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Old January 28, 2011, 02:55 AM   #1
Stonefly_Soldier
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Llama M87 9mm or Ruger p90 .45

Okay so I'm new to the forums but I've been into firearms for a long time. I've been doing a lot of research and I have narrowed my choices down to 2 possible candidates. the llama m87 or the ruger p90. I shoot mostly targets but I would like a weapon I can carry around and afford to shoot when I want to. I plan to compete with the weapon at my local range in the amateur group. Here are the pros and cons I see with each pistol. Any advice would be phenomenal.

Llama m87 9mm para- $400 (well below book price approx $900 in current condition)

Pros-
rare
likely to hold value
affordable to shoot (9mm)
built to be a target pistol
95% condition
adjustable sights
uses beretta 92 magazines
high magazine cap
larger magazine release (i have small hands, medium size gloves fit nice and snug)
extremely intimidating

Cons-
More expensive initial investment
rare (hard to find parts)
less stopping power in a personal defense situation
haven't found any reviews

Ruger P90 .45acp $225 (also below book value)

Pros-
inexpensive initial investment
been told they are freakishly reliable
the one that i'm looking at has less than 50 rounds through it
extra stopping power with .45acp
good if i'm out in the sticks. get it covered in crap and it'll still fire
it'll fire any rounds I stick in it

Cons-
fixed sights (adjustable available for approx $80)
cost of ammunition
not sure about accuracy
heavy (not too big of an issue)
low magazine capacity
not crazy about the safety and decocker system being on the slide
not sure about it holding its value

That's what I've gathered after researching these firearms online and going and holding them at my local shop. I do own two other pistols and various rifles. I like my Walther SP-22 M2 but the trigger sucks and .22lr just isnt as fun and has little stopping power. My Smith and Wesson Model 12 is great but its just not a competition ready gun and I would prefer another automatic. (Unless I can find the right price on a 1970's Dan Wesson .357 magnum.)
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Old January 28, 2011, 07:36 AM   #2
LUPUS
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Llama M87 was manufactured with some additional features by Beretta for Llama. It is an all steel, rarely found, competetion ready pistol manufactured up to the Beretta quality and standards. If I were in your shoes I would definitely pay the additional cost over the Ruger to get Llama...
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Old January 28, 2011, 06:05 PM   #3
Stonefly_Soldier
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that's more what I'm leaning towards right now
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Old January 29, 2011, 12:42 AM   #4
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Do what I do. Buy both and sell the one you don't like at the gunshow for a profit.
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Old January 29, 2011, 11:44 AM   #5
gb6491
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Quote:
Llama M87 was manufactured with some additional features by Beretta for Llama.
Do you have a reference for that? I ask becuase I was of the thought that LLAMA built the M87 as a sport version of their M82. I did a quick search on the web and only find that the M82/87 pistols operate in similar fashion to the Beretta 92 and will use 92 magazines. I could not find a credible reference (no insult intended towards your post) that said Beretta made the M87.
Regards,
Greg
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Old January 29, 2011, 11:58 AM   #6
Walt Sherrill
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I had not heard of the 87, or that it was made by Beretta, but numerous gun sites and forums accept that such was the case. It is mentioned frequently.

The Fjestad Blue Book, which usually addresses that sort of detail, does not mention that it was built by Beretta.

Wikipedia, which has a pretty good article on Llama, mentions the 82 and 87, noting that the 87 got great press and was apparently a very good gun, but the new gun couldn't overcome Llama's declining reputation. (It sold for $1400 back then -- and in today's dollars that would be very expensive gun!) There is no mention of a collaboration with Beretta.

I think I'd spring for the 87, too, whether it was made by Beretta or not -- but NOT as an only gun. If you have need for parts, you could be in big trouble -- as they may simply not be available. Things like recoil springs may be a problem, too...

