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Old January 20, 2011, 02:49 PM   #26
Noz
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As in most things, speed comes from experience and dedication. Practice is a dirty word but it really does help.
For the average shooter with new guns, I would say it will take more than a summer to get into the 20 second range. Again it will depend on the effort you are willing to put into it.

Sure is fun to try though.

Call the contact number listed before you go and let them know you are coming. Then introductions are over and you can begin an immediate integration.
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Old January 21, 2011, 11:27 AM   #27
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I'm smilin' as I type this...........that's cuz I said pretty much the same thing -- "It shouldn't be that hard to break 30 seconds....I'm a good shooter who's been shootin' regularly for more than 20 years.....I'm ex-military....always shot expert in every weapon.....I just haven't fired a single action pistol before."

Well, I've shot 4 shoots now. Most of the shoots had six stages. I've broken 40 twice.

I can't tell you how many times I've shot a stage so far and thought, "That should be pretty good" and have the timer announce, "44.87" or some such. I also remember hearin', "36.33......with a P" (which is a penalty for shooting a target out of order....and adding 5 seconds to your time).

The funny thing is this -- I don't really care. Do I want to shoot faster? Sure. But the thing is, it doesn't really matter as much cuz I'm havin' fun.

Now, my 13 y/o came within 20 seconds of beating me at our last shoot (overrall time), and THAT might set a fire under me a bit.
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Old January 21, 2011, 12:15 PM   #28
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OK... well in all fairness I was orginally thinking each gun was a stage ( I was wondering how those guys were killing 20 seconds to shoot 4 shot with a shotgun )

meaning I was thinking I could start out at 60 seconds, & go down from there

I was trying to look at it realistically...

still I used to race ATV's well into my "senior" ( senior for ATV racing anyways ) years... been shooting for most of my adult life, have my own rifle & pistol range, I'm an avid handloader, & was able to copy off the 12 stages from last years state championship ( I know they'll change regularly ) but that should help me practice similar types of stages ( something most newbies might not get how to practice ) I'm thinking I'll go & watch one of the 1st this spring ( hopefully practice several times before that ) & maybe go up to shoot the 2nd event they have...

I'm now shopping for a rifle...

BTW... can I load brass shells for the shotgun ??? ( I'd assume I can )

as a budding holster maker, any suggestions off the top for holsters ???

I currently have a stamp tooled double holster rig ( cheaper unit given to me for Christmas a couple years ago )... I'll make a leather shell holder for my belt ( can I make a leather one for the gun ??? )

any other tips you guys want to offer to a newbie ???
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Old January 21, 2011, 12:27 PM   #29
Fingers McGee
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Quote:
BTW... can I load brass shells for the shotgun ??? ( I'd assume I can )
You assume correctly.
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Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce
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Old January 21, 2011, 01:05 PM   #30
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...and the brass shells sound "really kewl" (according to my daughter again) when they shuck outta the SXS.

I think they use large pistol primers, but I'm not positive.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,314.html
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Old January 21, 2011, 05:06 PM   #31
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Noz, you're holding out. You ain't told them about money. Say travelin' to Conyers, GA for the Southeast Regional (since moved to South Carolina). Lets see, Wednesday night through Saturday night is around $400.00 at the Holiday Inn. The three bottles of Dickel ran around $38.00 each. Fuel for the diesel was about $300.00. Twelve miles to the gallon pulling the trailer. Steaks and drinks each night runs about $75.00 a night. Gotta pick up a new hat for around $200.00. The turquoise necklace for the wife ran about $70.00. Add some more for some Silver Bullets. Well you can see what I mean.

Some years back I would talk to someone about equipment for a long time. I changed to a simple question. "Can you afford to pay almost $2000.00 for just your guns?" You could see the glaze come over most of 'em.

Ramblins from a guy who would give almost anything to be thirty years old and starting in cowboy (with money in my pocket).

I had the most fun in my life travelin' and shooting cowboy. As you have been told, you will never meet a more hospitable group. I have participated in a number of shooting disciplines but Cowboy is the best. I was/am ate up with it. I participated from 2000 to about 2007.

This is/was my guncart. Called the Fluffymobile. My nickname (not my alias) is Fluffy .Long story.



The FluffyHauler is in the background. Thats a E350 Ford 6.0 diesel to your right. The Chevy 15 passenger 350 couldn't hack it.

