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Old February 9, 2011, 06:23 PM   #51
zippy13
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You do not have to load shotshells exactly as the book may call it out.

Their recipes are not written in stone.
Now we know why you're called "Wild".
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Old February 9, 2011, 06:27 PM   #52
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mixing components in shotshells vs following published recipes ...is reckless in my opinion ....and to recommend the same ...in a forum, is a very bad idea.

There are some substitutions for wads allowed / and you may find 2 recipes ---one with primer X and one with primer Y ....and be just fine... but

1. all 209 shotshell primers are not even close to being the same ...and should never be substituted ...

2. 20grains of a powder, like Hodgdon Clays is a pretty heavy load / and I would never say an average load is around 20 grains ... Its just not close to that much powder on average ....

3. Interchanging wads is allowed --- if they are listed in the reloading books tables for substitution. But to just mix in anything ....no, that's not ok ...

But as an example ....A recipe calling for a WAA12SL wad has 4 or 5 allowed substitutions including the Green Duster and the CB1100-12 both of which are commonl available.

4. mixing and matching hulls ....low brass ....high brass ....is going to give you all kinds of messed up crimps.

I don't know everything about reloading shotshells....I've only been doing it for 50 yrs or so ... but "Follow Published Recipes, Please ...."...
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Old February 9, 2011, 06:55 PM   #53
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Yeah, that's pretty bad advice. Just like winchester didn't screw things up with the HS hulls and not coming out with the correct wads for them. Different primers burn differently, different wads cause different pressures, There might be some variations that work and are being widely used, but try to keep the recipes and try to chrono some batches of loads to see if you are consistent.
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Old February 9, 2011, 08:58 PM   #54
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Quote:
TheKlawMan,
I don't have a clue where to get discount components locally in SoCal. My last bulk order was from J & S up in Jackson. The last time I was there, the had low prices on MEC, too. You might ask the shooters at Prado who's their component guy.
To reiterate about J&S, they delivered to us in N NV every week - good folks, fair prices and door step delivery


Quote:
You do not have to load shotshells exactly as the book may call it out.

Their recipes are not written in stone.

You can use any primer. I prefer those that are "sealed". I think it was the old 57 type that were open.

You can use almost any wad, ... as long as it will hold the amount of shot you want and give a decent crimp.

You can use any hull, high base or low base, makes no difference. But again, the wad and shot amount will be your limiting factor. I prefer hulls with 8 point crimp. AA - red or gray, RXP, STS, etc.

You will find that most loads use around 20 grains of powder.

I select loads as to the powder type and amount of shot.

This is a "ratio" you must follow.

I never EXCEED MAX powder charges.
And just what insanity do you base this total BS on? But then, I forget, there are folks who never read the manual either

This is the most irresponsible BS crap ever posted about loading shotgun shells:barf:
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Old February 9, 2011, 09:25 PM   #55
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Don't worry oneounce, I learned enought abouty ordinance years back, even if I was an aviation ordinance technician, that I am following recipes. For very experienced reloaders, perhaps they might experiment with special recipes, but like are poster "Dirty" Harry Callahan famously said, a man has to know his limits. Unfortunately, someone with even less common sense and experience than myself might read how they can play around with known recipes and blow themselves up.
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Old February 9, 2011, 10:13 PM   #56
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Is this scale okay?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...fordds750scale

I am wondering if the wieght of many loaded shotshellsl will exceed the 750 grain capacity

Here is one with a weight capacity double Frankfordds 750, the BPI BallistiScale 1500 Digital Scale and it seems to be marketed for shotgunners

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

Perhaps a local PD is auctioning off some high quality scales and I don't mean ones they have been using for reloading.

Last edited by TheKlawMan; February 9, 2011 at 10:19 PM.
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Old February 10, 2011, 03:51 PM   #57
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I don't like either one of those ....and I don't know what a loaded 12ga shotshell weighs ....but you'll never have to weigh one ...

All you'll ever weigh - is the powder / not the hull and the powder.

You will zero the scale - with the pan - on the platten ....and then dump the powder into the pan and weigh just the powder. Say around 17.0 grains.

PACT, RCBS, Dillon etc all have good scales .... electronic ones, that plug into 110 and have a battery backup will cost you about $ 140 / but a good manual balance beam scale ... Dillon, OHaus, etc have them as well for about $ 55 ...

The best scale out there is accurate to 0.01 grain ....and is a Denver Instrument scale MXX-123 for around $ 300 I think ....
You can contact them at 1-800-321-1135 if you have any questions.

But don't go for a battery only scale ...a balance beam scale would be a way better option than either of those in my opinion. Remember its something you'll have forever ....
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Old February 10, 2011, 06:30 PM   #58
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I prefer balance beam scales to electronic - as they tend to be finicky and battery stuff and me tend to short out early.

