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Old December 13, 2013, 03:51 PM   #1
steve4102
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Another School Shooting

Hold on to your hats. We have another school shooting in CO less than an hour ago. Details are scarce, but it appears there are two victims so far.

Sounds like it might be a Reservation School?

http://fox17online.com/2013/12/13/sc...#axzz2nO8cZbab
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Old December 13, 2013, 04:15 PM   #2
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Shooter is dead from what is believed to be a self inflicted gun shot wound.
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Old December 13, 2013, 04:24 PM   #3
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Re: Another School Shooting

Reservation school?

Local reports, here from Colorado report kid with shotgun went in looking for specific teacher, teacher informed and left as another student confronted shooter. He was shot and injured, second report of one taken to hospital hasn't been confirmed was even a gun shoot wound.

Shooter dead by self-inflicted gsw.

Lets not start histaria.
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Old December 13, 2013, 04:42 PM   #4
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Re: Another School Shooting

And it was just reported second victim was not wounded by gunshot and in good condition, though the teen who confronted the shooter was shot, possibly in the head and is in critical condition.

Press confrence in twenty minutes to confirm random reports.
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Old December 13, 2013, 04:45 PM   #5
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Doesn't look like a reservation school to me. Looks like a lot of white suburbanites.
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Old December 13, 2013, 04:50 PM   #6
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Centennial is a south suburb of Denver.
Let's not jump on this until the details come out.
Please, for the sake of the locals.
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Old December 13, 2013, 05:36 PM   #7
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where was the school security guards the NRA and the public asked for?
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Old December 13, 2013, 07:12 PM   #8
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Guys, doofus is right. Let's lay off speculation (and criticism) until we have more facts. This is a forum dedicated to law and civil rights. Let's keep that in mind.
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Old December 13, 2013, 07:24 PM   #9
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Its Arapahoe high school, in Centennial, Co, which is a suburb of Denver. Not a reservation school, just a school with a native american name.
Never the less this is an extremely unfortunate incident for all of us and only cool heads will prevail!
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Old December 13, 2013, 09:04 PM   #10
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Re: Another School Shooting

Sheriff has confirmed, shooter was out for revenge targeting a teacher. Wont give specifics on the gun, but said it was a shotgun.
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Old December 14, 2013, 05:57 PM   #11
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Numerous posts have been deleted for failing to follow direction. I repeat: this is a forum dedicated to discussions of law and civil-rights issues. If there are emanations from this situation affecting those, we're open to discuss them.

However, posts on the shooter's possible political views or general conjecture on the shooting itself are off topic.
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Old December 14, 2013, 05:58 PM   #12
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This is just more of the same we keep hearing. Until we get armed guards in school (or teachers who can carry) and, in appropriate cases, prosecute the legal owners of the guns used, we can just expect to see more if this.

Unfortunately the 'training' teachers are getting about what to do in this situation is at best, shockingly ignorant. Like the teacher who led her students into a windowless room to keep them safe! My mother is a teacher and we discuss these shooting regularly, she has been instructed to use equally absurd tactics. Luckily, her classroom has a window and she has some preservation instinct (for herself and her students). Plus, she's my mom!! I told her to hell with the teacher training, if you hear gun shots in the building-BUG OUT!

All the arguments against armed school guards or staff have no valid basis, same goes for the 'let's hide under our desks and wait to get shot' tactic. Thankfully we don't much hear about the 'throw school supplies at the shooter and rush them' tactic anymore; the Sandy Hook took care of that. Yes, doing any one of these sounds crazy---that's actually what teachers are being told to do! I understand schools are responsible for keeping track of the kids while they are there, but what so wrong with training teachers to get their students out of harms way? Always have a bug out plan!!

What usually happens when people without guns go up against people with guns?

Last edited by Sierra280; December 14, 2013 at 06:27 PM.
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Old December 14, 2013, 06:38 PM   #13
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So what can we glean from the early reports:

1. The weapon was a shotgun, which has been pretty much under the banners' radar while they focus on "evil" AR-15s and clones. Most likely we can now expect, rather than an acknowledgement that semi-auto rifles aren't inherently evil, a new push to add shotguns to the list of "evil" firearms.

2. A custodian saw the kid enter the school with a shotgun slung over his shoulder. No, I'm not faulting the custodian for putting his life at risk and trying to tackle the kid. But ... at least around my corner of the world. schools have been tripping over their purse strings in a lemming-like rush to install precisely the kind of door buzzer system that did NOT keep the shooter out at Sandy Hook a year ago. In this case, even though this school is just a few miles from Columbine H.S., apparently a kid was able to just WALK IN with a loaded shotgun.

