generally just smack crows... civic duty. Bought my first one for $3 and it has reloaded enough ammo to take out hundreds of crows. I get it out once a month when up north there and reload as many rounds as I have empty. I also segregate hulls to a particular double or Mossy.
The Lyman Shotshell book is a must. When we return next time I will get a new one as there are great updates.
Down here in Peru I have a Lee Loader which I use on maybe 25 rounds a year. That one cast me a whopping $5 10 years ago. Mostly I load round ball with it for use in my Mossy here.
Mike in Peru
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Old June 8, 2011, 02:46 PM   #92
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I have an old OHaus balance beam scale as a backup / but for 99% of my scale use, I use an RCBS electronic. You do have to warm them up / check them for zero when you start them ...and if you bump the bench, they'll go off zero, need to be reset.

Most all of the cheap electronic scales are + - 0.1 grain ....and that's ok for shotshells...not so good for metallic. These days 90% of the less expensive electronic scales are made by PACT and rebranded for RCBS, Hornaday, Dillon, etc ....

You'll pay around $ 150 for an electronic scale / the beam scales are around $ 50 or so ....
---------------------
A better scale ....is to go to a scientific quality scale .... + - 0.01 grain...which is way better for metallic handgun ammo ....but they're about
$ 300.

a Denver Instrument MXX-123.
You can contact them at 1-800-321-1135 if you have any questions.
--------------------------
and you're right, I don't like single stage presses for anything ....( shotshell or metallic ) ... I like reloading a lot / but not enough to do it on a single stage press...( its just plain tedious ) !!
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Old June 8, 2011, 09:23 PM   #93
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Well, I bought an inexpensive balance beam scale off of e-bay (Lee Safety Powder Scale) and a basic reloader off of Craig's List (MEC Sizemaster), and it came with a 5th Edition Lyman loading handbook. Come next week I will see just how well this works in practice.

Are Remington Gun Club hulls worth reloading? I think someone posted that they are alright but don't last long, perhaps five reloads before cracking.
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Old June 9, 2011, 09:27 AM   #94
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Quote:
Are Remington Gun Club hulls worth reloading? I think someone posted that they are alright but don't last long, perhaps five reloads before cracking.
As good as every other Remington hull, even with the steel base. I have a lot that have been reloaded more than 5, some more like 10 times. I reload them until the crimps get crispy and split, then I reload them once more for traveling and don't bring them home
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Old June 9, 2011, 11:26 AM   #95
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Fantastic, oneounce. I picked up a few boxes worth the other day.
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Old June 9, 2011, 01:59 PM   #96
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Don't know if you have the chain Dick's where you live - around here they tend to put Gun Clubs on sale about every three weeks or so, and there is usually a Remington rebate available. When I start running out of empties, I'll buy a flat or two on sale, shoot them and then reload them until they split.

You can also become a shell whore, digging through the barrels of empties for good hulls...........

Last edited by oneounceload; June 9, 2011 at 04:32 PM. Reason: damn ten thumbs
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Old June 9, 2011, 02:28 PM   #97
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I find Gun Club hulls crack at about 5 reloads ( but I reload them to about 1225 fps too ) so a little hotter than OneOunce likes his at 1150 fps .../ so I don't mess with the Gun Club hulls... ( and the base is steel / not brass ) ...

Rem STS ( dark green) or Rem Nitro ( gold ) ....will last at least 20 reloads...before they crack... / so a 20 gallon tub of hulls will last you a lifetime ...or maybe more. A lot of "big time" shooters ....will shoot new Remington STS factory ammo ...and then sell you bags of once fired hulls for $ 0.05 apiece.../ some clubs bag them up and sell them too. I see a lot of Gun Club hulls in the trash cans at my club ...so a little dumpster diving will give you a few thousand in a hurry ...( or just pick them up off the trap fields where you shoot - if you ask club management first ..)..
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Old June 10, 2011, 10:19 AM   #98
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Substituting Fiochi Primer for Win 209

Can I substitute Fiochi 606 (,209 type) primers for Win 209 primers, which is what a recipe on page 161 of the 5th edition of Lyman's Shotshell Reloading Handbook specifies. 18 grains of Red Dot, Win 209, and a Windjammer delivers 1 1/8 ounces shot at 1166 FPS and a pressure of 9,800 psi. A pressure test table on page 46 suggests to me that the Fiochi 616 delivers a hair less velocity and pressure than the Win 209 with Hogdon Powder (nt specifying which Hogdon) in a 12 gauge 1 1/8 load. I note that on the same page as the tale it states not to subsitute primers.

Edit: I said the Fiochi primers were 606, which is a typo. The box reads "FIOCCI 100 Shotshell Primers 616 (.209 TYPE) SUR." Looking further it appears that they will work with a recipe for Hogdon Clays powder. Perhaps others. I haven't looked.

Last edited by TheKlawMan; June 10, 2011 at 10:46 PM.
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Old June 10, 2011, 12:50 PM   #99
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All reloading manuals are written by lawyers ....

You're missing something in that book ...because it has to specify the powder type ....( Hodgdon makes over a dozen different powders just for shotshells ) ... !!

So it leads you into believing its ok ....and then tells you not to../ but based on the data you found / it looks like it would be ok.

Double check the data in that book / with current data from Hodgdon website... and then go to the Alliant website for Red Dot recipes and compare them. It sounds to me like that book is pretty old ( I don't use Fiocchi primers - but I think current recipes call for FIO 616 or FIO 617's ...not a 606 number ....) so I'm not sure what you have.

There is so much data on the internet ....reloading manuals are really obsolete these days. A good book on reloading techniques / reading the loader's manual - from MEC or wherever ...is good info ...but there isn't any reason to buy current reloading manuals ...unless you just like books on your shelf .../keep the book you have as a reference ....but update the data for the recipes you intend to use by printing pages off their websites.

Remember powders get reformulated from time to time .../companies get bought out, etc ....so whenever you buy powder ...its a good idea to go to the powder website and make sure the recipe hasn't been changed.
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Old June 10, 2011, 01:00 PM   #100
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Klaw, you can e-order a free current reloading guide directly from Alliant, the makers of RedDot, or use their on-line data base. You may not find the exact data you wish because of the Windjammer wads. You can use Claybuster's direct replacement WW wads and there may be more data.
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