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Old February 2, 2011, 07:35 AM   #1
Sea Buck
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6.8 SPC in AR Accuracy?

What kind of accuracy are you getting from your 6.8 SPC in an AR rifle or upper.The recent article in NRA's Feb American Rifleman makes the case of the AR configuration to be inaccurate,ie: 2-4" 100 yd groups.
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Old February 2, 2011, 08:16 AM   #2
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The article in AR was poorly researched and several years out of date. Bryce Townsley took the worst spec rifle available and was predictably disappointed. The comments on their website pretty much say it all:
http://www.americanrifleman.org/arti...pc-ballistics/

The sidebar on page 51 by Bill Wilson had more correct and useful information than the rest of the article.

Sub MOA is easy to get, I even get 1MOA with Hornady VMax seconds
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Old February 2, 2011, 08:28 AM   #3
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Agreed! But,what kind of accuracy are you getting from your 6.8SPC AR ? Are you using commercial loads? Are you using hand loads? Before I go out and spend big money on a new upper in 6.8 I'd like to know the facts...I do not want to end up with a crowbar in my gun cabinet!!
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Old February 2, 2011, 08:28 AM   #4
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From Zak's site:

"6.8 SPC shoots minute-of-angle or better at both 100 and 600 yards, similar in accuracy to the 77-grain Mk262 5.56 from the SPR"

Linky thingy:

http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.8-m...s-carbine/?p=3
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Old February 2, 2011, 08:50 AM   #5
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Well, it depends on what AR Barrel you are using. I have an AR Performance 6.8 x 43 chambered gun, with bolt/bcg combo. My gun has consistently shot 1 M.O.A. at 100 yards.

That is with a 4x44 "budget" scope, off bags, using SSA 85gn.
I am a NOOB to the 6.8, and have been learning as I go. I would highly recommend joining the 68forums, for the best info on the round.

Bruce Towsley's article so biased, and unresearched, American Rifleman is releasing another article on it in the next few months.

My personal recommendation is AR Performance, Bison, Noveske. I'm partial to ARP, because he seems to have done the MOST work to squeeze every ounce of performance from the round.

I would stay away from most of the major mfg's of ARs in 6.8. They have cut to many corners, and have done little to help the round.
It's a bit of a two edge sword: If we can't get them on bosrd(by purchasing), the round will remain a "wildcat".
I'd like it to take off, so more ammo manufacturers get on board, and prices drop.

As far as ammo goes, Silver State Armory is "king". They have 85-115 grain bullets. 85 and 110 seem most popular (and accurate).

The 6.8spc is a GREAT round, for putting down "man sized" game. As it was explained to me (simply)"It carries 30-30 like ballistics out to 300 yds"


Is it "super sniper" accurate out to 400 yds? NO, it wasn't meant to. It was meant to bring a man down quickly at 300.
As long as you understand it's not going to be a 400+ match gun, I tink you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Good luck in your search, if you have any more questions, search the 68forums. Truly an AWESOME bunch of guys.
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Old February 2, 2011, 09:19 AM   #6
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I recently built a 6.8 upper using a Yankee Hill Machine 16" barrel. It has a Houge free float tube and a vortex viper 2-7 scope. It will consistently shoot 1" groups at 100 yds using Remington and Bitteroot Valley factory ammo. I really like this caliber in an AR. I do agree that the American Rifleman article was off-base in many aspects.
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Old February 2, 2011, 10:29 AM   #7
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The accuracy of any rifle is going to depend on the quality of the builder plus a little bit of luck. Usually with the right handload you can get any gun to shoot under 1" at 100 yards. However, the design of the SPCII chamber calls for a pretty far jump from the leade to the lands of the rifling. This typically means that high expectations of accuracy should not dominate your reason for purchasing a 6.8. If you want a gun that can kill stuff within 100-200 even 300 yards the 6.8 is more than accurate enough to do it. If you want to put really tight groups on paper the .223 and 6.5 grendel have a little advantage just in the design of the chamber and slightly higher BC bullets. So, though the article in American Rifleman was out dated and a little underinformed, there is some logic in believing that the 6.8 was not intended to be a bench gun. As far as the statement that it is "not inherently accurate," I couldn't disagree more about any cartridge given that label. .223 and 5.56 is often referred to as "inherently accurate" unless you shoot it from a Mini 14. What that says to me is that a platform or barrel can be inherently accurate but the cartride is only as accurate as the gun you shoot it from. You want an accurate 6.8? Then buy from a manufacturer that is known for super accuracy barrels.
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Last edited by Longdayjake; February 2, 2011 at 11:05 AM.
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Old February 2, 2011, 10:37 AM   #8
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I agree with Longdayjake, the 6.8spc is about delivering energy to the target, knock down power. A quality barrel well give you sub moa. If your goal is small groups on paper a 6.5G may be a better choice, particularly at longer ranges.
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Old February 2, 2011, 11:32 AM   #9
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Thanks for the comments. My goal is a light kicker deer and varmint gun on an AR platform. Since I aready have two lowers and 3 uppers in 5.56mm something that I could drop onto a lower would be nice.The .450 Bushy makes my back teeth ache just to think of it so I decided to research the 6.8SPC but was discouraged by the NRA article which seemed disjointed and not well put togather. I like the Stag upper price but have to look at others also. Thanks again.
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Old February 2, 2011, 11:44 AM   #10
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Sea Buck , it is a light kicker for sure and I'm betting it will be great for hogs and deer. I do hope as mentioned earlier, that it gains popularity so ammo goes down in price
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Old February 2, 2011, 11:45 AM   #11
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This group is fairly typical of those I get from my scoped AR 6.8 rifle, with the best ammo.
I kept this group only because it is the very best group I ever shot WITH IRONS in my life.
I put on a “back up sight’ and was zeroing in the rifle. My friend Bob Ellis was spotting for me. I was using a 10 round C Products mag.
My 1st shot was low and to the right clear off the paper. Bob said to bring it up and left. I shot one round at a time going up and left after every one until I shot my 6th round, which you see in the corner of the square. Bob said “come up on and left one, and shoot me a group. I did as he said and fired the last 4 rounds.
This is such a good group I have to say I doubt I can do it again, especially now that my eyes are starting to age a bit (I did this shooting 6 years ago)

