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Old January 31, 2011, 06:38 PM   #1
MauiMontana
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.223 rem. sierra Matchking 69 gr. HPBT powder suggestions?

looking to try some new loads for my bushmaster match rifle 1:8 twist other than 26 gr. Varget. This load i have had REALLY good results with the 69 gr. HPBT. I also load a lot of hndy 55gr fmj/bt over 25.5 gr. Varget, but i'm running out of powder and might want to try a different powder if i gotta go out and buy some.. i just recieved about 1000 rnds of the 69 gr. hpbt's, so preferably i'm looking for a great powder to try for 300-400 yds. i'm using bha match brass, cci sr primers currently and would prefer to utilize it. Any good combos would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance.

also, any good data using hornady's 50 gr. V-max would be helpful, as i happen to have a box of those for the groundhogs.
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Old January 31, 2011, 07:38 PM   #2
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H-4895 is an excellent powder for bullets in that weight range.
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Old January 31, 2011, 07:39 PM   #3
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The very best powder I use with the 69 grainers is....Varget. Have tried RL15, H335, and TAC....still Varget. Don't mess with success.
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Old January 31, 2011, 08:07 PM   #4
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i agree with "not messing with success". varget has never let me down, i guess i just get bored and like to try new loads for kicks. anyway, thanks for the input.

J.
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Old January 31, 2011, 08:59 PM   #5
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Alliant Reloder 15, Hodgdon H4895 and Hodgdon Varget. I've driven 69gr Noslers with all three through my Service Rifle and Varget is the only one I've ever bought in 8-lb jugs, if that tells you anything...

From my experience, RL-15 is pretty interchangeable with Varget. Where one works well, the other will also. I've shot excellent scores out to 600 yards with both, though I find my loads with 80gr Noslers and Varget to give me higher X-counts.
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Old January 31, 2011, 09:07 PM   #6
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I have had good luck with RL-15, using 69,75,77, at 600 yards.
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Old January 31, 2011, 09:09 PM   #7
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ive been working with varget and 68 gr.ers and they shoot .75" groups allday long at 100 yards im trying to get it down to .50" group but it'll take some time
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Old January 31, 2011, 09:13 PM   #8
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just curious as to how the 75-77 gr would do through a 1:8 twist.... heard bad things, ....had probs at 300-600 with 75 gr. once, kinda wobbly, had to dial down the load and don't want to sacrifice velocity either. Varget always did well, especially with a milder 1:12 twister. but almost too well with the heavier .223 bullets and a faster twist than 1:10. read in other forums that the 77s over 2900 fps will really do some wierd stuff out of a 1:8, but i guess there's only one way to find out right??? .
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Old February 1, 2011, 06:42 AM   #9
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You want 2900-fps with a 75-77 in a 20" .223? Remind me not to shoot next to you!

Seriously, you can drive a 77gr Nosler/Sierra to about 2750-fps reliably with a 20" 1-8" twist barrel. The 80gr bullets can be driven to about the same speed but require adjusting seating depth and bullet jump.

As for sacrificing speed, I have it from a reliable source the Army Marksmanship Unit uses an 80gr .223 load at 600-yards that runs slower than what most of us civilians shoot. They seem to do alright with it...
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Old February 1, 2011, 07:49 AM   #10
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Plus 10 for RL-15. It's the only one i get.As stated--Why mess with succsess.
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Old February 1, 2011, 07:51 AM   #11
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P-990-- I was told in order to stabalize any thing over 70 gns . You need at least 2800/FPs muzzel to hold it out past 400 yards.
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Old February 1, 2011, 10:53 AM   #12
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I get excellent results with the Sierra 69 HPBT using H380 in my 1/8 twist heavy barrel AR.
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Old February 1, 2011, 06:59 PM   #13
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P-990-- I was told in order to stabalize any thing over 70 gns . You need at least 2800/FPs muzzel to hold it out past 400 yards.
Quite frankly whoever told you that is full of it. And ignoring the body of experience of THOUSANDS of Highpower shooters.

You only need to drive 75-80gr bullets to 2600-2750 fps from a .223 to get reliable performance out to 600 yards. You need a 1-8 or 1-7 twist for this; I could see somebody using a 1-9 twist trying to compensate for the slow spin with more MV, but that's a dangerous game to play.