So we didn't learn anything from Columbine, and we didn't learn anything from Sandy Hook. The prevailing attitude, despite paying lip service to teacher "training," is that "It won't happen here."
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Old December 14, 2013, 07:12 PM   #14
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Re: Another School Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
So what can we glean from the early reports:

1. The weapon was a shotgun, which has been pretty much under the banners' radar while they focus on "evil" AR-15s and clones. Most likely we can now expect, rather than an acknowledgement that semi-auto rifles aren't inherently evil, a new push to add shotguns to the list of "evil" firearms.

2. A custodian saw the kid enter the school with a shotgun slung over his shoulder. No, I'm not faulting the custodian for putting his life at risk and trying to tackle the kid. But ... at least around my corner of the world. schools have been tripping over their purse strings in a lemming-like rush to install precisely the kind of door buzzer system that did NOT keep the shooter out at Sandy Hook a year ago. In this case, even though this school is just a few miles from Columbine H.S., apparently a kid was able to just WALK IN with a loaded shotgun.

So we didn't learn anything from Columbine, and we didn't learn anything from Sandy Hook. The prevailing attitude, despite paying lip service to teacher "training," is that "It won't happen here."
This school, like many in Colorado has an open campus. Kids have freedom to come and go as their schedules dictate. Now I have heard the west side had three entrances from the student parking, and with it being lunch time it adds to the movement freedom at the time for the shooter.

I'm all for armed guards, but to lock the kids in at this grade level would cause more harm then good. Baring rare, dispite media reporting, incidents of violence like this, high school kids dont need to be locked in like prison rats for their safety.

And on the janitor, I heard on a local radio station, a man claiming to have been said janitor, he told how he rushed out of the area when he heard who the shooter was looking for and found the teacher and drove out of dodge with the actual "target" of this senseless violence.

I agree, had he been allowed to conceal carry he could have ended it with one death, the perps, but being he had no gun, think he did a good thing not rushing him and getting the teacher out of there.
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Old December 14, 2013, 07:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balyon85
This school, like many in Colorado has an open campus. Kids have freedom to come and go as their schedules dictate. Now I have heard the west side had three entrances from the student parking, and with it being lunch time it adds to the movement freedom at the time for the shooter.

I'm all for armed guards, but to lock the kids in at this grade level would cause more harm then good. Baring rare, dispite media reporting, incidents of violence like this, high school kids dont need to be locked in like prison rats for their safety.
First, I am not willing to blindly accept your statement that "to lock the kids in at this grade level would cause more harm then good." You're going to have to provide some supporting rationale and documentation before I'll even begin to consider that premise. I went through six years in the same building (grades 7 - 12). I graduated decades before Columbine so the front doors weren't locked, but it didn't matter. Whether or not we were "locked in," nobody went outside except for gym class and (in warm weather) lunch in the cafeteria courtyard (which wasn't then but easily could have been secured). If the doors had been locked it wouldn't have affected us at all.

Campus style lower and high schools are rare. Even before the need for security, it was an architectural/educational/social experiment that quickly proved to have very little merit, once you got beyond the architects are educators proclaiming their originality. With the push now for enhanced security, I doubt we'll ever see another campus style lower or high school -- and I view that as a good thing.

But, to get back to your post -- if locking the doors isn't the answer to security, what's your suggestion? Disarming the populace won't solve the problem -- remember, one of the worst school massacres in the world was carried out in the U.S. using ... dynamite. There was an attack on a school in Germany a few years ago using a flame-thrower.
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Old December 14, 2013, 09:58 PM   #16
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Re: Another School Shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
But, to get back to your post -- if locking the doors isn't the answer to security, what's your suggestion? Disarming the populace won't solve the problem
Because anywhere in my statement I mentioned disarming the populace?

I think we need to remember these occurrences are rare, and to change the way high schools in Colorado have been for years and locking everyone in and throwing the key out till final bell will be better? The high school I went to and graduated from in Colorado was the same one my father graduated from, guess what, no school shootings there and has had an open campus years before my father graduated and still has one years after. But guess for the call for greater security, lets lock them in for the day and change everything over two acts of violence(refering to Colorado alone).......make as much sense as banning guns over a rare occurance.
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Old December 14, 2013, 10:38 PM   #17
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The one thing I draw from these school shootings is, The gun free school zone laws are not working. But that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone here.
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Old December 14, 2013, 11:57 PM   #18
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the fact that these shooting are rare does not change how catastrophic they are. The fact that America has compromised its one constitutional right to protect against this kind of violence to the point where anyone can blatantly walk into any public place without any challenge is sad. The solution to the problem is to let the constitutional right do its job. Until the 2A is restored this isn't going to change
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Old December 15, 2013, 12:57 AM   #19
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Quote:
Until the 2A is restored this isn't going to change
That's an overly broad assertion, and one that's not easily proven.