Ohaus makes most of the better balance beam scales for the majority of the big brands - well made and most brands will have a life-time warranty. My 5-10 has been in use for almost 30 years - it sits on a shelf ABOVE the bench so vibrations do not affect it

Last edited by oneounceload; February 10, 2011 at 06:55 PM.
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Old February 10, 2011, 06:53 PM   #59
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The truth be told, I loaded shot shells for many years without a scale. My first MEC was so long ago, it was before they had interchangeable powder bushings -- the bar had two metering holes. IIRC, the bar that came with the 12-ga 650 dropped 1-1/8 oz shot and a 3 dram equivalent of RedDot. I finally bought a scale (RCBS Model 10•10) when I got into pistol reloading. Having a scale, I got an adjustable bar for the MEC and broadened my shot shell reloading horizon.
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Old February 10, 2011, 07:07 PM   #60
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get the Lyman loading manual. Yes, loading shotgun shells on a single stage press is very simple. You will need different charge bars and powder bushings for different loads or you can get a universal charge bar.
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Old February 10, 2011, 07:10 PM   #61
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Oops! I remembered something in the videos I saw on youtube about the MEC 600 Jr and the ones that mention a scale indeed only talk about using it to spot check the accuracy of your powder loads. There are two guys recommending tapping the handle a few times after dropping shot to make shuer it has all fallen into the hull. My bet is BigJim has a tad more experience with reloading than those young guys, unless this is a recommendation peculiar to the MEC 600 JR.
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Old February 10, 2011, 07:20 PM   #62
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I was just using my Jr. - I run it quick and hard - with the red PC powder baffle and the vibrations from running it, the load drops are very consistent for powder and shot
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Old February 10, 2011, 09:31 PM   #63
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I haven't run a MEC 600 Jr. for many years; but, as I recall, the charge bar is manually shuttled. Consequently, there's a quantum leap more tactile feedback from the 600 Jr. than the bigger progressive models. If a wad doesn't go in quite right, you'll know about it with a 600 Jr., but it might be missed with a bigger press. With the 600 Jr., you'd feel something is amiss and back-up the ram. With the big press, spilled shot might be your first sign of trouble.
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Old February 10, 2011, 10:10 PM   #64
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Zippy - correct - it is a manual shuttle - I use the UCB instead of fixed bars - but I still use my finger and move them quick and hard.

One advantage about them......I broke my progressive this week - something went awry - parts are coming, but as in anything the absolute simplest you make something mechanical, the better it will last..........now I can't reload 10 boxes an hour like Jim....but I can do 6-8 and that includes boxing them and reloading the primer feed...it's a nice backup to have for any progressive
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Old February 11, 2011, 01:59 AM   #65
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Klawman, I always weigh out ten charges before anything goes into a hull. This gives a pretty accurate idea of what your machine is dropping. I have to agree with my friends here on the Mec reloader. You have to own a Texan, two Pacifics and three or four Mecs to really appreciate your first PW. Did I say that out loud?
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Old February 11, 2011, 03:13 AM   #66
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Thanks everyone. I think I have the basic info and know what I want to do if I reload, but for the time being the boss wants me to chose a long barrel or a loading press and since it seems I have no trouble anymore with recoil I am going with the barrel and the one ounce loads from WM. If not the cheapest, which are the Federals with 3-1/4 dram equivalent, I will pay an extra buck for the Winchester 2-3/4 dram 1 ounce target loads. My plan is to shoot the **** out of them so my shoulder brusies up and the boss then lets me buy the press, too. In the long run, I think my aging bones will thank me if I start shooting 7/8s.
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Old February 11, 2011, 12:02 PM   #67
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Hey, now ....I'm not just a one trick pony ....(although I do rely on my MEC hydraulic machines to do 99% of my reloading ..) .... I have a MEC Grabber model ( manual pull handle ) as a backup right now ...in 12ga at least ...( and usually about 60 boxes of shells per gague ...in inventory ) ...

MEC's are so easy to fix / even if I break something ...I can have the loader up and running in a week or two tops. Depending on what breaks / since I have 4 loaders ...I've even scavenged parts off one or the other ....but the only thing I've broken in the last 10 yrs probably ...is a wad guide ...

Even if I broke the 20ga loader ....I'd just shoot more 28ga for awhile or something ...so having a backup to me /isn't a big deal.

My procedure is to make 3 or 4 drops of powder / dumping them all back into the hopper. Then I start weighing every powder drop for first 4 or 5 drops -- to make sure the press is dropping right at the goal for that shell. Once it is consistent / I check about every 15th shell or so ...to make sure nothing has changed.

Tapping that shot feed tube ...used to be a big deal ....because the shot would "bridge" in the tube ...and not drop thru to the hull. MEC redesigned their Shot feed tubes several yrs ago ...and I've never had it happen on 12, 20 or 28ga loading 7 1/2's, 8's or 9's ..... but I have had it happen in a
.410 once in a while if I'm trying to load 8's ...not so much in loading 9's in the .410's.
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Old June 5, 2011, 01:20 AM   #68
TheKlawMan
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OK. I finally took a lesson, like everyone said, and it was well worth the money. Now, I guess I am going to finally pick up a MEC Jr. , like everyone recommended so as to save some money and shoot some body & fllinching saving loads(Hitting head agaist wall since I had located one within a 10 mile drive for $60 and didn't jump on it when I had the chance.)