Double Aught, how long you been shooting?

Looking at cowboy, one would think it is easy. Nope. Unless you have shot a match or two, you ain't got a clue.

Forget about power factors. Join, shoot, and then start your campaign.

To be real competitive you have to have the desire to do what it takes. Practice, practice, practice. And not just shooting. How to draw. Can you close your eyes, hit the gun at the sound of the buzzer, fire five rounds fast (I don't care if you hit something) and with eyes still closed, hit the holster with that gun while you are pulling the other pistol, transfer to the shooting hand and fire five more.
Firearms transitions. Never let idle moments occur during a stage. You and your hands and your feet are always moving.
You saw the videos. Awesome ain't it.

Is it Saturday yet?
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Old January 21, 2011, 05:12 PM   #32
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Magnum Wheel Fan, go to some matches. Real low like, mention to someone you would like try some rifles. Too loud and you will be buried.

#3 Marlin
#2 1866 Winchester (replica)
#1 1873 Winchester (replica)

I am aware what they cost.

If you are TRULY competitive, get 38s.
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Old January 21, 2011, 05:17 PM   #33
Red Cent
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Noz, you're holding out. You ain't told them about money. Say travelin' to Conyers, GA for the Southeast Regional (since moved to South Carolina). Lets see, Wednesday night through Saturday night is around $400.00 at the Holiday Inn. The three bottles of Dickel ran around $38.00 each. Fuel for the diesel was about $300.00. Twelve miles to the gallon pulling the trailer. Steaks and drinks each night runs about $75.00 a night. Gotta pick up a new hat for around $200.00. The turquoise necklace for the wife ran about $70.00. Add some more for some Silver Bullets. Well you can see what I mean.

Some years back I would talk to someone about equipment for a long time. I changed to a simple question. "Can you afford to pay almost $2000.00 for just your guns?" You could see the glaze come over most of 'em.

Ramblins from a guy who would give almost anything to be thirty years old and starting in cowboy (with money in my pocket).

I had the most fun in my life travelin' and shooting cowboy. As you have been told, you will never meet a more hospitable group. I have participated in a number of shooting disciplines but Cowboy is the best. I was/am ate up with it. I participated from 2000 to about 2007.

This is/was my guncart. Called the Fluffymobile. My nickname (not my alias) is Fluffy .Long story.



The FluffyHauler is in the background. Thats a E350 Ford 6.0 diesel to your right. The Chevy 15 passenger 350 couldn't hack it.

Double Aught, how long you been shooting?

Looking at cowboy, one would think it is easy. Nope. Unless you have shot a match or two, you ain't got a clue.

Forget about power factors. Join, shoot, and then start your campaign.

To be real competitive you have to have the desire to do what it takes. Practice, practice, practice. And not just shooting. How to draw. Can you close your eyes, hit the gun at the sound of the buzzer, fire five rounds fast (I don't care if you hit something) and with eyes still closed, hit the holster with that gun while you are pulling the other pistol, transfer to the shooting hand and fire five more.
Firearms transitions. Never let idle moments occur during a stage. You and your hands and your feet are always moving.
You saw the videos. Awesome ain't it.

Is it Saturday yet?
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Old January 21, 2011, 08:48 PM   #34
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I'm coming for your badge, Dillon!

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Old January 21, 2011, 10:53 PM   #35
Red Cent
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HA!!! You think you have a handful !!!













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Old January 22, 2011, 07:28 AM   #36
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HOT DAM! Were do I sign up Red Cent?
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Old January 22, 2011, 09:44 AM   #37
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Two pair wins every time!

But, then again...



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Old January 23, 2011, 07:42 PM   #38
fal308
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Magnum Wheel Man, for leather ideas pick up the book Packing Iron - Gunleather of the Frontier West by Richard C Rattenbury. This is a great book with lots of pictures.
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Old January 23, 2011, 11:50 PM   #39
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SASS Cowboys

I have shot Cowboy on and off for the last 5 Years and have loved every
minute of it. Picking your Alias is part of being a SASS Cowboy.
Once everybody learns your Alias you have lost your real name to all your Pards. I am Hagen to everybody now.
I shoot 45 Colt Guns cause thats what my cousin Festus Hagen carried in all his movies.
Come on out to a Match , if you don't have what you need one of us will
get it for you. We usually have some good cookin to share also
Always Remember:
"Don't squat with your spurs on."
"Always take a good look at what you're about to eat. It's not so important to know what it is, but it's good to know what it was."
"Always drink your whiskey with your gun hand, to show your friendly intentions."
"Never try to dry a wet pair of jeans in the oven."