What do we mean by "restoring" the 2nd Amendment? Unfettered carry everywhere? OK. So what happens when there's a shooting in a place nobody happened to be carrying at the moment? Some would pounce on that to "prove" us wrong.

There are claims that an armed civilian stopped the Clackamas mall shooting, but the shooter still inflicted casualties.

We need to be careful with the claims we make.
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Old December 15, 2013, 01:10 AM   #20
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Until the 2A is restored this isn't going to change
That's an overly broad assertion, and one that's not easily proven.

What do we mean by "restoring" the 2nd Amendment? Unfettered carry everywhere? OK. So what happens when there's a shooting in a place nobody happened to be carrying at the moment? Some would pounce on that to "prove" us wrong.

There are claims that an armed civilian stopped the Clackamas mall shooting, but the shooter still inflicted casualties.

We need to be careful with the claims we make.
all true. by restoring I mean all the gun laws that do nothing to prevent these crimes. IMO there is no solution to stopping violence... I just feel that there are people out there that would choose to carry in certain places but cant because its prohibited.
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Old December 15, 2013, 08:13 AM   #21
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While surfing Yahoo News this morning I came across this;
http://news.yahoo.com/colorado-schoo...014500823.html >

This report starts with;

Quote:
"An armed deputy sheriff at Arapahoe High School in Colorado likely prevented a school shooting there from being worse, officials say, ending the episode in less than two minutes"
There is some information that I did not see yesterday and I thought a good report for our side.

Have a great day!
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Old December 15, 2013, 09:33 AM   #22
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Quote:
And on the janitor, I heard on a local radio station, a man claiming to have been said janitor, he told how he rushed out of the area when he heard who the shooter was looking for and found the teacher and drove out of dodge with the actual "target" of this senseless violence.
How did the janitor know who the shooter's target would be?
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Old December 15, 2013, 09:51 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtmckinney
This report starts with;

Quote:
"An armed deputy sheriff at Arapahoe High School in Colorado likely prevented a school shooting there from being worse, officials say, ending the episode in less than two minutes"
There is some information that I did not see yesterday and I thought a good report for our side.
That needs to be confirmed. I have seen two news reports with response times mentioned. One said five minutes, the other said twenty minutes.

Let's not forget that the first responders arrived at Sandy Hook approximately three minutes after the first 9-1-1 call ... and then they diddled around outside for another five-plus minutes before effecting entry into the school.

In both incidents, the shooter was seen by staff. If staff had been armed, both incidents could have been ended much quicker and probably with fewer casualties.
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Old December 15, 2013, 11:42 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve4102 View Post
How did the janitor know who the shooter's target would be?
The same way the teacher knew he was being targeted. This kid had a plan in motion and was out for revenge against the debate team couch after having an issue on the team, as being reported by local media and the sheriff.
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Old December 15, 2013, 11:47 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca View Post
That needs to be confirmed. I have seen two news reports with response times mentioned. One said five minutes, the other said twenty minutes.

Let's not forget that the first responders arrived at Sandy Hook approximately three minutes after the first 9-1-1 call ... and then they diddled around outside for another five-plus minutes before effecting entry into the school.

In both incidents, the shooter was seen by staff. If staff had been armed, both incidents could have been ended much quicker and probably with fewer casualties.
Here you go, farther down speaks about the SRO you question

http://kdvr.com/2013/12/14/sheriff-a...g-many-people/

" An armed school resource officer was talking to school administrators down the hall from the library, police said. Upon hearing a commotion and, soon after, gunshots, the SRO and several other adults raced to the library, Robinson said.Upon hearing the SRO enter, Pierson realized he was cornered, Robinson said. The shooter then reportedly turned his gun on himself.“We believe that the response from the *school resource officer … was absolutely critical to the fact that we did not have additional injury and/or death in this particular matter,” Robinson said."

Entire event is reported to have taken 80 seconds and was mostly captured on the schools video cameras to confirm time of event.
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