I have a question about shot, which seems to be one of the main expenses. Since this will all be for practice, is used shot well enough?
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Old June 5, 2011, 03:38 AM   #69
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K-Law, my friend, my club used to sell the shot we reclaimed from the trap and skeet fields. I loaded reclaimed in practice loads for many years. The only reason I stopped was the club stopped selling reclaimed because they decided to have it re-manufactured off site. The price difference wasn't significantly higher to the members. Some shooters say reclaimed is full of rocks and other nasty stuff, but I never found this to be true with the product from the shot cleaning crews that came to our club. Actually, the reclaimed shot looked better than some of the stuff I've seen loaded in promotional dove loads.

Most of the shot was from the trap fields, so it tended to have a higher percentage of 7-1/2s. The stuff worked fine the for trap and the skeet gauges; however, I found new 9s worked better in .410-bore skeet loads.
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Old June 5, 2011, 12:55 PM   #70
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Thank you, Zippy. I am not certain what Prado sells shot for but Phillips Wholesale, the place I mistakenly thought was mentioned in the past by you, had reclaimed shot at $26 for a 25# bag as compared to $38 for new. Those are one bag prices. I ran some numbers and see why people aren't happy with the price of shot. I am only guessing which powder and components I will get, but figure I can reload for around $4.65 a box without buying in massive quantities. I think the case price at Prado is around $6.70 for Estate so reloading significantly cuts down on the cost of shooting. (Calcs do not include the amorized cost of equipment which is minor given the price for an MEC Jr. and scales.)

Last edited by TheKlawMan; June 5, 2011 at 01:02 PM.
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Old June 5, 2011, 03:18 PM   #71
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When I started seriously reloading shot shells in '68, new shot was $36/100#, and folks were still looking to save with reclaimed.
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Old June 5, 2011, 07:43 PM   #72
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One thing about reclaimed is the quality of the reclamation the miner does - some uses too much graphite and it can gunk your machine; some do not sweep the shot with a magnet or pick out small stones - both bad ju-ju to have in your mix.

IF the miner does take care of those issues, reclaimed is great.......for practice. When the money is on the line, the best quality factory stuff should be used - besides it will give you more empties for reloading
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Old June 5, 2011, 08:21 PM   #73
TheKlawMan
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Just returned from the gun fair at Raahauge's. Just as we were leaving we found the MEC exhibit. The didn't have a JR but two Sizemasters and one more expensive press, which I think was teh 9000GN. I may try to get the Sizemaster, which to me is a 600 Jr with the $65 primer feed and a different type of resizer. Does anyone familiar with the 600 Jr think the primer feed is worth the money?
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Old June 6, 2011, 08:55 AM   #74
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Having owned 3 Jr's - I can tell you I have the primer feed on everyone of them - speeds up production a LOT. No oily fingers trying to grasp a primer and put it in the reloading hole. When I get into a rhythm, I can get 6 boxes an hour done.

One other accessory you'll want is the EZ-pack - that's the red sloping metal holder you place each finished shell into so you can slip a box over the top and VOILA!, boxed and ready to go
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Old June 6, 2011, 12:01 PM   #75
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Look over the MEC website before you decide ...

http://www.mecreloaders.com/ProductLine/Product.asp

The 600 Jr isn't a bad machine ....but yes, add the primer feed. You can get about 4 boxes an hour off the machine. Recob's target shop out of Wisconsin sells it new for about $ 135 / and they're a good company to deal with / I've bought lots of loaders and lots of components from them.

http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/2,197.html

The sizemaster, in my view, is really there because you can adjust it for 2 3/4" or 3" shells ...so its more designed for the "hunter" vs a target shooter. It doesn't increase your speed much - its still a 4 box per hour machine in my mind.

The next step up - is the Grabber / and its the first in the line of the progressive machines and will give you about 8 boxes an hour / so it really increses your volume. Recobs target shop sells it new for about $ 370.

9000 GN is a better machine than the Grabber / and its $ 60 more ....but it auto indexes ..so its faster easily 12 - 15 boxes an hour.

9000 HN is their hydraulic ( which I like / but you need a permanent location for the motor and pump that rests on the floor ) so its not portable. Its a little faster than the 9000 GN - ( call it 15 - 18 boxes an hour )...

On the easy pak ...sure they work / but I'm lazy ....I toss 30 shells into a quart sized zip lock bag ( gives me a few extra shells per round) ...and then put 10 bags into an 8 gallon tupperware tub...

Going with a Jr isn't bad / and they're easy to sell ...but time is a factor .. / so I'd take a serious look at the Grabber model instead. ( I know none of this stuff is cheap / but you'll have it a long time ...)...
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