People who aren't experienced or confident doping wind will also try to use increased MV to compensate. Again, a little practice in the wind will be more helpful than throwing your bullets faster.
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Old February 1, 2011, 07:27 PM   #14
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P-990 I do extreame long range shooting right now and will be getting into it even more this summer coming up. These are compatition shooters that are telling me this. A 223 is not what you call HIGH POWER shooting either.
Right now i throw my 75 A-Max at 2850 FPS out to 600 and 800 yards.
No disrespect meant,but i think im going to go with the comp shooters answer on this one.
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Old February 1, 2011, 08:20 PM   #15
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I have an NRA-Master classification in Highpower shooting an AR-15 Service Rifle. I shoot with a bunch of others, including a few President's 100 and Distinguished Rifleman badges (and I have 8 DR points myself, see the results from Camp Ethan Allen, Bolton, VT from Memorial Day 2010, and missed the cut at Camp Perry by 1 point on the NTI this year). Not that we know anything about shooting...
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Old February 1, 2011, 08:26 PM   #16
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P-990-Not that we know anything about shooting,, Never ever meant it to come out that way-Sorry for that. Im just saying that i have had great luck with it so far. I can see by what you have posted that yes you do know so i won't argue that.Im saying what im doing is working great . I shoot eggs at 600 yards right now.Shoot bases out of 9MM cases at 100 yards. So i have to go with what works for me
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Old February 1, 2011, 08:37 PM   #17
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And I do need to add, that past 600 yards with the .223, the consensus is that yes, push them as hard as you can before you start popping primers and ripping case rims. But I think it's a disservice to somebody who may come along and see what we've written and think "WOW! I have to push my 75/77/80gr bullets to 2900-fps or they won't shoot!" Which is not the truth. I've been told the sweet spot for 75gr Hornadys is 2750, and I shoot Nosler 80s at 2650. (If I were going to a Palma-type match with my Service Rifle, I'd push the throttle on the loads and sacrifice my brass.)

I also have to relate a story I was told at a smallbore match last week. One of the other guys had been shooting a Palma match somewhere (in NY state I think) and one of the shooters using a .223 was blowing bullets up between the 900 and 1000 yard lines by overdriving them.
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Old February 1, 2011, 08:53 PM   #18
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Quote:
I shoot eggs at 600 yards right now.Shoot bases out of 9MM cases at 100 yards. So i have to go with what works for me
Your not shooting a service rifle either.
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Old February 1, 2011, 09:27 PM   #19
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no i sure am not. Custom Savage with 28 inch stainless steel bull barrel
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Old February 2, 2011, 06:30 AM   #20
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no i sure am not. Custom Savage with 28 inch stainless steel bull barrel
There's the issue right there. You have 8" more barrel than an AR-15 Service Rifle (20"). So I could easily see getting 2800+ with that much tube.

Let's figure:

2700-fps from a 20" Service Rifle

+25 fps/in * 8" = 200

2900-fps for a 28" .223

To be fair, I assumed the OP was talking about a 20" barrel on his Bushmaster match.
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Old February 2, 2011, 02:11 PM   #21
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I shoot eggs at 600 yards right now.Shoot bases out of 9MM cases at 100 yards.
You should sign up for the 1k matches at Camp Perry.

For the OP, I use the heck out of Reloder 15 and Remington 7 1/2 primers.
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Old February 2, 2011, 02:20 PM   #22
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P-990,, Once again you are right.
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Old February 2, 2011, 02:22 PM   #23
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Rest of Story-Tim.. Im only hitting about 3 out of 10 shots so far on the eggs. Long,Long ways to go. I pester the heck out of kraigwy most of the time(wealth of info from him). I think im his #1 pest

PS-P-990- I did not know a bushmaster was that kind of rifle,Sorry just nieve here big time.
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Old February 3, 2011, 06:12 AM   #24
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Since they are Sierra bullets, I suggest you check with the Sierra loading manual. They have done most of the work for you with THEIR bullets.

Sierra manual: 223 remington (AR 15) 69gr Matchking HPBT.
C.O.A.L. 2.260"

Powder Min. Max. Velocity
VihtN133 21.1 21.8 2500-2700
IMR4891 18.8 20.3 2500-2750
X-Term 21.9 23.3 2600-2800
AA2230 21.9 23.5 2500-2700
748 23.7 25.8 2500-2800
AA2460 22.9 24.5 2600-2800
H335 21.2 23.8 2500-2700
TAC 22.1 24.2 2500-2800
IMR4895 22.9 24.5 2400-2700
VihtN135 21.7 22.5 2500-2600
Varget 23.3 26.1 2500-2850
IMR4064 23.3 24.1 2500-2600
AA2520 23.1 25.5 2600-2900
IMR4320 24.0 25.4 2500-2700
VhtN140 23.1 25.1 2500-2750
RE15 23.3 25.7 2500-2750

Their accuracy load. Varget 25.3 2750


They also have another listing for bolt guns.
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Old February 3, 2011, 08:38 AM   #25
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Powder

+1 about Reloader 15. Works for me.
Don't have the experience of many of the posters but that powder and AA2460 have produced good results for me. I shoot 24.5 grains of the R15 with a Sierra 77 grain Matchking.
About eggs and such with the Savage. From what position is that shooting being done? What sights?
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