.
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Old January 29, 2011, 02:48 PM   #7
Stonefly_Soldier
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Looks like you folks are finding the same info I've been looking through. I've yet to find someone who owns one or has shot one for some first hand details. Given, any rare gun you take a risk with parts and such. I've taken that into account.
Does anyone have some first hand info on the p90? I know its reliable but I haven't found much on accuracy. Whether it would work good as an amateur comp pistol if I add adjustable sights or not.
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Old January 29, 2011, 07:21 PM   #8
lee n. field
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Quote:
Llama m87 9mm para- $400 (well below book price approx $900 in current condition)
That much lower -- I think I'd be looking into why that's the case. May be some flaw in this one.
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Old January 30, 2011, 12:00 AM   #9
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The reason for the low price is its a pawn shop and they've had the thing for almost 10 years... The owner showed me in his computer system that they bought it in aug 2001 for 450... he just wants to get it of the shelf and out of the shop. Plus he owes me a favor. For any other customer they still have it listed at 700. Below book but still not moving off the shelf anytime soon because no one knows what it is.
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Old January 30, 2011, 11:31 AM   #10
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I read, somewhere, that the P90 was one of the most accurate out-of-the-box DA/SA 45s (I think a few articles by Massad Ayoob). Also, a great advantage of the P90 is that it's still being made, so parts are easily available.
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Old January 30, 2011, 12:04 PM   #11
B.N.Real
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Easy decision-Ruger.

It ever breaks-it won't -you can get it fixed.

Plus it's known quantity.

An accurate,reliable design.

plus $225 is a great price for this gun.
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Old January 30, 2011, 01:59 PM   #12
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Someone may like one gun or another over the Ruger P90 but it will not be more accurate or reliable. For the $$$ there is no better gun than the Ruger P90 assuming you like how it feels.
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Old January 30, 2011, 02:03 PM   #13
Walt Sherrill
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Heck, get them both. I'm sure you can eventually sell the Ruger for more than you'll pay for it. You aren't likely to lose anything there.
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Old January 30, 2011, 02:46 PM   #14
lee n. field
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Quote:
plus $225 is a great price for this gun.
Two and a quarter for the P90. Dang! I missed that.

That is an excellent price on the Ruger. Get that.

If you're worried about the cost of ammo, sink the difference in price between this and the Llama into some basic reloading kit (lee classic turret and associated bits and pieces.) That will bring cost per round to below 9mm prices.
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Old January 31, 2011, 03:00 AM   #15
Stonefly_Soldier
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good point lee... i'm actaully really considering both now... probably the ruger first because i dont see the llama goin anywhere soon and starting to reload has been a plan for a while
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Old January 31, 2011, 03:49 AM   #16
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if I found a ruger p90 for $225 I'd probably knock over old ladies to get to it. I have a p95 that I've shot the snot out of and never had any trouble.
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Old January 31, 2011, 05:06 PM   #17
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Gotta love knowing the owners of pawn shops... I was pretty impressed by that Military surplus/ pawn shop when i was down there in Hermiston... best deal i've found on the 10/22 vleh was there... My guys in Moscow, ID keep me supplied.
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Old January 31, 2011, 05:35 PM   #18
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I don't know too much about the Lima, but I had a Ruger P-90 for years. The only reason I got rid of it, is because I was working a deal on a Kimber. As everyone here has stated they are out of the box reliable, accurate and built like a tank. Mine shot anything I put through it. It never malfunctioned, that I can remember. The only negative I can come up with is they really don't have any resale value, as with any Ruger pistol. I think the reason for that is because a new one is very reasonable price wise, compared to other pistol manufactures with a pistol the same category.
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Old January 31, 2011, 05:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
I was pretty impressed by that Military surplus/ pawn shop when i was down there in Hermiston
yeah I go in there all the time and those guys usually give me as good a deal as they can but this is a small town and they get shafted by their suppliers. I've gotten some OK deals on used stuff but even if I go to Pendleton I pay out the backside for new stuff.
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