But the point here is simply that the 6.8 SPC in a good rifle with good ammo is as accurate as any AR and better then a lot of them.
I can still shoot groups like this one with the same rifle, but I now use a 2Xto 10X scope (on 10 power) to do it.
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Old February 2, 2011, 12:21 PM   #12
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Personally I would steer clear of Stag for now. Read these few threads, and draw your own conclusion(pay attention to dates, as this is fairly recent). Here are some threads for your reading enjoyment:
http://68forums.com/forums/showthrea...ht=Stag+uppers
http://68forums.com/forums/showthrea...ht=Stag+uppers
http://68forums.com/forums/showthrea...ht=Stag+uppers
http://68forums.com/forums/showthrea...ht=Stag+uppers

Not all Stags are bad, and the 7l seems to have the bugs worked out. But, they still have some work to do.

Here is a couple links to the 3 most recommended 6.8 makers, who are highly praised in the 6.8 community. You'll see for a few dollars more, you get MUCH BETTER quality control, and service.

http://68forums.com/forums/forumdisp...15-Performance
- http://www.ar15performance.com/online___store
http://68forums.com/forums/forumdisp...5-Bison-Armory
http://68forums.com/forums/forumdisp...ske-Rifleworks

All of these manufacturers are good to go. It just seems the custom guys, are really delivering.
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Last edited by kristop64089; February 2, 2011 at 05:03 PM. Reason: my math sucks
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Old February 2, 2011, 03:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Bryce Townsley took the worst spec rifle available and was predictably disappointed. The comments on their website pretty much say it all:
http://www.americanrifleman.org/arti...pc-ballistics/

The sidebar on page 51 by Bill Wilson had more correct and useful information than the rest of the article.
That's what I was going to point out. I read the main article and was shaking my head and talking out loud. Then I read the sidebar and it basically says the opposite! Bad enough when two articles in one mag come to different conclusions but even more amazing when it is in the SAME article!!

I love my custom 6.8 but I never have gotten serious enough to start shooting measured groups from the bench.

Gregg
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Old February 2, 2011, 06:44 PM   #14
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Likely better than you can hold.
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Old February 3, 2011, 02:38 PM   #15
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Thanks for all the info. I like the set ups from Bison Armory. I can see that ammo will be a problem.I just checked the Cabelas cat and found only Remington 115 gr fmj,which will be ok to get brass and get on paper.Where do you find it? Natchez? Midway? After shipping it's got to about $2 a round!
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Old February 3, 2011, 03:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
I just checked the Cabelas cat and found only Remington 115 gr fmj,which will be ok to get brass and get on paper.Where do you find it? Natchez? Midway? After shipping it's got to about $2 a round!
Personally, I don't even like to use the Remington brass. Just go to SSA and buy bulk brass. They will be happy to sell you some nice factory ammo as well. And for a lot less than $2 a round!

http://www.ssarmory.com/6.8ammunitionsales.aspx

Gregg
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Old February 3, 2011, 05:36 PM   #17
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Here:
http://www.ssarmory.com/

Double Tap and Hornady makes it, but you'll find 99% of the shooters recommend the SSA 85 or 110gn rounds.

I live in a Rural community, and our gunshop, in a town of 400, has boxes of 6.8. Now, it's Remington, but he has it. Also, if you check different forums(ar15.com) it will come up for sale. It's not a plinking round, so as long as you go with that mindset, you'll be fine. The ammo is not hard to get, and is such a great performer in "kill shots", it's well worth buying. I like it so much so, I sold my 5.56 upper, and kept my AR as a 6.8 only. I figure if I want to just sling lead, I have my Mini, and that's much more fun.

Now, I may be a bit biased in pushing for the 6.8, but the more guys that buy it, the more demand on the ammo, and slowly it will take a serious hold, and MAYBE prices will come down.
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Old February 3, 2011, 05:40 PM   #18
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I just want to add that you should not be dissapointed if you can only get 1"-2" groups from the 6.8. I know that there are a lot of guys that can get smaller than 1" groups but I firmly believe that not every rifle or barrel is capable of that. Usually people only post their best groups online and pretend that they never get anything bigger. I guess what I am saying is that the 6.8 is good enough as a short range combat/hunting weapon and doesn't need to be a super accurate bench cartridge to still be cool.
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Old February 3, 2011, 06:20 PM   #19
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I have two Bisons that both shoot SSA ProHunters extremely well, in fact they shoot just about everything extremely well. If you do your part you will in all likely hood be shooting very tight little sub groups.

For a production barrel the Bisons are well worth their money.IMHO And Ben is a very nice gentleman to deal with too.
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