Double Ought Hagen
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Old January 24, 2011, 10:04 AM   #40
Magnum Wheel Man
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awesome pics & suggestions guys...

got a couple more questions...

my local mentor ( not a cowboy ), but retired gun smith, tool & die guy, & life long bullet caster & reloader... suggested I get a 45 Colt rifle, because my revolvers are 45 Colt... ( that way I'd only have to carry one cartridge, rather than 2 different ones )( personally I do shoot some 357, & that was my 1st gun, so over the years, I've accumulated probably 1500 - 357 & 38 special cases ) but now there are so many other intersting cartridges to shoot, so I rarely shoot my 357's anymore, so I was thinking about a 357 mag lever gun, to make use of some of those cases... ( if I was going to start shooting "cowboy" I'd have to pick up at least another 500 - 45 Colt cases ) thoughts ???

also I don't currently load shotgun shells, & don't have room to start, since my loading bench has also crossed over to my leather working bench as well... that's why I was thinking about doing brass shells... until I get to that point, are there cowboy loads commercially available for the 12 ga ??? mine is an old fluid steel barrel double with rebounding firing pins, & rabbit hammers, that has been shortened to "coach length", so even though it has the fluid steel barrels, I'm going to want reasonably light loads in that gun...

... even before I was seriously looking at doing cowboy, I had been looking at making a leather 4 or 6 shell holder that would mount to the forearm of the shotgun... would it be legal for the shells to be mounted on the shotgun ??? even though in thinking about it, the belt mounted shell holder would likely be faster... but curious if I can build the shell holder for the "coach" & use it in cowboy ???

... side matches... I have a collection of original spur trigger revolvers, & am customizing a Ruger Montado into a pocket / belly gun... I have several S&W 32 S&W spur triggers ( one I actually use for CCW ) & several 38 S&W spur triggers ( again one I also use for CCW ) what kinds of fun can a guy have with these antique S&W's & my new Ruger belly gun ???

BTW... RED... I didn't know modern "mules" would be allowed... here's mine... ( folding chairs mount to the aluminum diamond plate roof for spectating )



I figured I'd have to use my "lil wooden wagon" I built for my wife's cousins muzzle loader shoot to haul guns & coolers, etc... it's all wood ( including the wheels ) it's held together with square head nails, & blind screwed for reinforcement... pulls with a rope, & was built from wood stored in a shed for a long time that was all chewed up by the rodents, so it looks like it was straight out of the 1800's
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Old January 24, 2011, 10:55 AM   #41
Magnum Wheel Man
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I went through Midway's website "cowboy" & found the dies & shell holder to load the brass shells, but did not find commercial cowboy loads... ??? is there a source for already loaded shells until I can get started on the brass shells ??? I see Buffalo Arms has black powder shells, but no smokeless powder shells...

I also didn't remember seeing a specification for shot size or charges for the shot shells... I can go back to their website & look again, but would appreciate any suggestions there as well
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Old January 24, 2011, 11:24 AM   #42
Noz
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I'll answer a few of your questions:

45 Colt rifle. It's always easier to load for one cartridge rather than several. The 45 Colt was never chambered in any of the old rifles. It seems to have difficulty expanding, under cowboy loads, enough to seal the chamber and prevent blowback. You'll have to talk to some who do shoot them for particulars.

Shot gun shells must be carried "on your body" not on the gun. Shell belts unsecured bandeleros, belt slides all work well. My personal choice is an 8 shell slide on a plain belt. The shells are held in 2 shell pockets to make it easier to grab two to load the SxS.

The shotgun you have will work well. I'd have the barrels checked then shoot it. The SASS rule on shot size is #4 or smaller. A lot of ranges have initiated #6 or smaller and some #7 1/2 or smaller. 8s or 9s will work quite well.

Mule: If you are handicapped then go for it. No rule against it however the clubs that allow unlimited use of them either have a LOT of room or they have unhappy shooters that try to walk around the traffic jams. I don't like them.

You can make a portable(bolt to the bench) loading stand for pistols rifle and shotgun. Paying retail will get really old, really fast.

Sounds like you are ready to go.
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Old January 24, 2011, 12:27 PM   #43
Tanker6
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Noz nailed most of it, but I'm chime in about a couple of things you mentioned MWM.

I chose 38 special over 45 for two reasons. First, my 13 y/o is shooting with me and the lower recoil was attractive. The other thing, which may apply to you, is that loading boat-loads of 38 is cheaper in the long run in powder and bullet components. I agree with Noz that loading for one caliber is infinitely easier, however, but that's something else for you to consider.

As for "store bought" shotgun ammo, (again, in consideration of my 13 y/o) my store loads are the Winchester AA "Low Recoil/Low Noise" variety. She's spoiled on those after our first 5-6 shoots, so I guess when I start reloading shotgun, I'll have to replicate that load. It really is a "non-event" to shoot if you've ever shot anything else out of a shotgun. I've found these fairly available at Wal-Mart, Gander and Academy (if that info helps).

I've recently acquired a MEC 650 in "less than fair" condition that I'm putting back together, so I'm saving my hulls in anticipation.
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Old January 24, 2011, 01:07 PM   #44
Magnum Wheel Man
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Thanks for the replys guys... nope not handicapped ( although I might have been called names before ) I guess I never honestly thought about bring "my mule" but maybe my wooden wagon described above would help tote "lead" around...

thanks for the suggestions on the shotgun stuff ( I have many, but rarely shoot much more than .410 anymore )

looks like one of my next projects will be a shell belt holder & ordering 50 or so brass 12 ga shells ( I'm hoping to load all my stuff at home, so I can take in more of the whole scene, & not be stuck reloading during the event )

any comments on the side matches with the single action pocket guns ???

BTW... check both my 1st choice & 2nd for SASS names, & neither was taken, so I'll be registering there soon
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Old January 24, 2011, 03:45 PM   #45
Magnum Wheel Man
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ooops... found a conflict with my Montados I think... from the SASS handbook...

Quote:
No portion of the grip frame may be checkered, stippled, serrated or otherwise modified to
constitute a grip enhancement.
my pair of consecutive serialed Montados are very early manufacture, where the front of the grip frame has vertical grooves machined into it...

( I think I might have read about this before ??? )

do I need to polish out those grooves, so the grip frame is smooth ??? my newer Montado that I bought to put the birdshead grip frame on for my belly gun has a smooth grip frame... so maybe the best bet would to be to order another smooth grip frame & save my 2 grooved frames to keep with the revolvers ???

your guys suggestions would be greatly appreciated
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Old January 25, 2011, 03:01 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum Wheel Man
I went through Midway's website "cowboy" & found the dies & shell holder to load the brass shells, but did not find commercial cowboy loads... ???
Now I understand, post #47.

Last edited by arcticap; January 25, 2011 at 12:44 PM.
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Old January 25, 2011, 07:39 AM   #47
Magnum Wheel Man
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sorry... maybe I wasn't that clear... I can load my own 45 Colt ( have cast bullets & Trailboss powder on hand already )... I was more looking for some sort of Cowboy load for the Shottie, since I don't currently load shot gun shells, & my shotgun I'd use is actually almost of period, as far as age...

... TANKER suggested the low noise / low recoil Winchester... that's likely what I'll start out with, until I see if I want to try loading brass shells...
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Old January 25, 2011, 10:40 AM   #48
Magnum Wheel Man
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think these would be Ok for an old double in Cowboy competition ???

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=424753
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Old January 25, 2011, 12:34 PM   #49
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Those are probably ok (I've never shot 'em), but I will point out that the muzzle velocity listed on those is quite a bit higher (1200 v. 980).

http://www.winchester.com/Products/s...s/AA12FL8.aspx

I don't remember exactly where I read it, but there was a bunch of skeet shooters griping about the Winchester loads noted above because they were so slow that they had trouble adjusting their lead on the target birds. In the circumstances that we shoot CAS, I found that to be a "plus" .

Looks like Cheaper Than Dirt and Midway are either out or don't sell these shells. I did find them at Gander Mtn online and Bass Pro Shops:

http://www.gandermountain.com/modper...2&merchID=4006

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/st..._SearchResults

I normally buy them at my local Academy, Wal-Mart or Gander off the shelf for $7.50-8.50/box.
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